How come animation is still seen as something "kiddy" or "not good enough"?

[Metal Spidey]

In a recent interview with Geek Chic Daily, director Gore Verbinski says the following:

GCD: Your first movie, Mouse Hunt, was very much a live-action cartoon. Now that you’ve done an actual cartoon, were the similarities as great as you might have thought?

GV: Well, I think Mouse Hunt is referential to a lot of Tom and Jerry shtick. But it was a live-action film. This is an animated film, which we never thought about as an animated movie. We don’t know how to make an animated movie; none of us have – me or the people at ILM. So it’s more of a spaghetti western than it is an animated movie, and that’s the way we approached this. I understand your question, but I see these films as completely different – it’s as if they’re each half of the same question. Storyboarding Mouse Hunt was like storyboarding a Roadrunner cartoon, inspired by a lot of that, and Rango was primarily storyboarding a western spliced in with an identity crisis. The compositions are based more on Sam Peckinpah, and the postmodern western, where it’s the end of an era, the railroads come, and the gunfighters’ myths are dying.

I think I get what he's talking about but it still doesn't make much sense. Being animated has nothing to do with the genre of a movie so what's the point of saying an obviously animated movie isn't an animated movie but instead just a western? He talks like animation has it's own set of rules or something. Has he never seen any animated film outside of Pixar and Dreamworks? And even though I don't like it much, Japanese animation is a perfect example of how ridiculous his comment was. I'm not trying to say anything bad about the guy but I think he's stuck in an "animation is only for kids" mindset that should've been gone decades ago.

 

[Tron Bonne]

Yeah, I agree it should have gone away decades ago, but it's still very much there. Ask pretty much anyone from a more general audience leaning point of view, and you're pretty much guaranteed to get 'animation is for kids' and/or 'animation is only for all ages' type of response. I mean, yeah, you'd think that kind of mindset wouldn't bleed over to artists and such, but it really does.

 

[Soapy]

It's a really unfortunate sentiment, but it's not going to go away any time soon.

But what's worse, is when people, especially "fans" want to make cartoons live action. As if a real life film would somehow be more "legitimate" than an animated one. Some cartoons are better suited for such a translation, but then you have situations where a beautiful show like Samurai Jack would lose much, if not all, of it's charm by making it live action.

Spoiler

 

[Hunter Rider]

It's a real shame that this mentality continues to pervade given the quality of movies like Toy Story 3.

 

[SuperFerret]

Certain genres, particularly the comic book movie genre, would benefit from having more big budget animated movies. If nothing else, it would remove the "so and so doesn't look like the character" and the "the effects looked fake" complaints.

 

[Soapy]

It's a real shame that this mentality continues to pervade given the quality of movies like Toy Story 3 How To Train Your Dragon.

Totally agree! t:

 

[SuperFerret]

Just to clarify, by "animated movies", I meant traditional animation.

 

[:eek:]

I know people who refuse to watch The Simpsons for example. "It's for kids" they say

 

[Max J Power]

Animation for older audiences is very limiting too. Don't get me wrong, I love The Simpsons and many of the shows it inspired, but I can't even remember the last "adult" cartoon made by an American studio that wasn't a comedy.

 

[Figs]

I still enjoy animated films and I don't think they're only for kids, but I still think they don't compare to a good live action film.

I just don't get the love for them in this past decade. People are all up on the animated nuts lately.

 

[dark_b]

what is a shame is that to proove a point we always need to mention Pixar. its like Tangled and How to train your Dragon never happened.

 

[Figs]

what is a shame is that to proove a point we always need to mention Pixar. its like Tangled and How to train your Dragon never happened.

I haven't seen Tangled yet, but I really liked How To Train Your Dragon.

I think it's because Pixar has made most of the best animated films so far. They kind of hog the spotlight.

 

[dark_b]

Pixar is making fantastic movies. i just wanted to promote Tangled and HTTYT hehehe

watch Tangled. cute story. FANTASTIC CHARACTER DESIGNES,FANTASTIC ANIMATION.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

I still enjoy animated films and I don't think they're only for kids, but I still think they don't compare to a good live action film.

I prefer my superhero movies to be live action, as I get that type of 'drawn art' kick out of comics already, I want to see them realised in the real world for a change.

