How Many of you Actually Read Comics???

[ShadowBoxing]

Then of course there is Michael Lark (DareDevil)

J.H.Williams

 

[sinewave]

i love williams' art. he's very innovaitve in his approach to paneling and storytelling. he was the one bright spot for grant morrison's agatha christie-inspired batman arc that just finished.

lark rocks, too.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Bringing back 'League of Heroes' and doing a storyline with them was a stroke of pure genius. No one else but Morrison can take dead, awful storylines from the past and make something of them...not like him.

I loved the ending too. "You bet on evil. Evil loses" *BOOM*

 

[sinewave]

that league of heroes part was cool, but the story itself didn't do much for me.

 

[javon]

I read comics all the time, although latesly I haven't visited my comic shop.

 

[K.B.]

The 90s big missteps were as follows
*The Clone Saga (2): A follow up to the original clone saga in Amazing Spider-Man 140(s). Basically the clone Parker had survived and dawned a new identity, the Scarlet Spider. As the story progressed we learned that the clone Parker we thought had died was in fact the real Parker and the one who had been kicking around for the past 250 issues or so was in fact the clone.
*Batman Broken: Bane breaks Batman's back and he is replaced with an uber violent, Punisher-esque version of himself in lethal bodyarmor. Batman X-Treme
*Superman Blue/Red: Superman was put in a blue/red costume and given electricity related powers...'nuff said.
*Onslaught: Essentially the physic resonance of Magneto and Xavier battling manifested into a monster who killed off the Fantastic Four, Avengers and Hulk. They were put into a God awful 'Heroes Reborn' Universe and the Marvel Universe essentially became 6 Spider-Man titles and like 10 X-Men titles...because if it ain't X-Men and Spider-Man I guess we can't sell it.
*Wolverine de-evolved: Wolverine is basically turned into a walking man-ape for n extended period of time...so, uh, yeah.
*Also just introducing a bunch of extreme characters with big guns ad giving everyone mullets.

The 90s also featured the "Death/Return of Superman". But, in general, this was a storyline that was critically and financially a complete success...so it's hard to write it off.

Other things include:
Amalgam
Kingdom Come
X-Men (Adjectiveless)
The Return of Spider-Man's parents

Wait....so you think Kingdom Come and Jim Lee's X-men were missteps?


Ummm...ooooookkkkkaaaayyyyy.................

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Wait....so you think Kingdom Come and Jim Lee's X-men were missteps?


Ummm...ooooookkkkkaaaayyyyy.................

Noooo , I just listed them as other things that occured in the ninties.

 

[K.B.]

Oh ok...just seemed like you were.

 

[Arkady Rossovich]

Most of the people that post in here, I never run into in any of the various comic forums, or really, any other forums for that matter. Makes me wonder, if a lot of the people who frequent the Community Forum actually read comics.

Kind of ironic..don't you think?

 

[Sun_Down]

I read, but it's been harder to get to my local shop on a weekly basis. I've been catching up on my trades lately.

 

[Shuley]

I don't read comics, I read Graphic Novels.

 

[hammy]

I do. But I don't broadcast it.

 

[K.B.]

I don't read comics, I read Graphic Novels.

No you read trade papaerbacks of comic books.

I really hate how now everyone says "graphic novels" in a cheap way to sound all sophisticated and belittle comics.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

"Graphic Novels" is a term for self-contained stories within a collected trade. For example Watchmen, DKR, God Loves Man Kills, Spider-Man:Blue, DareDevil:Man Without Fear, Batman:Year One, Kingdom Come and Marvels would all be graphic novels once collected. This is because each story has a logical start, middle and end with little carryover similar to that of a novel, or single body of text.

"Tradepaperbacks" or TPBs are anthologies of collected ongoing series. For example Ultimate Spider-Man "Venom", Ultimates vol. 1 "Super-Human", X-Men "the Draco", X-Men "Phoenix:Endsong", New X-Men "Here Comes Tomorrow" and "Days of the Future Past" would all be TPBs.

