How close is Maguire to the comics?

[pr0xyt0xin]

Here's where that pesky ability to read, comprehend and think abstractly would have come in handy for you!

TASM obviously, and quite transparently made an effort (and failed) to emulate the filmic "superhero in the real world" model set by Nolan in BB (ie. Dark, gritty, realistic, grounded are all interchangeable buzzwords in this case).

Just to explain it completely (since that seems necessary for you) This is why I made the comparison to TASM (which is one of two existing Spider-Man film franchises) being equally as "juvenile" and "childish" (if not more so than) the Raimi series.

Fine both are childish. Probably due to being spider-man films and damn near impossible to make mature or R-rated. (Unless we're talking Reign or Noir.) And I don't prefer the way Raimi did it. Probably due to the subject of this thread and his girlfriend and their lack of likable qualities.

 

[Vid Electricz]

Fine both are childish. Probably due to being spider-man films and damn near impossible to make mature or R-rated. (Unless we're talking Reign or Noir.) And I don't prefer the way Raimi did it. Probably due to the subject of this thread and his girlfriend and their lack of likable qualities.

Fair enough. There are certain aspects of The Raimi series I really dislike and there are certain aspects of TASM I do actually like (believe it or not). I just think it's silly to denigrate the Raimi films as being less "mature" than TASM (when they both have their fair share of dark, comedic, dramatic moments).

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Did I forget they mostly nailed the Spidey side of the character?

 

[Green Goblin]

Here's where that pesky ability to read, comprehend and think abstractly would have come in handy for you!

TASM obviously, and quite transparently made an effort (and failed) to emulate the filmic "superhero in the real world" model set by Nolan in BB (ie. Dark, gritty, realistic, grounded are all interchangeable buzzwords in this case).

Just to explain it completely (since that seems necessary for you) This is why I made the comparison to TASM (which is one of two existing Spider-Man film franchises) being equally as "juvenile" and "childish" (if not more so than) the Raimi series.

It's not Nolan realistic, Nolan dumbed the characters down to show what they would look like in the real world. Webb put these Super-Human characters in the real world and he accomplished that. I don't think Rami's were childish, they were campy and people can get the two confused. TASM like in Ultimate comics took the camp out. Batman & Robin is childish.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

Did I forget they mostly nailed the Spidey side of the character?

Are you referring to Raimi or Webb?

 

[Dragon]

I think Tobey nailed the concept of Peter. He seemed believable as the character. The problem was that the scripts he was given didn't expand on Peter as a character. As far as things like quips, Tobey showed in the limited amount of chances he got that he could be funny, he could be cocky and certainly intense. The scripts just didn't take it far enough.

That being said, as someone on the crew remarked (I forgot who) the films were essentially their own universe. So for what they were, I think Tobey did a good job.

 

[Green Goblin]

I think Tobey nailed the concept of Peter. He seemed believable as the character. The problem was that the scripts he was given didn't expand on Peter as a character. As far as things like quips, Tobey showed in the limited amount of chances he got that he could be funny, he could be cocky and certainly intense. The scripts just didn't take it far enough.

That being said, as someone on the crew remarked (I forgot who) the films were essentially their own universe. So for what they were, I think Tobey did a good job.

He did not show the confidence and charm of Peter in his college years.

At times Peter in the Rami trilogy was more similar to Mr Bean than Peter Parker.

 

[henzINNIT]

I think Tobey nailed the concept of Peter. He seemed believable as the character. The problem was that the scripts he was given didn't expand on Peter as a character. As far as things like quips, Tobey showed in the limited amount of chances he got that he could be funny, he could be cocky and certainly intense. The scripts just didn't take it far enough.

I agree. Tobey displayed a good range as Parker but can only do what he script asks for. Raimi clearly wasn't as interested in the quips as many fans were and it's funny to see Maguire catch a lot of flack over it when obviously it's not his fault. He has a lot of fun banter in the video games. Pretty cool that he came in to do the voice for all 3, because it looks like a boring as hell job to do lol

 

[Antihero]

Tobey played a superb potrayal of Spiderman.He was the nerd that missed the bus,couldn't sit next the hot girl and stuff like that.When Peter Parker got his powers,I loved it.He wasn't the nerd anymore.I loved it when he made a fool out of Flash.On the other hand,Andrew was a cool teenager who acquired superpowers.I didn't feel the need to cheer him when he got those powers.I have always loved when Peter Parker is potrayed as a shy dude rather than a cocky *******.

