Has Marvel gone too far

[maninthechair]

I normally don't post on this site (only the movies but just had a thought to share). Does anyone else think that Marvel is going too far to try and get sales? The stories are cool but they are stripping away from the characters in my opinion. Change is always good but there are some things you can't undo. Off the top of my head:

• Spiderman has unmasked
• Wolverine's origin is being untold
• Prof X is an ******* that shoots people.

It just seems that they are taking away from the fundemental characters to increase sales. Spidey's secret identiity was a core part to his character. Wolverine was the mysterious bad ass. After Origin he became a guy that was a ***** as a kid and accidentally killed some chick. Prof X was the equivilant of Malcom X in the Marvel Universe. A peaceful protester hoping for equal rights.... Just food for thought.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I think you mean Professor X was the equivalent of Martin Luther King, Jr. Malcolm X wasn't a pacifist.

 

[maninthechair]

My bad I was thinking of Malcom X vs. Martin Luther King = Magneto vs. Prof X

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, I figured. I'm not a big fan of Professor X's fall into moral ambiguity, myself. But I don't read X-Men comics anymore, so what do I care? Spider-Man's unmasking isn't a big deal; it'll be back to normal as soon as sales slip.

 

[Darthphere]

I really dont care about any of those things. Spider-Man's reveal will probably never be brought up again after a year. Wolverine's origin isnt importnat to me at all and Professor X will find redemption in Uncanny.

 

[maninthechair]

Yeah, I figured. I'm not a big fan of Professor X's fall into moral ambiguity, myself. But I don't read X-Men comics anymore, so what do I care? Spider-Man's unmasking isn't a big deal; it'll be back to normal as soon as sales slip.

I don't know how they can really do it though. Once it's revealed, it's revealed. I personally think this was done to set up killing off MJ.

 

[Fading]

Ya Magneto = Malcom X, Prof X = Martin Luther King Jr.

I don't think too far, reason I say that is because comics have always done this. Now days it's things like good guys doing bad guy things, or totally uncharacteristic things. But it's always been like that to a degree, sales slip and they do something major for shock value to get everyone's attention. Not sure how many times characters have died, hero's have become villains, and villains hero's, and characters done complete 180's. I mean Pym became a wife beater and villain for a bit, Jean Grey/Dark Pheonix killed 1 billion ppl (she cared deeply for life even if it was the Pheonix influence), Colossus joined Magneto, and so on.

That's not to say it doesn't suck, I prefered a mysterious Logan, and I would have prefered his name stayed Logan, possibly a better back ground. It has to happen eventually tho, progress needs to happen to keep things interesting, just depends on which writers in place when it happens .

 

[PhotoJones]

i'm tired of people forgetting that marvel is a damn business. and like any business, their one concern is making a profit. plain and simple.

used to be, making a profit was releasing 8 varient covers per issue, new costumes every other month, and the clone saga.

recently, fans have matured a bit, and making a profit means putting out solid stories, with big name talent. i think civil war places under this umbrella. it's thought provoking, and i think most will agree, a pretty damn good read. also, wolverine can only go on so long before the mystery grows thin. while, i wasn't a fan of origin, it was well written and well drawn (marvel's current way of profit-making)...

so, is marvel going to far? i don't think so. i'm not afraid of change. so long as it's entertaining change that's drawn pretty.

 

[Mr. Walters]

Joey Q said that whatever is happening now in the Marvel universe will stay forever. No mind wipes or crap like that. Anyone actually believe him?

 

[Grim Goblin]

Joey Q said that whatever is happening now in the Marvel universe will stay forever. No mind wipes or crap like that. Anyone actually believe him?

you mean like when he said that "dead means dead" ?

 

[PhotoJones]

Joey Q said that whatever is happening now in the Marvel universe will stay forever. No mind wipes or crap like that. Anyone actually believe him?

i believe it'll stay the way it's going until something comes along to take it further, or in a new direction. but no, i don't think they'll completely erase what's happening currently.

 

[Kotagg]

you mean like when he said that "dead means dead" ?

Well...so far, it remains true, except for possibly Hawkeye.

 

[Harlekin]

Well...so far, it remains true, except for possibly Hawkeye.

Colossus
Psylocke
Bucky

Do I really need to go on?

 

[BrianWilly]

Magneto. Northstar. Why is Hawkeye a "possibly"? He was "definitely" back by the end of House of M.

