He's The Secret Weapon... David Ayer IS the Director and Script Writer

[Marathon]

And to add a caveat, extrapolating from the past is not 100% infallible either... e.g. Brad Bird dropped the ball badly on Tomorrowland. It was a both critical and box office failure.

What all of this is making me think is that the script is still the king. It needs to be good for the film to have a chance to be good.

 

[harlequinade]

Ayer's unfortunate tweet about making films for people who love movies is worse than this F Marvel thing that is really starting to travel all over the media now

 

[FunkMiller]

What all of this is making me think is that the script is still the king. It needs to be good for the film to have a chance to be good.

Always has been, always will be, and you don't get one trying to catch up as fast as possible with another company's strategy.....

 

[Spider-Fan]

And to add a caveat, extrapolating from the past is not 100% infallible either... e.g. Brad Bird dropped the ball badly on Tomorrowland. It was a both critical and box office failure.

What all of this is making me think is that the script is still the king. It needs to be good for the film to have a chance to be good.

That is just common sense. The script is the blueprint of the film. If you have a bad blueprint for a building, eventually it is going to crumble to the ground. You cannot salvage a poor screenplay. You can make a bad movie from a great script, but you cannot make a great movie from a bad script.

 

[dark_b]

hahhaha yeah yeah this man who directed Fury,Sabotage,End of Watch,Street Kings and Harsh Times plus wrotte Training Day wrotte a comicbook Suicide Squad movie that ends

Spoiler

with a big white energy ''portal'' end of the world scenario where the villain is Enchantress and her brother . hahah yeah right.

its so obvious that Ayer wrotte the first draft where the third act villain is Enchantress and Joker. not working together but Joker coming there to rescui harley and getting involved. its so obvious that there was no end of the world danger. i bet my life on that. but noooooooooooo WB had to push him to add a fake CGI brother next to Enchantress and .............. f.. it up.

 

[Jekecy]

This script and story was a goddamn mess. Studio meddling aside, the plot was thin enough for me to know this existed at the very start. There's literally no second act, which I don't mind (see Raid and Dredd), but at least have some semblance of writing competence when developing your characters or progressing the story.

As a viewer I'm incredibly lenient on simple narratives, but this took LAZINESS to another level. Kudos to the cast because if it weren't for them this film would've sunk deep into Earth's core.

I don't know what happened, but this is not the David Ayer I was expecting.

 

[The Shape]

This script and story was a goddamn mess. Studio meddling aside, the plot was thin enough for me to know this existed at the very start. There's literally no second act, which I don't mind (see Raid and Dredd), but at least have some semblance of writing competence when developing your characters or progressing the story.

As a viewer I'm incredibly lenient on simple narratives, but this took LAZINESS to another level. Kudos to the cast because if it weren't for them this film would've sunk deep into Earth's core.

I don't know what happened, but this is not the David Ayer I was expecting.

It doesn't necessarily seem like its plot and pacing issues started at the script level at all. All signs seem to place blame on the editing and eventual addition of reshoot footage. It literally seems like the film was shorted by cutting at least 15-25 minutes of entire scenes or bits of scenes, rearranged, and then injected with a few new scene and bits -- some of which were seemingly unnecessary or for comedy, and others which took the core plot elements in a different direction than originally intended.

There are descriptions of scenes that were cut and it's quite apparent. The biggest reason it seems like there's no second act is because literal chunks of the film were changed or cut. The reason why the narrative comes off as simple is because some of the more complex, mature moments, character beats, and plot twists were removed, in favor of a lighter, more generic story.

It's pretty ****ed up.

 

[Jekecy]

It doesn't necessarily seem like its plot and pacing issues started at the script level at all. All signs seem to place blame on the editing and eventual addition of reshoot footage. It literally seems like the film was shorted by cutting at least 15-25 minutes of entire scenes or bits of scenes, rearranged, and then injected with a few new scene and bits -- some of which were seemingly unnecessary or for comedy, and others which took the core plot elements in a different direction than originally intended.

There are descriptions of scenes that were cut and it's quite apparent. The biggest reason it seems like there's no second act is because literal chunks of the film were changed or cut. The reason why the narrative comes off as simple is because some of the more complex, mature moments, character beats, and plot twists were removed, in favor of a lighter, more generic story.

It's pretty ****ed up.

I've seen the purported list of deleted scenes. They don't seem like entire sequences which would make up a second act, just extensions of scenes already in place.

As down as I am on WB right now, I can't at all believe they took out such significant bits of story (we're talking at least 30 minutes here). The downtown set piece is long enough in the movie where I think it was always intended to be the rest of the story after the intros.

 

[Guts]

hahhaha yeah yeah this man who directed Fury,Sabotage,End of Watch,Street Kings and Harsh Times plus wrotte Training Day wrotte a comicbook Suicide Squad movie that ends

Spoiler

with a big white energy ''portal'' end of the world scenario where the villain is Enchantress and her brother . hahah yeah right.

its so obvious that Ayer wrotte the first draft where the third act villain is Enchantress and Joker. not working together but Joker coming there to rescui harley and getting involved. its so obvious that there was no end of the world danger. i bet my life on that. but noooooooooooo WB had to push him to add a fake CGI brother next to Enchantress and .............. f.. it up.