Tobey seemed more affected by the death of Ben Parker than Andrew.

The ending where Andrew leaves Gwen because he made a promise to her dad was good.But it is nothing compared to the scene where Tobey doesn't say his love for Mary Jane.Tobey acted very mature and realised his love must be sacrificed for the greater good of the society.After all,With great power comes great responsibility

 

[Senator Pleasury]

Tobey played a superb potrayal of Spiderman.He was the nerd that missed the bus,couldn't sit next the hot girl and stuff like that.

Stuff like that has been a one-dimensional stereotype for years before 2002. A nerd doesn't have to be bullied by even the school bus driver.

When Peter Parker got his powers,I loved it.He wasn't the nerd anymore.

I'm sorry but he kept being the same nerd, bullied by everyone. Even in Spider-man 3 he was still bullied by class mates. He didn't change one bit regarding his social skills.

I loved it when he made a fool out of Flash.

That would be Garfield's Peter.

Maguire actually made a freak out of himself. And of course none of his school mates remembered witnessing his amazing skills and spider-webs when Spider-man appeared.

On the other hand,Andrew was a cool teenager who acquired superpowers.I didn't feel the need to cheer him when he got those powers.I have always loved when Peter Parker is potrayed as a shy dude rather than a cocky *******.

Opposite from school, he had no friends and no one but Gwen valued his heroism. Regarding Gwen Garfield's Peter was shy, just not a complete social inept as Maguire was.

Tobey seemed more affected by the death of Ben Parker than Andrew.

No way. Ben was completely out of himself when he saw Ben dead. That and next day he couldn't be approached as he was totally distressed for his loss.

The ending where Andrew leaves Gwen because he made a promise to her dad was good.But it is nothing compared to the scene where Tobey doesn't say his love for Mary Jane.Tobey acted very mature and realised his love must be sacrificed for the greater good of the society.After all,With great power comes great responsibility

Yeah, Maguire realized he couldn't be with MJ since his enemies would kidnap her. So what he does is keeping her near him and as a result Octopus kidnaps her.

 

[Vid Electricz]

I'm sorry but he kept being the same nerd, bullied by everyone. Even in Spider-man 3 he was still bullied by class mates. He didn't change one bit regarding his social skills.

None of us know what Raimi was thinking as far as Spider-Man 3 goes, but the whole second half of SM1 and SM2, Pete is just an average guy. He's not bullied or picked on by anyone.

Maguire actually made a freak out of himself. And of course none of his school mates remembered witnessing his amazing skills and spider-webs when Spider-man appeared.

Yeah, yeah. And none of The guys on the train remember witnessing Peter's amazing skills when Spider-Man appears. No one remembers Peter bending the steel crossbar with a football, etc...

Opposite from school, he had no friends and no one but Gwen valued his heroism. Regarding Gwen Garfield's Peter was shy, just not a complete social inept as Maguire was.

Regarding Garfield's Peter: He had no friends and no one but Gwen valued his heroism.

Maguire's Peter at least had Harry as a friend. It's never shown in the movie anywhere that his Peter is socially inept. Shy and reserved maybe.

No way. Ben was completely out of himself when he saw Ben dead. That and next day he couldn't be approached as he was totally distressed for his loss.

Do you mean Peter?

Right, and Maguire's Peter wasn't "out of himself" (whatever that means) and didn't go into a rage, brutalizing and almost killing the carjacker. And he certainly wasn't depressed at his graduation because he missed Ben. You're obviously just cherry picking and making stuff up now. Lame.

Yeah, Maguire realized he couldn't be with MJ since his enemies would kidnap her. So what he does is keeping her near him and as a result Octopus kidnaps her.

