How can the DCU upstage the Marvel Cinematic Universe?

[mace1]

The announcement of Captain Marvel was simply a reaction to the leak of the planning of the Wonder Woman movie.

Wonder Woman in other media

DC Extended Universe

Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016)

In October 2013, WB President of Creative Development and Worldwide Production Greg Silverman talked about the possibility of Wonder Woman appearing in Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice alongside both Superman and Batman. On November 7, 2013, Variety reported that Gal Gadot, Élodie Yung and Olga Kurylenko had auditioned for a lead female role, believed to possibly be Wonder Woman. On December 4, 2013, Gal Gadot was cast as Wonder Woman and also signed a three picture deal with the studio which includes Justice League and a solo Wonder Woman film. This film will mark the Amazonian superhero and her secret identity's first live action theatrical appearance. The film's producer Charles Roven revealed to The Hollywood Reporter in an interview that the character will be primarily based on her depiction in The New 52 as a demigod and the daughter of Zeus.

Wonder Woman (2017)

After her appearance as Wonder Woman in Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016), Gal Gadot's second appearance in the role will be a solo Wonder Woman film.It was announced, in October 2014, that Wonder Woman will be released in 2017 as the fourth installment of the DC Extended Universe. On October 23, 2014, The Hollywood Reporter revealed that the studio are looking for female directors to direct the film, and the next day, Forbes reported that the studio had Kathryn Bigelow, Catherine Hardwicke, Mimi Leder, Karyn Kusama, Julie Taymor, Michelle MacLaren and Tricia Brook on the shortlist to direct the film. On November 12, 2014, The Wrap and The Hollywood Reporter reported that MacLaren, Lesli Linka Glatter and Jennifer Kent were the frontrunners to direct the film.On November 24, 2014, it was announced that Michelle MacLaren will direct the film along with Charles Roven, Zack Snyder and Deborah Snyder as producers. On February 20, 2015, Deadline reported that filming will start in Fall 2015 in London, England and Rome, Italy.On April 13, 2015, MacLaren had reportedly left the film, due to "creative differences". The next day, Variety reported that the studio are looking for actors for Steve Trevor with the script being written by Jason Fuchs. On April 15, 2015, The Hollywood Reporter reported that Patty Jenkins will direct the film.In an interview with Entertainment Weekly, Lynda Carter revealed that she would love to be involved with the film. On July 28, 2015, The Wrap reported that Chris Pine was cast as Steve Trevor in the film.Pine subsequently confirmed his casting to French website Premier.fr On August 28, 2015, it was reported that Hoyte van Hoytema will be the cinematographer for the film, though he denied any involvement with the film the following day. Among the film sets are London and the Basilicata region in Southern Italy, in particular the ghost town of Craco, which has been considered as the possible location for the island of Themyscira.

Captain Marvel
Carol Danvers

* In May 2013, the The Hollywood Reporter reported that Marvel Studios had a script for a Ms. Marvel feature. In October 2014, Marvel announced that the film, now titled Captain Marvel, would be released on July 6, 2018. The film was later postponed to November 2, 2018. In April 2015, it was announced that Nicole Perlman and Meg LeFauve would be writing the script.The release date was later postponed to March 8, 2019.

 

[Infinight888]

Now look at the way the whole mythology is approached. Regardless of the quality of the execution, they're clearly going for sci-fi rather than just pure straight fantasy. What they're looking for is to do something most superhero movies don't do, which is to pretend the character exists in our world.

Can we please stop pretending like the real world is this dour and depressing place where no one ever tells jokes, banters or laughs?

Yes, the MCU films might go overboard with the comedy, but Man of Steel overcorrects to the point of being equally unrealistic.

 

[Flint Marko]

Agreed. So often people mistake "gritty and humorless" for "realistic and serious", as if a film that takes a "darker" approach is automatically high art.

 

[Mjölnir]

Since that makes little sense, I think it's pretty clear he misspoke, and is likely attempting to make a statement about a highly trained combatant who now has superpowers VS one with no training.

But he wasn't shown to be highly trained in normal combat either. He didn't stand the shadow of a chance against someone that was genetically created to be a scientist, nor did he fight very different from Superman (take away that he can't fly right away) despite mocking his opponent's fighting style.

I think there's more than just misspeaking to take into consideration when judging Snyder's comment. To me he didn't seem to know what he wanted to do, as I doubt he tried to show those specific things but failed.

 

[The Guard]

There's nowhere in MOS that it states Zor-El was only a scientist. Or that being bred for combat makes Zod perfect.

Zod was clearly a better, faster, more vicious combatant than Superman through much of their combat.