At least that's always the distinction I've drawn.

 

[BMM]

I stick mostly to Marvel titles, specifically anything X-Men related. I'm a huge X-Men fan... although I haven't been impressed by much as of late.

 

[Whirlysplat]

I do and I have for almost 34 years. I'm nearly 41.

 

[Shuley]

No you read trade papaerbacks of comic books.

I really hate how now everyone says "graphic novels" in a cheap way to sound all sophisticated and belittle comics.

wow, that joke went over your head.

 

[K.B.]

"Graphic Novels" is a term for self-contained stories within a collected trade. For example Watchmen, DKR, God Loves Man Kills, Spider-Man:Blue, DareDevil:Man Without Fear, Batman:Year One, Kingdom Come and Marvels would all be graphic novels once collected. This is because each story has a logical start, middle and end with little carryover similar to that of a novel, or single body of text.

"Tradepaperbacks" or TPBs are anthologies of collected ongoing series. For example Ultimate Spider-Man "Venom", Ultimates vol. 1 "Super-Human", X-Men "the Draco", X-Men "Phoenix:Endsong", New X-Men "Here Comes Tomorrow" and "Days of the Future Past" would all be TPBs.

At least that's always the distinction I've drawn.

Now I know you are wrong about this, especially on the examples you've given. You see, a graphic novel is actually an original story not available anywhere else. Arkham Asylum, JLA earth 2, Detective 27, God loves man kills, those are in actuality LEGITIMATE graphic novels.

The problem with many of your examples are that they contradict your definition. I'll give you 2 examples.

You list DKR, Watchmen, Marvels, Spider-man blue, Daredevil :mwof, and KC as graphic novels yet you say Phoniex endsong is a tpb. Now what do ALL these titles have in common?

They were all limited series (and one a maxi...still counts) so I ask, why do you regard all those 'great' books as graphic novels yet phoniex, which was a limited series like the rest, is a tpb?

Example the second....

You list Batman Year one as a graphic novel yet ultimate spider-man and new x-men are all listed as trades. So lets say, lets pick days of future past. Ok now what do days and YO have in common? Both were told in the original title, days in uncanny...YO in batman. So whats the difference?

Now the other problem with it is that ALL tpb's have a beggining, middle and end so that argument goes out the window.

And here where the idea of the GN becomes blurred. The idea still is out there that comcis are "for kids" so to sell movies like 300, BB and sin city the studios push to say "graphic novel" rather then comic book series just to sound more pretntious and "adult". Now this couples into the whole ignorance perpetuates ignorance so we get everyone calling DKR. watchmen etc graphic novels which is sad because instead of standing up and saying "no this is COMICS. They ARENT just 'kids stuff' and the medium has grown..see?" , which is what we should be doing, we get pretntious a holes putting down comics like batman yet praising books like YO which is just ******ed.

Here is something to think about when you hear everyone go on about the sin city and 300 graphic novles and how they are so much more intelligent then comic books....

How were these books originally published?

 

[Orko Is King]

I do. I stopped for a while when I went through my anime/manga phase when I was a youngin', but I quit that **** cold turkey and I'm back where I belong.

 

[Kritish]

Only the max series of the Punisher.

 

[Sloth7d]

I do. I stopped for a while when I went through my anime/manga phase when I was a youngin', but I quit that **** cold turkey and I'm back where I belong.

Don't knock the mangas man!

 

[chaseter]

Never read one...oh well.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Now I know you are wrong about this, especially on the examples you've given. You see, a graphic novel is actually an original story not available anywhere else. Arkham Asylum, JLA earth 2, Detective 27, God loves man kills, those are in actuality LEGITIMATE graphic novels.

The problem with many of your examples are that they contradict your definition. I'll give you 2 examples.

You list DKR, Watchmen, Marvels, Spider-man blue, Daredevil :mwof, and KC as graphic novels yet you say Phoniex endsong is a tpb. Now what do ALL these titles have in common?