Good, you've grasped one of the main issues from SM2. Peter and MJ make the decision to face whatever problems/challenges come their way together. I swear, you guys must zone out whenever the characters are having a dialogue and not punching each other.

But it makes much more sense in TASM, where Peter acts selfishly and irresponsibly and gets his Uncle (and Captain Stacy) killed. So what happens when he makes a promise to a dying man? He breaks it irresponsibly and selfishly. Wow. Wonder what's gonna happen now, Pete! Yeah, great job with the character growth there.

 

[Senator Pleasury]

None of us know what Raimi was thinking as far as Spider-Man 3 goes, but the whole second half of SM1 and SM2, Pete is just an average guy. He's not bullied or picked on by anyone.

I don't need to know what Raimi was thinking. he voluntarily kept Peter being the same loser. Whatever he was thinking he was still ignored and knocked by various walkers for no reason, humiliated by the flower shop guy, ignored by every waiter at John Jameson's party, etc etc. Oh, and the Spider-man 3 episode I mentioned. He couldn't repair his bike without having that wheel loose, nor walk like a normal person without falling over for no reason.

As you see, what Raimi was thinking was pretty clear. Radioactive spider or not, Peter is fun because he loses every time.

Yeah, yeah. And none of The guys on the train remember witnessing Peter's amazing skills when Spider-Man appears. No one remembers Peter bending the steel crossbar with a football, etc...

Well, basketball skills are not the same as having spider-webs coming from your wrists. Same for the train guys, they saw skills from an unknown, not Peter Parker, the guy from the very same school.

Regarding Garfield's Peter: He had no friends and no one but Gwen valued his heroism.

Maguire's Peter at least had Harry as a friend. It's never shown in the movie anywhere that his Peter is socially inept. Shy and reserved maybe.

There's plenty of Mary Jane, the school bus driver and everyone else not applauding him but calling him a freak to tell us how he is perceived. Garfield? He was a real loner. But when the circumstances required he could be heroic and when the girl talked to him he wasn't a mumbling loser.

Right, and Maguire's Peter wasn't "out of himself" (whatever that means) and didn't go into a rage, brutalizing and almost killing the carjacker. And he certainly wasn't depressed at his graduation because he missed Ben. You're obviously just cherry picking and making stuff up now. Lame.

So, you're saying that both showed concern for Uncle Ben's death?

Good, you've grasped the main issue from SM2. Peter and MJ make the decision to be together and face whatever problems come their way together. I swear, you guys must zone out whenever the characters are having a dialogue and not punching each other.

I am talking before the end of Spider-man 2. Before MJ decided to be with Peter he was still all over her, just not being his boyfriend, but showing how much MJ meant to him. Which is why Octopus kidnapped her.

But it makes much more sense in TASM, where Peter acts selfishly and irresponsibly and gets his Uncle (and Captain Stacy) killed. So what happens when he makes a promise to a dting man? He breaks it irresponsibly and selfishly. Yeah, great job with the character growth there.

Same as when Maguire's Peter knew he couldn't be near Mary Jane and he did it anyways. He didn't do what he knew was the right thing to do.

In Garfield's Peter case, Gwen also knew he was Spider-man and so she was aware of the dangers.

 

[henzINNIT]

Well, basketball skills are not the same as having spider-webs coming from your wrists. Same for the train guys, they saw skills from an unknown, not Peter Parker, the guy from the very same school.

Here's that cherry-picking you were accused of. Basket-ball skills weren't mentioned, Peter throwing a football with such force that he miraculously bends a goal post was.

 

[henzINNIT]

As you see, what Raimi was thinking was pretty clear. Radioactive spider or not, Peter is fun because he loses every time.

Isn't this the fabled "Parker Luck"?

There's plenty of Mary Jane, the school bus driver and everyone else not applauding him but calling him a freak to tell us how he is perceived. Garfield? He was a real loner. But when the circumstances required he could be heroic and when the girl talked to him he wasn't a mumbling loser.

There were plenty of people applauding when he beat down Flash. They were also shocked because Peter was known as a good natured guy.

I am talking before the end of Spider-man 2. Before MJ decided to be with Peter he was still all over her, just not being his boyfriend, but showing how much MJ meant to him. Which is why Octopus kidnapped her.