 

[Greens]

Yes, the MCU films might go overboard with the comedy, but Man of Steel overcorrects to the point of being equally unrealistic.

So dour and depressing...

 

[Napoleon]

MoS had humor. It just wasn't shoving gags down your throat every 10 seconds.

 

[Flint Marko]

What humor? All I remember was "he's kind of hot", and that "0 days since last incident" sight gag. None of that works as humor; in fact, the "he's kind of hot" line is pretty awful.
Nolan had a good balance of sprinkling in some light hearted, cheeky lines here and there. They were sold by Michael Caines delivery, which is never a bad thing, but that's a great example of humor that works in an otherwise humorless movie.

 

[Aejej]

I'm referring to the mixed reaction from the casting and the feedback from the fans, obviously no one has seen the movie yet.

You referred to his performance, though, not the casting and resultant approval or disapproval of fans.

 

[Aejej]

MoS had humor. It just wasn't shoving gags down your throat every 10 seconds.

Exactly. It wasn't the "Laugh in...3-2-1 — NOW!" slapstick that dribbles off the Iron Man flicks.

What humor? All I remember was "he's kind of hot", and that "0 days since last incident" sight gag. None of that works as humor; in fact, the "he's kind of hot" line is pretty awful.

You've mentioned that line before, but for whatever reason, you missed the joke that arrived a moment before it — Swanwick delivering a wholesale reprimand to the Last Son of Krypton: "Are you stupid??!!

Well, I thought it was pretty durned funny.

 

[Flint Marko]

Didn't he say "are you effin' stupid?" I found that line to be, well... "effin' stupid".

 

[TeeKay]

So dour and depressing...

2 scenes is what you use to prove your point come on. The whole tone of MoS was just joyless, not the tone for a hero who's considered the symbol of hope.

 

[Boy Scout]

I wouldn't say the movie was joyless, but you could argue that it took itself a little too seriously.

 

[Aejej]

The whole tone of MoS was just joyless, not the tone for a hero who's considered the symbol of hope.

I could've sworn Kal looked pretty freakin' happy when he finally got the hang of flying.

 

[Napoleon]

I swear, unless a comic-book adaptation looks like a children's coloring book, then ya'll just write it off.

 

[The Batman]

Its so funny seeing how petty people get while defending MOS.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

Some felt MoS was joyless, others didn't. You're not going to change how someone felt watching a movie.

What's next?

 

[TeeKay]

I was talking about overall tone not moments. It was a problem for me. The ending was quite jarring considering what had preceded it. Suddenly the film wants to end on a more hopeful and happy ending which was just sort of "eh". It was unearned imo.

 

[Deadshot]

Humour is not a requirement for a good movie. It all depends on what the movie is trying to accomplish. Is it trying to be a kid friendly action packed flick? Is it trying to be frightening? Is it trying to be tragic? It all depends. Certainly, a little of humour, as long as it is well executed, can fit pretty much any type of movie, but that's not easy to do and doesn't happen too often.

Now, whether or not Man Of Steel was humourless and joyless, that's up to your personal opinion. There aren't many things more subjective than humour. Personally, i liked the truck scene. I thought it was funny. A lot of people think it lacks humour, but those people are living in an era filled with movies where characters are consitently trying to "pwnd" each others with corny one liners. Almost every dialogue consists in a game of words where one characters is trying to be more witty than the others. To me, although with some exceptions, this is not necessarily "good humour", since it often feels forced played out, and quite frankly, not very smart. It's a very juvenile type of humour.

Now, between a movie where the characters feel the obligation to be funny and "cool" every 15 seconds and a movie that sticks to a more dramatic and tragic tone, maybe i would choose the second one, because comedy is something that's very difficult to get it right, especially when you're also busy telling a story that tries to involve tragedy. Some movies just try to be many things at the same time. That's why some lines from The Avengers, to me, sounded like something an average teenager could have written.

Man Of Steel had the opportunity to create a few lighter scenes that could have made the movie a little more enjoyable for people who have a hard time taking superhero movies seriously. I'm not one of those people, so the lack of humour didn't bother me one bit. The movie was still lackluster in some areas and didn't meet my expectations. It's still a good action movie though.

 

[TeeKay]

And the dialogue from MoS was any better? That was easily the worst part of MoS. Goyer sucks at dialogue. Only one has to look at Faora's dumb line about "evolution". Made absolutely no sense. Whedon is a far superior screen writer than Goyer. Visions talk with Ultron at the end was beautiful and felt very Superman-esque for some reason.

 

[Batmannerism]

I could've sworn Kal looked pretty freakin' happy when he finally got the hang of flying.

Agreed.

