History Channel's 'Vikings'

[James]

The actress who plays Princess Judith really acted her butt off in that scene, she did a fantastic job there.

 

[squeekness]

I think that the "forgive me" line is in reference to how Ragnar intends to conquer Paris. He shaved his head and put on a cross; that could mean he plans on infiltrating Paris dressed as a monk.

That scene with Judith is the most disturbing one I've ever seen on this show. At least the blood eagle was mute.

I wonder how Floki and Ragnar will interact with one another from now on. Floki's been insanely loyal but Ragnar can't just forgive Athelstan's murder.

I was wondering if Floki wouldn't be punished in some way. I mean, I didn't think they could just up a kill each other like that. They must have had laws against murder after a fashion.

 

[James]

Another thing I forgot to mention earlier, I really like the way this show skirts the line between mysticism and reality. The 'magic' is never overt, only ever presented in a way that could be seen as otherworldly. The characters instinctively interpret odd things to be messages from their god or gods, Athelstan and the beam of light for example.

It's also left up to the audience to decide whether these things are reality or are indeed signs from beyond. Did Floki really turn into a dog, or was it simply good bit of timing? I really like that the show never outright states it one way or the other.

 

[Marvolo]

The actress who plays Princess Judith really acted her butt off in that scene, she did a fantastic job there.

If King *****ebag hadn't put a stop to it I was gonna have to mute it. I couldn't stand anymore of that. That screaming and wailing was unbearable. How anyone could listen to that and not immediately put a stop to it is beyond me. That bishop needs to be in chains.

As for Floki...

That scene of Ragnar laying Athelstan to rest was so sad. It started out kind of humorous with him saying Athelstan was heavy and "oh, the things I do for you." But him saying they will never meet again because he did not think Athelstan's God would let him into heaven was heartbreaking. Ranger really did love the guy and misses his friend. Athelstan probably could have converted him eventually if Floki hadn't been such an insufferable nuisance.

 

[James]

That bishop needs to be in chains.

The Bishop, and that totally weird monk who came to collect the princess- I hope he shows up again, he was so odd!

 

[StarLord]

''Vikings' Michael Hirst: 'Born Again' death changes Ragnar forever'

Zap2it spoke with "Vikings" creator Michael Hirst about the impact Athelstan's death will have on the king of the Vikings, as well as abroad when the news reaches King Ecbert in Wessex.

At what point did you decide now was the time to end Athelstan's story?
Michael Hirst: What happened was I was working on the Season 3 bible before I started writing the episodes. I realized I had to resolve his issues; I had to resolve his spiritual crisis. Otherwise, I was going to start repeating myself.

I then thought he's coming out of Wessex, he's chosen Ragnar and the Vikings and, in a sense, the Pagan gods over Ecbert, his love for Judith, the fact that he has a child and his Christian past. I thought that's the moment that he should be surprised that God speaks to him. He's spent all this time since he was captured and taken to Kattegat, begging for a sign from God. Because he didn't get one, it made him think God had abandoned him or didn't exist. That made him more open to Paganism and other beliefs.

Then it's amazing, he finds belief again and it brings him joy and relief. There's a logic to that. The next logic was how could he stay living among Pagans? Of course, he can't. Can he somehow get back to England or wander around Scandinavia like a ghost? He can't.

I knew the end would come about halfway through the season, but of course there was a horrifying realization that it meant saying goodbye not only to one of my favorite characters but one of my favorite actors. Telling George that I'd made my mind up about this was awful. In fact, I wrote him a five-page essay explaining the logic and why I felt the need for it. He embraces martyrdom and knows what's going to happen. He's not surprised to see Floki in the room and embraces death. For him, it's a positive experience.

What's interesting is it's the second death in the past three episodes -- the other being Siggy -- that weren't the the brutal affairs you might come to expect from "Vikings."
I've always felt ... it's not precious, but what I've wanted to do in all the battle and fight scenes is to be different and innovative. Usually when you have battle scenes with CGI they're always the same, so we've tried to be inventive.

Similarly, with the death, we're so character-driven in the show that it's very important how main characters die. There's always a narrative to these deaths, which I work on very hard.

Obviously, we don't see Ragnar's immediate reaction. We do see him taking Athelstan to his final resting place, however. At this point what's going through his mind? In the episode he told Athelstan there was nobody he trusted more, and now he's gone.
It's going to have a huge impact psychologically and in other ways. We don't necessarily see that immediately, but certainly when he gets to France. He becomes a slightly different, slightly darker man.