Yeah. He tried to avoid her, but couldn't bury his feelings.

Same as when Maguire's Peter knew he couldn't be near Mary Jane and he did it anyways. He didn't do what he knew was the right thing to do.

In Garfield's Peter case, Gwen also knew he was Spider-man and so she was aware of the dangers.

Completely different. In Raimi's film Peter makes the choice himself to protect MJ, but can't stick with it.

In TASM, Peter is forced to promise to stay away from Gwen to protect her, but goes back on his word instantly.

 

[AnneFan]

Anyways, Maguire resembles the classic 616 Peter Parker IMO:

While Andrew Garfield looks more like the modern incarnations of the character:

Yes, well done. I like both interpretations however the Maguire look/characterisation is more my thing.

 

[Senator Pleasury]

Here's that cherry-picking you were accused of. Basket-ball skills weren't mentioned, Peter throwing a football with such force that he miraculously bends a goal post was.

Ermmm, no. Basketball skills are nowhere near spider-webs coming out of your wrists.

Isn't this the fabled "Parker Luck"?

No. That's more of a caricature.

But one way or the other, my reply was to someone who said "When Peter Parker got his powers, I loved it. He wasn't the nerd anymore." Which it's clearly not true.

There were plenty of people applauding when he beat down Flash. They were also shocked because Peter was known as a good natured guy.

Not in the movie. So much so he ran away after he was called a freak.

Yeah. He tried to avoid her, but couldn't bury his feelings.

Which justifies both Raimi's and Webb's versions.

Completely different. In Raimi's film Peter makes the choice himself to protect MJ, but can't stick with it.

Which justifies both Raimi's and Webb's versions. Same thing happens in both movies.

In TASM, Peter is forced to promise to stay away from Gwen to protect her, but goes back on his word instantly.

In Raimi's version, Peter knows it's better to stay away from MJ to protect her, but goes back on his word instantly.

 

[Antihero]

I prefer Peter Parker to be a shy nerd who becomes more responsible with his acquired superheroes.

 

[Dragon]

He did not show the confidence and charm of Peter in his college years.

At times Peter in the Rami trilogy was more similar to Mr Bean than Peter Parker.

What confidence and charm are we talking about? You do realize that Peter never actually asked either Gwen or MJ out, right? MJ was a date set-up by May and Anna, and Gwen actually came out with her feelings to Peter after he had returned from his disappearance due to Doc Ock causing his memory loss. And well after Peter and Gwen were together, not to mention MJ, Peter was still very insecure. He was constantly worried about Flash and again, it was MJ who initiated their first kiss. Hell, even Black Cat had to practically jump on him with claws extended.

Sure, Peter was always a likeable guy, but insecurity was definitely a mark of the character.

 

[henzINNIT]

Ermmm, no. Basketball skills are nowhere near spider-webs coming out of your wrists.

....

You must be trolling.

 

[Senator Pleasury]

....

You must be trolling.

No. They're simply not the same.

 

[Vid Electricz]

No. They're simply not the same.

Right, they're not the same because that makes your flimsy defense for TASM seem more convincing. lol.

a guy sticking a ball to his hand somehow, jumping twenty feet, breaking the backboard, denting a goal post with a football, sticking to the subway cieling and thrashing 5 guys at once somehow ISN'T as conspicuous as Maguire's Peter beating up Flash (remember, no one ever actually sees Peter use his webs, so that's out)?

lol. Your bias and hypocrisy are hilarious, You really have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Vid Electricz]

What confidence and charm are we talking about? You do realize that Peter never actually asked either Gwen or MJ out, right? MJ was a date set-up by May and Anna, and Gwen actually came out with her feelings to Peter after he had returned from his disappearance due to Doc Ock causing his memory loss. And well after Peter and Gwen were together, not to mention MJ, Peter was still very insecure. He was constantly worried about Flash and again, it was MJ who initiated their first kiss. Hell, even Black Cat had to practically jump on him with claws extended.

Sure, Peter was always a likeable guy, but insecurity was definitely a mark of the character.