I struggle with folks who found MOS joyless. Yeah, it was much much more serious than previous Superman films, but so what ? I've always given big props to Snyder and Nolan for at least doing something different - I mean we've seen what happens when the Donner films get reproduced, minus any kind of charm, it's called Superman Returns......and it sucks.

Anyway, MOS wasn't overly humourous but had lots of lighter moments, some of which others have pointed out, and moments of real warmth.

And a few hugs here and there........

"Nice suit son."

Still, I'm not going to change anyone's opinion. Just sayin....

 

[Deadshot]

And the dialogue from MoS was any better? That was easily the worst part of MoS. Goyer sucks at dialogue. Only one has to look at Faora's dumb line about "evolution". Made absolutely no sense. Whedon is a far superior screen writer than Goyer. Visions talk with Ultron at the end was beautiful and felt very Superman-esque for some reason.

I don't think this is a contest between which movie has better lines. Frankly, neither movie should be too proud about its writting.

You find the moment between Vision and Ultron "beautiful". I find it dull because neither character meant anything for me. The movie didn't do enough to deserve my concern for the characters. They're both pretty weak in pretty much all aspects.

To me the moments between Clark and his parents were all much better conceived than any attempt at sentimentalism in any Avengers movie. I truly think that last scene between Clark and his mother is absolutely beautiful, and that's part of the reason why i prefer MOS to The Avengers, which felt pretty shallow compared to MOS.

Now, i'm not a fan of The Avengers, but i'm also not a fan of Superman. Both MOS and The Avengers are flawed in many different aspects and are very far from being masterpieces, IMHO. MOS, at times, really feels like it was written by someone who is trying to hard to be smart and deep, but just didn't have it in him. It kind of felt a little bit like a less talented artist trying to emulate Nolan. The Avengers felt like it was written by someone with zero emotional intelligence. Also, Whedon is not an interesting filmmaker, IMO. He can't create images in the same memorable way Snyder can, and that's a big part of filmmaking.

 

[Flint Marko]

Superman Returns made numerous choices that I think were poor, but in terms of basic story structure and characterization, I find it to be head and shoulders above MoS. The latter relied far too much on "tell don't show" storytelling and assumed empathy for me to connect with almost any character; the only moment that worked for me, and worked pretty well, was when young Clark was struggling with his powers.
Saying the Avengers was written by someone with "zero emotional intelligence" befuddles me. There's better writing in any given five minutes of either Avengers film than anything in Man of Steel.

I was talking about overall tone not moments. It was a problem for me. The ending was quite jarring considering what had preceded it. Suddenly the film wants to end on a more hopeful and happy ending which was just sort of "eh". It was unearned imo.

Thank you for bringing this up, it's one of the things I gripe about the loudest with Man of Steel. We've seen him fight Zod and the world engine for what feels like 3 hours, he snaps his neck which is a huge moment for a character like Superman, and then immediately the movie cuts to him joking around in the desert with a general after destroying even more government property. No reference is made to any of the previous events almost like it never happened, the consequences of what just happened are completely brushed aside for some heavy handed light hearted banter. Talk about completely shifting gears out of nowhere.
It's a shining example of how tone deaf the movie is, and I rarely see it addressed.

 

[Black Narcissus]

Superman Returns made numerous choices that I think were poor, but in terms of basic story structure and characterization, I find it to be head and shoulders above MoS. The latter relied far too much on "tell don't show" storytelling and assumed empathy for me to connect with almost any character; the only moment that worked for me, and worked pretty well, was when young Clark was struggling with his powers.
Saying the Avengers was written by someone with "zero emotional intelligence" befuddles me. There's better writing in any given five minutes of either Avengers film than anything in Man of Steel.


Thank you for bringing this up, it's one of the things I gripe about the loudest with Man of Steel. We've seen him fight Zod and the world engine for what feels like 3 hours, he snaps his neck which is a huge moment for a character like Superman, and then immediately the movie cuts to him joking around in the desert with a general after destroying even more government property. No reference is made to any of the previous events almost like it never happened, the consequences of what just happened are completely brushed aside for some heavy handed light hearted banter. Talk about completely shifting gears out of nowhere.
It's a shining example of how tone deaf the movie is, and I rarely see it addressed.

Careful, your inner fanboy is showing.

lawd.

Oh, I still don't know how and why this became another mos debate. Hahahaha.

 

[Flint Marko]

I'm not gonna deny it, I think Whedon is a far better writer than Goyer sans Nolan. I don't find that to be a particularly controversial statement, we can look at their track records and see examples of what I'm talking about.
And for what it's worth, even I as an outspoken critic of MoS can't wait for BvS to get here so we can talk about something else in the DCEU lol.