That has to do, in a way, with shaving his head. If you remember Season 1, when Athelstan has spent a little time in Kattegat with Ragnar, he'd been filled with despair and traumatized. One of the things that's traumatized him is the shaved circle on his head that monks have has grown over. So he steals a knife from Ragnar and a bowl of cold water and scrapes, trying to get it back. Ragnar and Lagertha catch him doing it and laugh.

Now, this is Ragnar paying tribute to Athelstan by doing the same thing. It's also a visible sign that he's a changed person, though. What I didn't want to do ... It's not a Western, so I didn't want him to turn around and immediately get the guy. He's clearly going to get the man who did this but that's for the future.

In the immediate aftermath, he's going to mourn his friend and consequently be a lonely figure. It's a desolate thing to happen to him.

Then there's Floki. He feels as if he was called by the gods to do what he did. Now that he's going to see what becomes of Ragnar because of it, is he going to question that decision or have any regrets?
The answer is, "yes." He's divided about it, but his divisions are very deep and they don't come out immediately. If you watch this season, you'll see exactly how he feels about it and it's very emotional. You really get the full impact of that in the final episode.

Jumping over to Wessex, it was also revealed to the public that Athelstan is the father of Judith's child -- Ecbert's grandchild. Ecbert was as close with him as Ragnar, so how will he react to this?
Ecbert loves Athelstan in the same way Ragnar does. Both of these older guys are drawn to the young monk who is very authentic and sincere, yet torn between two faiths. They're both curious guys who recognize that spiritual crisis.

Though, I think Ecbert feels disappointed in Athelstan leaving. Still, he continues to play a big part in Ecbert's life. After all, Athelstan's child is Alfred, who will in time become Alfred the Great -- one of the most famous of all English kings -- who will fight against Ragnar's sons.

Ecbert clearly recognizes there is something special about this young child, so he feels attached to Athelstan through Alfred. Also ... I don't know how to put this without giving it away. Athelstan features in his life once again.

Lastly, after losing two beloved characters in less than a month, are fans going to get a bit of a breather before having to say goodbye to somebody else?
[Laughs] Well, you know, I can't tell you, can I? I can't reassure you or devastate you! You know, it is called "Vikings," bad things happen -- it kind of goes with the territory.

I have to say, that episode was one of the hardest things I've ever had to write, just in emotional terms. Coming to terms myself with the death of a character who started life as a device -- Athelstan was just a means to get a largely Christian audience into a Pagan world. He started as this device and then became an interesting character then he became alive.

To me, all of these characters are alive and I've lived with them for nearly four years. It's a huge wrench for me, an extremely hard thing to do. Thankfully George is still friendly with me.

http://www.zap2it.com/blogs/vikings_michael_hirst_born_again_death_changes_ragnar_forever-2015-03

 

[Loki882]

I wonder how Ecbert is going to react to news of Athelstan's death? Floki had better watch himself. Even if Ragnar won't kill him out of some residual loyalty/Viking brotherhood, Ecbert would have no such qualms.

On a somewhat lighter note, Lagertha is officially the hottest grandmother ever.

 

[Loki882]

I think that the "forgive me" line is in reference to how Ragnar intends to conquer Paris. He shaved his head and put on a cross; that could mean he plans on infiltrating Paris dressed as a monk.

That scene with Judith is the most disturbing one I've ever seen on this show. At least the blood eagle was mute.

I wonder how Floki and Ragnar will interact with one another from now on. Floki's been insanely loyal but Ragnar can't just forgive Athelstan's murder.

See I read the "forgive me" line differently. I think that Ragnar's going to go on a particularly bloody rampage throughout Francia. Lots of death, destruction, and violence (even more so than usual) just to work out his own feelings of grief/anger. And he probably knows that Athelstan wouldn't approve, or at least not it being done in "his name," hence that last line.

 

[squeekness]

See I read the "forgive me" line differently. I think that Ragnar's going to go on a particularly bloody rampage throughout Francia. Lots of death, destruction, and violence (even more so than usual) just to work out his own feelings of grief/anger. And he probably knows that Athelstan wouldn't approve, or at least not it being done in "his name," hence that last line.

This is how I took it as well.

 

[Marvolo]

See I read the "forgive me" line differently. I think that Ragnar's going to go on a particularly bloody rampage throughout Francia. Lots of death, destruction, and violence (even more so than usual) just to work out his own feelings of grief/anger. And he probably knows that Athelstan wouldn't approve, or at least not it being done in "his name," hence that last line.