Spoiler

Enchantress did have a brother in the comics. It's not like that was something he later made up.

 

[The Shape]

I've seen the purported list of deleted scenes. They don't seem like entire sequences which would make up a second act, just extensions of scenes already in place.

As down as I am on WB right now, I can't at all believe they took out such significant bits of story (we're talking at least 30 minutes here). The downtown set piece is long enough in the movie where I think it was always intended to be the rest of the story after the intros.

Are kidding me? Look at what they did to BVS.

Some deleted bits and scenes might not sound like they'd make a dramatic difference on paper, but within the film itself, the bits that were deleted could have changed the flow of the movie, it's sense of time, allowed for more clearly defined "acts", different placement of emotional beats, scenes would have more time to breathe, etc. it's not only the full scenes getting cut that can disrupt the film, but all the tiny shreds and bits of scenes that they trimed all throughout.

 

[Jekecy]

Are kidding me? Look at what they did to BVS.

Some deleted bits and scenes might not sound like they'd make a dramatic difference on paper, but within the film itself, the bits that were deleted could have changed the flow of the movie, it's sense of time, allowed for more clearly defined "acts", different placement of emotional beats, scenes would have more time to breathe, etc. it's not only the full scenes getting cut that can disrupt the film, but all the tiny shreds and bits of scenes that they trimed all throughout.

You're not wrong about any of that, but we're not exactly comparing apples to apples here. The BvS edits were more damaging for the simple fact its story was so big, any bit of cuts or shuffling were going to severely mess up the flow. It's more comparable to TDKR, another similarly large epic with several moving pieces going on at once.

Again the downtown sequence went on for far too long and with too much content for me to believe it was only meant for the third act or was structurally supported by other important narrative sequences. When the story is that thin at 2 hours length, there was never much there to begin with. That or WB pulled off the biggest hackjob ever known in blockbuster history.

 

[Greens]

Both the deleted scenes and the script hurt the movie. I agree that the Midway City part of the story should not have been this long. There should have been a different, less important mission before the big finale in Midway.

 

[The Infernal]

Poor story, dialogue saved by the actors performance IMO. Still a fun movie, but with big flaws.

 

[ManWithNoName18]

Question

If we get a sequel, Anyone want to see Ayer back at the helm? Or give someone else a shot? And given BTS stuff do you think Ayer would want to come back?

 

[ManWithNoName18]

If be fine either way, Ayer has his highs and lows as a writer/director. But I think stuff like the trailer company re editing the movie, and being forced to make a script in six weeks didn't help the movie out. And that was more on WB than Ayer.

 

[Greenlite]

I would want him back and let him have full control, since he proved his part of the movie (characters, 2-3rd acts) were well received and the first act done by WB was slammed by the majority.

He has a script ready so if they work out a deal then he might stay, give him Bright and other projects he'll be happy.

Depends on how much power Johns has as well, if I were him I'd wait till WW and if the same thing repeats itself then I'd pull out, but if Johns directs the ship well then stay on.

 

[nogster]

I would want him back and let him have full control, since he proved his part of the movie (characters, 2-3rd acts) were well received and the first act done by WB was slammed by the majority.

He has a script ready so if they work out a deal then he might stay, give him Bright and other projects he'll be happy.

Depends on how much power Johns has as well, if I were him I'd wait till WW and if the same thing repeats itself then I'd pull out, but if Johns directs the ship well then stay on.

I thought the 1st act was fine (albeit rushed and choppily edited) Acts 2 and 3 was where the movie fell apart for me. Boring generic action and awful generic end of world story badly told with poor editing.

 

[Corysxj88]

Let Ayer do SS2 and have Johns overseeing the whole thing.

 

[OutOfBoose]

The secret weapon...

 

[harlequinade]

The secret weapon...

Yeah, of destruction

 

[Micromind]

Poor story, dialogue saved by the actors performance IMO. Still a fun movie, but with big flaws.

Yeah, the cast needs to be commended for their performances, maybe director David Ayer should also be praised for getting good performances from them.

Now, I liked the movie for what it was, it was an entertaining movie with flaws.

But, as we saw from the set pics (before reshoots), the director was going to have Enchantress and her transformed minions take on Suicide Squad in the finale. That was always the plan. Which makes me think that the script was simply not good.

The main premise is not that great, the setup is also not that great, which was always going to result in a mediocre movie, regardless of the fact whether they included / deleted Joker's scenes.

WB should have asked Ayer to rewrite the script and get a better villain for the movie, they rushed it.

 

[Guts]

Yeah, the cast needs to be commended for their performances, maybe director David Ayer should also be praised for getting good performances from them.

Now, I liked the movie for what it was, it was an entertaining movie with flaws.

But, as we saw from the set pics (before reshoots), the director was going to have Enchantress and her transformed minions take on Suicide Squad in the finale. That was always the plan. Which makes me think that the script was simply not good.

The main premise is not that great, the setup is also not that great, which was always going to result in a mediocre movie, regardless of the fact whether they included / deleted Joker's scenes.

WB should have asked Ayer to rewrite the script and get a better villain for the movie, they rushed it.

The finale did look a bit different in the trailers.