They all were original series, out of continuity that told a complete story without treading on the original source material.

They were all limited series (and one a maxi...still counts) so I ask, why do you regard all those 'great' books as graphic novels yet phoniex, which was a limited series like the rest, is a tpb?

Because Phoenix:Endsong is a storyline that is not self contained, and works off of the mainstream Universe tying directly into the Morrison run. Furthermore it's not a complex storyline written like a Novel.

Example the second....

You list Batman Year one as a graphic novel yet ultimate spider-man and new x-men are all listed as trades. So lets say, lets pick days of future past. Ok now what do days and YO have in common? Both were told in the original title, days in uncanny...YO in batman. So whats the difference?

Batman:Year One is entirely out of step with the comic series while your other examples are not.

Now the other problem with it is that ALL tpb's have a beggining, middle and end so that argument goes out the window.

They.aren't.written.like.novels. They are written like episodes. They are episodic. The other storylines are not, they are self contained. Episodic means that it's akin to a chapter in a book, and while the plot of the episode is resolved (Doc Ock goes off to jail), the over arching story remains. I.e. the chapter may end in a cliffhanger, may start a relationship, may introduce a character who will have an upcoming storyline. For example, Phoenix:Endsong ends with Jean going off to find her pieces in the white hot room....leaving a huge portion of the story unresolved.

And here where the idea of the GN becomes blurred. The idea still is out there that comcis are "for kids" so to sell movies like 300, BB and sin city the studios push to say "graphic novel" rather then comic book series just to sound more pretntious and "adult". Now this couples into the whole ignorance perpetuates ignorance so we get everyone calling DKR. watchmen etc graphic novels which is sad because instead of standing up and saying "no this is COMICS. They ARENT just 'kids stuff' and the medium has grown..see?" , which is what we should be doing, we get pretntious a holes putting down comics like batman yet praising books like YO which is just ******ed.

Not really, certain work is better than other work. Anyone with a High School english course can tell you why trash novels are inherently worse than Charles Dickens no matter how they feel about his writing.

Here is something to think about when you hear everyone go on about the sin city and 300 graphic novles and how they are so much more intelligent then comic books....

How were these books originally published?

With a printing press. You also fail to understand that for a while people wouldn't print anthology comics. But some series, like Squadron Supreme, were obviously written for Graphic Novel format. And even God Loves, Man Kills, which you mention was originally intended for the mainstream title...but was removed due to disputes about whether it should be included. So, no, not every comic published outside of bound format is printed that way on purpose. Frank Miller calls both "Year One" and DKR graphic novels in his forewards. So that means his intention was to publish them in graphic novel format...no matter how they originally came out. The E-I-C of Marvel Comics refers to Squadron Supreme, a maxi, as a graphic novel.

Wrong, wrong, all wrong. All you've given is Alan Moore's complaint about Graphic Novels, who insists they should just be 'comic books'...he also insists that anyone else who uses a character he writes is a hack, but he likes to complain

...the official definition according to CGC is

A graphic novel is a set of collected comic books or a stand alone story that is squarebound. Graphic novels are usually cheaper than the collected comic books and are often found in book stores.

A graphic novel is a type of comic book, usually with a lengthy and complex storyline similar to those of novels, and often aimed at mature audiences. The term also encompasses comic short story anthologies, and in some cases bound collections of previously published comic-book series.

Examples:Sandman - Endless Nights (Gaiman), Batman: Hush (Jeph Loeb and Jim Lee), Batman: Arkham Asylum (Grant Morrison and Dave McKean), Marvel 1602 (Gaiman, Kubert, and Isanove), Superman: Red Son (Millar, Johnson, Plunkett, Robinson, Wong), Batman: Dark Knight Returns (Frank Miller)

In comics, a trade paperback (TPB or simply trade) specifically refers to a collection of stories originally published in comic books reprinted in book format, usually capturing one story arc from a single title or a series of stories with a connected story arc or common theme from one or more titles. Traditionally, a trade paperback will reproduce the stories at the same size as they were originally presented in comic book format; recently, however, certain trades have been published in a smaller, "digest"-sized format, similar in size to a paperback novel. This smaller size is intended to appeal to newer generations of American readers whose first exposure to a comic book format was the English-translated reprints of digest-sized Japanese comics, also known as manga. The term graphic novel is sometimes used interchangeably, but many people maintain that the terms are distinct.