That's my guess as well. Lots of Christians are going to die in this attack on Francia. Churches will be sacked. Priests and bishops will probably be killed. Ordinary folks who are also christians will be killed. Rape will happen. Ragnar knows that Athelstan (having just rediscovered his faith in Christ before his murder) would not approve of all that. But Ragnar knows that there is no backing out now. Not without him losing his crown. So it's onward and downward.

God, I'm gonna miss Athelstan.

 

[James]

That was a neat interview!

Incidentally, I was thinking today that I'm still not entirely sure exactly why King Ecbert had the settlers slaughtered. What did he stand to gain by doing that? The only thing that occurs to me is that giving the Vikings the land enabled him to use their warriors and secure Mercia -then once he had a bigger kingdom, take back the little piece he'd given away. Was that it? Does that make sense? Seems like a pretty clever scheme.

 

[squeekness]

That was a neat interview!

Incidentally, I was thinking today that I'm still not entirely sure exactly why King Ecbert had the settlers slaughtered. What did he stand to gain by doing that? The only thing that occurs to me it that giving the Vikings the land enabled him to use their warriors and secure Mercia -then once he had a bigger kingdom, take back the little piece he'd given away. Was that it? Does that make sense? Seems like a pretty clever scheme.

This sounds about right to me. After the king got what he wanted, he wasn't about to let that colony get any stronger.

 

[chamber-music]

That was a neat interview!

Incidentally, I was thinking today that I'm still not entirely sure exactly why King Ecbert had the settlers slaughtered. What did he stand to gain by doing that? The only thing that occurs to me is that giving the Vikings the land enabled him to use their warriors and secure Mercia -then once he had a bigger kingdom, take back the little piece he'd given away. Was that it? Does that make sense? Seems like a pretty clever scheme.

Most of the other Lords and farmers of Wessex didn't like the 'pagan' Vikings so the colony was never going to last. King Ecbert just used the colony as a bargaining chip to get them to work for him as mercenaries and capture Mercia.

With the job done and most of the Vikings gone home there was no reason to pretend to support the colony.

 

[James]

A cunning plan indeed!

 

[BestGirl]

Considering what great warrior the Vikings were, it would've been a bad idea to have allowed them a toehold in England. No doubt they would've used it as a springboard to conquer the rest of the country, as happened IRL.

 

[Golgo-13]

That Judith scene

I wonder why they made Judith Alfred's mother instead of Osburh who was the first wife of Æthelwulf and mother of his children?

I hope Floki dies. Floki has been nothing but a whinny b**** the last two seasons.

I think what made it even worst (if that's even possible) is the fact that she had just given birth, so her body was already in a weakened state. I'm surprised she didn't pass out well before the cutting even began!

 

[Marvolo]

I think what made it even worst (if that's even possible) is the fact that she had just given birth, so her body was already in a weakened state. I'm surprised she didn't pass out well before the cutting even began!

Yeah I hadnt even though about that. She would have probably already been hemorrhaging down there to some degree because of tearing during child birth and then they take her straight outside and chop off an ear. In real life she probably would have went into shock.

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

Sometimes I wonder about the editing, in the last episode we see Athelstan killed and then the next scene we saw Ragnar carrying a body, at first I thought it was the old man he killed earlier. The transition was bad.

 

[Siby]

Sometimes I wonder about the editing, in the last episode we see Athelstan killed and then the next scene we saw Ragnar carrying a body, at first I thought it was the old man he killed earlier. The transition was bad.

Thank you! That's exactly what I thought. As I said earlier there was no connection between the scene with Floki striking Athelstan and Ragnar carrying the wrapped corpse.

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

Thank you! That's exactly what I thought. As I said earlier there was no connection between the scene with Floki striking Athelstan and Ragnar carrying the wrapped corpse.

I read on IMDB that Trammel insisted to shoot this scene which was not initially planned, that's maybe why it felt disconnected.

"The things I do for you" .....

 

[James]

I felt it was an odd jump too. It worked ultimately, and the scene was nice, but the cut was awkward.

 

[Vartha]

Finally remembered to upload that 3D/virtual model of Aragnar's Hall
https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=u051ae21c-18e6-4bc5-be14-603f1c24d7cb

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

Aragnar, descendent of Odindur ?

=)

 

[zeroapoc]

The actress who plays Princess Judith really acted her butt off in that scene, she did a fantastic job there.

No doubt!

 

[Drz]

Finally we got to Paris!