Well said! Peter in the comics was nowhere near as confident, cocksure, headstrong or selfish as the one in TASM.

 

[Senator Pleasury]

Right, they're not the same because that makes your flimsy defense for TASM seem more convincing. lol.

No, they're not the same because they are not. I can get if one guy is incredibly agile, like those parkour guys. But spider-webs coming out from people's wrists is another thing entirely, one that humans don't normally do. And it'd be specially weird if some time later I see this new superhero doing the same.

a guy sticking a ball to his hand somehow, jumping twenty feet, breaking the backboard, denting a goal post with a football, sticking to the subway cieling and thrashing 5 guys at once somehow ISN'T as conspicuous as Maguire's Peter beating up Flash (remember, no one ever actually sees Peter use his webs, so that's out)?

No, athletes can perform such feats. It's still more plausible than him shooting spider-webs.

lol. Your bias and hypocrisy are hilarious, You really have no idea what you're talking about.

I'm not going to stoop down to personal attacks. I'm not that desperate.

Well said! Peter in the comics was nowhere near as confident, cocksure, headstrong or selfish as the one in TASM.

Yes, he is. That's why all those beautiful girls were always around him.

 

[Vid Electricz]

No, they're not the same because they are not. I can get if one guy is incredibly agile, like those parkour guys. But spider-webs coming out from people's wrists is another thing entirely, one that humans don't normally do. And it'd be specially weird if some time later I see this new superhero doing the same.

See, there you go ignoring pertinent points. No one ever saw Peter shoot a web- in fact, they would have no idea that it even was a web. Like I said, that's out.

Do humans (even parkour practicing humans lol!) normally stick to ceilings like TASM Peter does on the subway? Do they thrash 5 guys at once and break steel rods in half?

No, athletes can perform such feats. It's still more plausible than him shooting spider-webs.

Really? Athletes can stick to ceilings? That's plausible? Athletes can bend a goal post with a football? Athletes can rip a steel pole from a subway car? lol. Your bias is beyond belief- That's why I can't take you seriously.

I'm not going to stoop personal attacks. I'm not that desperate.

It's not a personal attack. It's pointing out an obvious fact. You continuously ignore the flaws of TASM while pointing out similar flaws from SM1.

Yes, he is. That's why all those beautiful girls were always around him.

Right, just like Maguire's Peter had MJ after him at the end of SM1, and then Gwen and Betty flirting with him in SM3. Way to go with that example! lol.

 

[Senator Pleasury]

See, there you go ignoring pertinent points. No one ever saw Peter shoot a web- in fact, they would have no idea that it even was a web. Like I said, that's out.

Yes, they did. In fact they laughed at Peter dragging those trays with spider-webs coming out of his wrists. And then he had troubled because the trays got stuck at the cafeteria doors. Right there, in front of people who know him.

Do humans (even parkour practicing humans lol!) normally stick to ceilings like TASM Peter does on the subway? Do they thrash 5 guys at once and break steel rods in half?

I was talking about what he did at the school, since there people know him. Or that guy at the wrestling place, who knew him, his face, his "Spider-man" nickname, who was robbed and saw Peter letting the thief escape.... and yet he didn't assume that that "Spider-man" was the same Spider-man, and even when he had every reason to have his revenge against him, he never went to the Bugle claiming he knew the guy's face.

Really? Athletes can stick to ceilings? That's plausible? Athletes can bend a goal post with a football? Athletes can rip a steel pole from a subway car? lol. Your bias is beyond belief- That's why I can't take you seriously.

Again, people that don't know Peter. Unlike his school mates.

It's not a personal attack. It's pointing out an obvious fact. You continuously ignore the flaws of TASM while pointing out similar flaws from SM1.

No, cliches in TASM are nowhere near as outdated and caricature-like as the ones in Raimi, no matter how many of them we could list.

Right, just like Maguire's Peter had MJ after him at the end of SM1, and then Gwen and Betty flirting with him in SM3. Way to go with that example! lol.

One girl after she pitied him for being everyone's bullying victim (including the school bus driver). But then again, getting MJ was the easiest thing in the world. At least Raimi's version.