But, for some stories animation is the best way to go. I don't think 'Coraline' would have been nearly as good with real actors and CG sfx. Toy Story as well, that needed to be CG somehow, it would not have been as good with drawn animation *or* live action/CG. I'm not exactly sure if I can put into words why tbh, lol. Trad animation....they would have not felt like toys brought to life, they would have just felt like regular cartoon characters we have seen a million times, and bringing them into a live action setting...we would not have felt the CG toys were real enough, but, if you put them in a CG world that is supposed to be realistic, you find the balance necesarry between real and unreal to feel these toys are alive in the real world.

and i would say I got as much enjoyment out of those as any live action movie of the same quality of writing.

Animation in my collections, i don't have much I suppose...well, maybe more than i think...all four volumes of Dungeons and Dragons, s1 and 2 of BatmanTAS, s2-4 of Spider-man TAS, Justice League s1, the Iron-Giant, Toy Story 1 and 2, Nemo, Incredibles, Simpsons movie, used to have the SouthPark movie but was lost, 2 vols of X-men, 2 vols of Hulk, Spiderman and amazing friends series 1, complete Iron-Man 90s series, Ult Avengers 1 and 2.

So, just about all of those are created as kid's animation, well, some for all ages, but as long as they are suitable for kids, nothing there rated just for adults.
So then you are talking about adult Anime, stuff like that, I had the two Ghost in the Shell movies, thought the first one was ok, and sold the second one for money before I got round to watching it(I heard it was not v good, was a gift).
I liked the Cowboy Bebop movie, but apart from that I can't recall watching any anime, there is so much of it out there you don't know where to start I suppose, and as i do not have much money, it has never been something I have put at the top of my shopping list. My nephew has some anime dvds, but from what I have seen of some of the stuff he has watched, it was not stuff to my taste, apart from CBebop.
I know a lot of people did not like it, but i quite liked that Batman Gotham Knight anime movie, well, y'know, some segments were better than others.
So, apart from that, i don't know of much adult animation movies/series to compare to live action.

 

[Tron Bonne]

Animation for older audiences is very limiting too. Don't get me wrong, I love The Simpsons and many of the shows it inspired, but I can't even remember the last "adult" cartoon made by an American studio that wasn't a comedy.

Yeah, about the only way you can transcend the 'all ages' thing is to do a comedy show. It's a shame, really, no medium really deserves to be put into one little box.

 

[Hush]

Strangely enough I think Pixar is just doing what Disney did in its hay day. I mean Beauty and The Beast and The Lion King along with a plethora of other Disney movies dealt with very adult themes at times while entertaining the children in the audience as well. Now a new Generation of children have Nemo, Toy Story and The Incredibles to do what the Classics did for many of us. Animation is still seen as kid stuff but it doesnt need to be ultra serious like Anime to be Adult. Just think about the themes of the story in The Incredibles or Iron Giant, abandonment and lonliness cloud those films and give the story gravitas that most Live Action films fail to fully realize. I think as long as you look at it with the right perspective you can get an adult thee out of a movie or see it through and adults eyes and not justs ee it as a Kids movie.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

What would be the main ingredients that an American network would deem to make a show adult though, if not risque jokes? Sex and Violence. They would be worried that kids would watch it anyway, there would be an outcry and they would lose sponsorship, ads, and reputation in some right wing corners/viewers.
I have no idea about what plays elsewhere animation wise on tv shows, whether there are Japanese anime shows that are adult with that type of content.

Tbh, i have not given it much thought as to why there are no adult animated drama shows. But it's just like comics, and how they evolved eh? The main difference is that comics are cheaper to produce , and folk have to actually go out and seek them out, so the revolution in comics that started with the underground in the 60s, and made it into mainstream sh comics in the 80s, managed to happen in the US despite them being known mainly for being a kid's medium in general, superheroes being the main draw and image in the public's minds, just like the comedy in the adult animation being dominant.
Who knows when that could happen in the US given the large turnaround in tv shows, and folk all fighting to get on the airwaves. They stick with what is safe as there is so much money involved.
I mean, one of my fav US underground comic book artists reportedly got his own pilot finally, after many, many years of pitching.
But, it was not a pilot for 'Hate', his most popular book(the most popular underground book of the 90s), which is a mix of comedy and drama(and what he was trying to get off the ground for many years as a tv show, refusing some animated movie offers), it was for 'the Bradleys', the precursor to Hate(which features the main protagonist of Hate as the family son), which features yet another crazy comedy family and their antics. So, it did not surprise me *that* much that got a pilot, which is annoying, as Hate has so much more potential to be different, and although it is a v funny comic, it is also about adult relationships.