Marvel went too far a long time ago in terms of taking these characters away from their fundamental selves. They can't look back further than a few months -- a year at tops -- in finding identity and direction for a character, because paying too much attention to a characters' history would interfere with the fact that they have to shocking and EXTREME in order to generate sales.

 

[gildea]

Prof X has always been pretty morally ambiguous.

He definetly is not MLK as he is under no circumstances a paificst.

 

[November Rain]

I personally don't mind the change, as long as the pressure from fans isn't so great that they always have to go back.

no matter how big and crazy a change is, as long as it is the basis for a good few decades of solid writing, then i can't see any problems with it.

I think as fans, we have to hold a partial responsibility for the way things are at the moment for wanting our characters to pretty much be the same as they were in their origin stories to a large extent.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Prof X has always been pretty morally ambiguous.

He definetly is not MLK as he is under no circumstances a paificst.

Well, he was never a direct analogue to MLK, but his philosophy vs. Magneto's had the basic earmarks of MLK vs. Malcolm X. The only real difference is that he recognized a need for some kind of combat measures to ensure his and humanity's defense from others.

Still, despite forming the inherently violent X-Men, I don't see how he was really morally ambiguous before the retcons of Deadly Genesis, the Illuminati, and other recent stories.

 

[Harlekin]

Well, he was never a direct analogue to MLK, but his philosophy vs. Magneto's had the basic earmarks of MLK vs. Malcolm X. The only real difference is that he recognized a need for some kind of combat measures to ensure his and humanity's defense from others.

Still, despite forming the inherently violent X-Men, I don't see how he was really morally ambiguous before the retcons of Deadly Genesis, the Illuminati, and other recent stories.

Onslaught.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

That was from Magneto's corruption. Onslaught's regarded as a different being from Chuck altogether now, anyway.

 

[gildea]

Still, despite forming the inherently violent X-Men, I don't see how he was really morally ambiguous before the retcons of Deadly Genesis, the Illuminati, and other recent stories.

Just off the top of me head

-pretending to be dead to his students,
-using his mutant powers in school to read his teachers minds,
-reading his classmates minds to gain avantages in sports
-pretending to be powerless to his xmen and sending them to fight magneto (!) as part of a 'test'

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Fair enough. I'd count the middle two out because they were from his youth and everybody f***s something up when they're young. The first and last are pretty obnoxious no matter how you look at it, though.

 

[Harlekin]

That was from Magneto's corruption. Onslaught's regarded as a different being from Chuck altogether now, anyway.

There's still the whole 'Xavier is a perv thing' and Gildea added some good ones. I made a little list a while ago, but Xavier really has been a jerk from the beginning.

 

[maninthechair]

i'm tired of people forgetting that marvel is a damn business. and like any business, their one concern is making a profit. plain and simple.

used to be, making a profit was releasing 8 varient covers per issue, new costumes every other month, and the clone saga.

recently, fans have matured a bit, and making a profit means putting out solid stories, with big name talent. i think civil war places under this umbrella. it's thought provoking, and i think most will agree, a pretty damn good read. also, wolverine can only go on so long before the mystery grows thin. while, i wasn't a fan of origin, it was well written and well drawn (marvel's current way of profit-making)...

so, is marvel going to far? i don't think so. i'm not afraid of change. so long as it's entertaining change that's drawn pretty.

Yes Marvel is a business but every business decision has an effect. It was successfully run as a business with big name talent with solid stories rather than shocking ones. The killing off (or resurrection) of a character was something signifigant. Now it happens ever couple of months and no one really cares. Long term, I don't think they are making good decisions

 

[Badfish40oz]

i'm tired of people forgetting that marvel is a damn business. and like any business, their one concern is making a profit. plain and simple.

So what? What is with people on the internet always bringing this up? Whether it's with movies, music, or anything, somebody always has to say this. What's your point? Should we not criticize a company or it's product because they're a business and it's only trying to make profit?

Used to be, they made a good product to make a profit. Good product=money. The two were interchangable.

I'm no anti-Marvel guy. I'm loving Civil War. I'm just tired of seeing this empy suit argument all over the place lately. As if any kind of crap in the media is alright because it's "just business." It's this attitude these corporations have put out there which is the reason hardly anyone cares about "piracy" on the internet. I dont' care about "stealing" a crappy movie off the internet if the only defense is "it's a business." Well, F-U then.

 

[Sloth7d]

Joey Q said that whatever is happening now in the Marvel universe will stay forever. No mind wipes or crap like that. Anyone actually believe him?

Spidermans identity will be retconned eventually.
Just give it time.