Meaning, yes there is a problem defining them distinctly. But the fact is Graphic Novels can be previously printed in comic formate.

Try researching your rants next time you make them, kay

 

[millennium movies]

I dont, but since last week i've been hooked on the Watchmen graphic novel i got from the library. Im probably going to get myself The Killing Joke and The Long Halloween next.

 

[K.B.]

Sorry champ I know what I'm talking about here and even when you used your "reseach souces" they still contradicted stuff you'd said.

They all were original series, out of continuity that told a complete story without treading on the original source material.

Really? thats funny because spider-man blue takes place during and between issues of amazing spider-man. Same with Marvels. Takes palce during the 60's stuff.

Because Phoenix:Endsong is a storyline that is not self contained, and works off of the mainstream Universe tying directly into the Morrison run. Furthermore it's not a complex storyline written like a Novel.

Once again, Marvels, SM.blue, DD: mwof, and infact pretty much all comics work works off of the mainstream universe. Also your claim of "not written like a complex novel"..neither were most of your examples. In fact the only real complex thing on that list was Watchmen.

Batman:Year One is entirely out of step with the comic series while your other examples are not.

So anyone who does a fill in story means they made a graphic novel? because (other then the fact that YO was planned to be in the reguler batman title) thats what it was...4 fill in issues.

They.aren't.written.like.novels. They are written like episodes. They are episodic. The other storylines are not, they are self contained.

Your stuck on this novels comparison and forget the fact that comics are episodic. Also once again, comics aren't written like novels and I don't know where your getting this idea from. Have you picked up anything reprinted from an ongoing lately? You can't tell it's reprinted fro ma serialized comic book because they are written as 6 issue arcs as a means to make it easier to turn into a graphic novle/tpb.

Not really, certain work is better than other work. Anyone with a High School english course can tell you why trash novels are inherently worse than Charles Dickens no matter how they feel about his writing.

No because it's all a matter of opinion. Someone might think Phionex warsong is on par with DKR or other "great" comics work. Simlier as how someone might like trashy romance novels over Dickens. Just because it has a 'name' writter on it dosent mean it's great. Here is an example...Stephan King. He was and is still regarded as a "trash" writer even thoguh he has made millions, is a consistant on bestseller lists and is a hosehold name. Similer with Shakespeare. If he was alive and writing today, he wouldn't be writing "great works" like he is known for.

With a printing press. You also fail to understand that for a while people wouldn't print anthology comics. But some series, like Squadron Supreme, were obviously written for Graphic Novel format. And even God Loves, Man Kills, which you mention was originally intended for the mainstream title...but was removed due to disputes about whether it should be included. So, no, not every comic published outside of bound format is printed that way on purpose.

Wrong, wrong, all wrong. All you've given is Alan Moore's complaint about Graphic Novels, who insists they should just be 'comic books'...he also insists that anyone else who uses a character he writes is a hack, but he likes to complain

Funny you go on about how people wouldnt print anthology comics yet thats exactly where Sin City got its start. Dark Horse Presents. An anthology comic. Squadron Supreme was written as a maxi serise pal not "for a gn". So does that mean the original Warlord comic is a gn? The simple fact is, yet you refuse to realize or admit, is that ANY limited series can be reprinted and labled a 'graphic novel'. Als oregardless of where they originally wanted to print GLMK it was stillr eleased as an original graphic novel from marvel comics and in fact was one of theyre first.

LMAO and whats wrong with agreeing with Alan Moore? The man has a point and he's a genius whos name on a cover, by your definitons, makes Watchmen a GN and not a limited comic series.