I guess, just as I started checking out underground comics in the early 90s, instead of being on an exclusive diet of superhero books, I should check out some adult animation. If I can borrow some, funds being what they are, but yeah, I think my nephew should have something I could get into.

 

[Tron Bonne]

Strangely enough I think Pixar is just doing what Disney did in its hay day. I mean Beauty and The Beast and The Lion King along with a plethora of other Disney movies dealt with very adult themes at times while entertaining the children in the audience as well. Now a new Generation of children have Nemo, Toy Story and The Incredibles to do what the Classics did for many of us. Animation is still seen as kid stuff but it doesnt need to be ultra serious like Anime to be Adult. Just think about the themes of the story in The Incredibles or Iron Giant, abandonment and lonliness cloud those films and give the story gravitas that most Live Action films fail to fully realize. I think as long as you look at it with the right perspective you can get an adult thee out of a movie or see it through and adults eyes and not justs ee it as a Kids movie.

Yeah, but there's still kind of limit of what you're 'allowed' to do that you can't break out of. There's nothing saying you can't subtly explore more adult themes in all ages entertainment, but you aren't allowed to explore them in more adult and franker fashions. Really, it's like the only medium that most say you aren't allow to go with, and most others will fall into line with and nod about.

I mean, hell, Studio Ghibli (which Lasseter and Pixar take tons of influence from) did Princess Mononoke. There's really no reason we should restrict any medium, be it live action, comics, or animation, to only being able to do something one way and one way only. It's essentially a strangulation of art and culture to do so.

 

[tecnowraith]

Animation for older audiences is very limiting too. Don't get me wrong, I love The Simpsons and many of the shows it inspired, but I can't even remember the last "adult" cartoon made by an American studio that wasn't a comedy.

How adult do you mean? Would Heavy Metal and it's sequel count? How About Titan A.E.? or Starchasers or Transformers the Movie?

 

[Homer J. Fong]

I think the reason animation is largely still perceived as childish is because most American animation falls into the realm of light fantasy comedies featuring catchy pop songs (original or otherwise), anthropomorphized animals or objects making wisecracks, and an assortment of jokes or mere refences making clear, sometimes strained, attempts to appeal to both kids and adults. Now, there have been many great American animated films in the last decade - everything by Pixar, the first two Shrek movies, Corpse Bride, How to Train Your Dragon, Coraline... - that have some or all of those qualities but are so much more, and that shouldn't be qualified/damned with faint praise by saying they're great animated films; they're great films period. But for further examples of the really great, exciting animation that doesn't seem to be making a cynical attempt to hit all demographics, you have to turn to other countries - Japan's Hayao Miyazaki, France's Sylvain Chomet, and films like Persepolis and Waltz with Bashir, which didn't balk and tone down their content because they were animated. I want to see, I feel like we need to see, a wider range of genres, themes, and tones being explored in American animated films, because animation isn't a genre, it's an art form that can tackle any genre, and the possibilities are extraordinary and limitless.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Animation does seem to have a more limited audience than live-action. Not necessarily a "childish" one, but perhaps one that's more younger average demographic. Also fans do seem to think having a live action legitimatizes an animation as equal.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

I also have some weird double standards. I prefer my comedy shows to be animated, but I prefer my comedy movies to be live action. Weird, huh?

 

[jmc]

I believe it to be a problem on two fronts. One is the perception that animation from everyone outside the animation industry sees the medium being for children because the films have always been for 'all ages'. The second is the animation industry (American one anyway) very rarely ventures outside the 'all ages' area, even if a film delves into heavier themes the goal is generally to make a movie that can appeal to everyone because the more people you appeal to the better the chances of a return, so we're in a bit of an endless loop. I'm certain there are animators who would love to tackle something a bit different, maybe something a bit out there. I've always had this idea of a group of screwed up real life people getting trapped in a Disney style animated feature and completely turning the place upside down, a bit of a dark comedy. Something a bit more adult in nature, but how do you market an animated film that isn't for kids when the perception has always been they are for kids?

 

[terry78]

The Animation Age Ghetto is what it's called on Tv Tropes. To this day, my mom can not figure out why my dad liked to watch BTAS back in the day.

 

[Spider-Vader]

The animation genre is luckily becoming more accepted. Up's & TS3's Oscar nominations are proof. Hopefully one day the genre will get the respect it truly deserves.