How could Burton's Gotham have been improved?

[Ledger Joker]

Whenever I watch Batman or Batman Returns, I'm fascinated with the architecture. The setting alone of those two movies makes it quite clear that Gotham City is not of our world: it is timeless, noir, and the citizens have a penchant for conserving electricity.

I love Burton's Gotham. The one thing I might change if being given creative authority over some new Special Editions (oh what a wonder), is adding more light. When all is so dark, it gives an impression of emptiness, while in truth Gotham is a bustling city.

What are some improvements you'd make hypothetically speaking?

 

[BubbaGump]

Burton's Gotham was perfect.

/thread

 

[Joker]

giving it more light would ruin it...it looked empty because everyone was scarred to be out...compare Batman to Batman Returns...there's a ton of people outside walking around in Returns, towards the beginning, because the city has been cleaned up

 

[Ledger Joker]

I know the reasoning behind it: people were too frightened because of the crime.

Still. I would've liked some more visual illumination.

 

[Joker]

brightness would have destroyed the bleak, gothic vibe...

 

[Ledger Joker]

brightness would have destroyed the bleak, gothic vibe...

I never said make it so bright that it yacked with the gothic vibe. I never even used the word 'bright'

A few added dim lamps during night if utilized in moderation would've been great.

 

[raleagh]

maybe your tv is broken.

there are enough street lights in the set.

 

[union_jak]

Actually, they should have had their own version of Central Park or something; Of course it would be a crime infested park but it couls still use one.

The Park in Batman Returns where the Cobblepots walk through with the baby! It's snow covered, but it is there! In the comics it's called Robinson Park.

 

[arachnid-guy]

I really need to re-watch both 'originals'.

 

[El Payaso]

Burton's Gotham was perfect.

 

[fabman]

Burton's Gotham was near perfect, especially the one in the first 'Batman,' by production designer Anton Furst. My main problem with Bo Welch's ('Batman Returns') was that it felt and was too small. They should have done the movie in Pinewood Studios or some other, bigger studios, than the ones at the WB, in Burbank.

 

[Penismightier]

I know the reasoning behind it: people were too frightened because of the crime.

Still. I would've liked some more visual illumination.

Let me expand upon what The Joker said. Light would have ruined the mood set by all of the art directors and set designers. Burton's Gotham was very German Expressionistic, and the key to something like that is a lot of shadows and contrast. Burton understood that Gotham isn't real city, and as so his Gotham distorts reality just a small bit to the point where his Gotham doesn't look like any city in the United States. It was a perfect mixture between old and new, art deco and modern architecture. It was the city of the comics come to life.

 

[CFE]

If it were made to look less like a backlot or studio and more like a big, sprawling, open city that would've been better.

In "Returns" especially, the exteriors in Gotham feel more like interiors...yes I'm aware the sets ARE in the Warner Bros/Universal studios, but more effort could've been put in to make it feel like a true exterior in feeling...

hell there's even the moment after Batman's crashed the Bat-Ski Boat into the Penguin's duck where he gets out of the Bat-Ski Boat. if you listen closely when he props his hands onto the canopy of the boat, you can hear the echo as if this set, which is apparently outside, is actually in doors...

CFE

 

[fabman]

Exactly my feeling, I would've prefered that aswell, but, nevermind, I still love the movies.

But, if I were Burton, I would've never commited the error of not including Harvey Dent in 'Batman Returns,' but that's another story.

 

[Darkest Knight]

I thought B89's was a fantastic vision. Returns, not so much. All he needed to do was keep entire continuity, so it felt like a continuation of the first story, thus feeling more comfortable with everything ... but it was unsettling with what he delivered to us.

 

[GoogleMe94]

Returns WAS the same gotham from B89 except slightly more art deco, more noirish, and had snow on the ground this time. if they took away the snow, it would look more like B89 gotham. anyways, i love burtons gotham in both his films, only thing i can think of that would have been cool is to maybe have more gargoyles on buildings and haveing batman look down around them. but other then that, perfect. it had the right amount of retro and art deco, and had that slight comic book feel to it that i liked, like an old black and white movie. schumacher and nolans gotham were too modern and today for my taste.

 

[GoogleMe94]

The one thing I might change if being given creative authority over some new Special Editions (oh what a wonder), is adding more light. When all is so dark, it gives an impression of emptiness, while in truth Gotham is a bustling city.

i always thought that Metropolis was the bustling city and that gotham was the dark twisted version of it, where ppl lived in fear and stuff like that.

 

[fabman]

1. It was intended to look claustrophobic a lot. They explain more indepth somewhere that it adds to the fear of a possible victim running and it ends up like a maze or something.

2. I know a lot of the first drafts had Dent, and that in one draft, Dent and Shreck were both in it, but everything Dent had in the draft was given to Shreck, including the finale, which would have possibly been the thing to scar Harvey making him Two-Face.

1. On one side, yeah, the claustrophobia was intended. On the other side, Die Hard is one of the most claustrophobic movies ever yet the space (inside the building) seems much bigger. I think SOME of it was indended, but there was definitely lack of space in Warner Bros.' studios.

2. Well, definitely a mistake to take it out.

 

[GoogleMe94]

im glad dent wasnt in Returns. not that i dont like twoface, but i think it would have made things complicated. and i totally wanted to see selina fry that bastard, lol. and dent should become 2face because of acid scarring.

 

[union_jak]

If we had Dent, we wouldn't have had Max Shreck or Christopher Walken. We couldn't have had both Shreck and Dent, it would've been crowded.

 

[union_jak]

It wouldn't have been crowded at all.

I love what we got, but I highly doubt having Dent would make it crowded.

If the overall plot was the same, then yeah I reckon it would be crowded and we would have lost some of the good things.

I can see how they could have altered it though. DA Harvey Dent objecting to Max and his plans, discussing his feelings with Bruce etc. Shreck would tell the Penguin of Dent's interferences and the Circus gang would be sent to kill him. Batman would save him but fail to save the Ice Princess.

In the finale it could be Shreck and Dent abducted by the Penguin, and Shreck uses toxic waste on Dent's face. With him down... Catwoman appears to kill Shreck.

 

[The Kid]

I'd have really opened it up more but it's really good the way it was as this twisted metropolis, like an antithesis to superman's city.

 

[Mr. Socko]

I loved Burton's Gotham in '89 and Returns. If you were to combine them both and add more Gargoyle statues around the city, it would be 100% perfect as far as I'm concerned.

Let me dig up some pics...

 

[The Joker]

^^^ Now that's Gotham City

 

[GoogleMe94]

thats awsome. its like a comic book come to life, love it. i wish nolan would have taken this kind of appraoch to gotham instead of just going to chicago and saying "now THATS gotham!". i actually like the matte paintings alot, it adds a surreal quality to the city. and i was going to eventually get those 2 opening shots of the B89 gotham and Returns gotham. as you can plainly see, they are extremly similiar to one another. i love how both Returns and B89 open with a really cool matte type shot of gotham. love the homage to rockafellar center in Returns.