Homecoming How to handle retreading ground...

[HarryOsborn]

As of 2016 we will have had 3 different Spider-Man franchises in the past 10 years- and the beginning of two of them within the last 5. Thinking back on what's happened, though we've had 5 films that have covered a lot ground on Spider-Man's most iconic stories. A lot thing happened that defined the character in the comics- Goblin, death of Gwen, black suit, Spider-Man no more, etc. While there are other stories that could be utilized, these stories really should be incorporated into Marvel's version of Peter Parker. However I don't think anyone wants to watch Harry go from friend to enemy again, Gwen be "shockingly" killed off again, or the origin again- which leaves the issue of how to handle this unique instance.

My person solution would be retaining the key core aspects of these story arcs and modifying them in new ways so they don't feel so tired and played out. For example Daredevil made a brilliant move in the form of killing off Ben Urich- one of Marvel's big players across several titles. This raised the stakes as we knew then that anyone could get the chop, not just characters who are more expendable or died in the comics like say Karen Page (who could have easily just been replaced with Elektra as the love interest in season 2).

Some ideas off the top of my head- Mary Jane, Harry, or another major player is killed off instead of Gwen Stacy as a result of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. This would give the film the same impact that the comic book had since killing off Gwen was so shocking and unheard of back in the 70s, while today it's what would be expected as everyone knows what happened to Gwen. Harry would be ideal- it would show how evil Norman is for disregarding the life of his own son, play up the tragedy of his character, and come out of left field as the audience would be expecting Peter's romantic interest.

 

[Webhead2006]

personally i see no reason just cause the raimi or webb films have covered certain stories already or certain characters. That there is no reason we cant see marvel use those characters or stories and make there own marks and twists on those. All we need is good written stories and people can easily forget oh they did this before. IF marvel can make it better we can easily see stories redone.

But like others have said we dont need to jump right to goblins or venom or lizard/ock for this first film. As full on villains we really dont need to see them to either 3rd film or some point in phase 4 be it in a spidey or a team up mcu film. But like i have said in other threads. There is no reason we cant or should see brock, conners, otto, norman in the solo films including this first new one a a minor, supporting bit players. Who are being built up and we see their rise and fall from grace play out over the series. So once they do make the villain turn down the road there you go you have built up love/hate relationship with them.

As for origins like i and others have said for the first solo. We could easily do it ala TIH and have spider bite, crook being let go, ben dying-giving the power & responsibility speech during opening credits and handled all within the first 3 to 5 mins of the film. Or if we get a villain like mysterio and besides his illusions he tosses hyponitic/hallucination gas at peter at some point. We could see some twisted dream like state versions of those key origin parts.

AS for killing off guys. in the spidey world personally i dont think they will swap deaths. WE need to keep the classic deaths in place, ben, george, gwen, jean dewolffe. no reason to kill off mj, betty, liz, etc..... character. Now sure that doesnt mean we have to have the guys who should be dead die same way as comics did. They could change things up a bit.

 

[PeterBenParker]

I'd be fine with Harry dying, to be honest.

For four films now, we've had pretty much the same story with Harry (just using minor tweaks) and I'd like to see something different with the character, even if that ends up in death.

Of course keep the essentials, such as him striving for his Dad's approval, but why does he absolutely need to become a Goblin in the future? Why not have his drug addiction come into the fold after depression sinks in that he'll never be what his father wanted? Why not take a cue from the Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon and actually have him be Venom (as unpopular as the idea is)?

Just give me something a little bit different with the character, should we see him for the third time.

 

[Webhead2006]

i say no for venom or what usm comics did and turn him into hobgoblin. I rather keep looking for his dad's love and approval angle, develop romance with liz, dabble into his drug problem. Then either have him die from drugs/or possible goblin est thing.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Having Norman Osborn be a real villain would be a start.

I don't think they have to do the origin story again. I mean, at this point, literally everyone and their mother knows how Peter Parker became Spider-man. We don't need to see that a third time. It was unnecessary in the last franchise.

 

[ernesth100]

-Okay first of all have Harry just be a friend with daddy issues for the first 3 films. Possibly be the 3rd film he goes through a break up with Liz, Gwen or MJ whoever they pair him with or falls into depression because of something with his father or a mixture of both and develops a drug problem. It'd also be nice if he got the drugs from Kingpin. I believe he doesn't have to be a Goblin or Venom. There are enough Goblin alternatives that aren't Norman or Harry. Hobgoblin(the one that isn't Harry), Jack O Lantern, Menace, etc.

 

[Frodo]

The way I see it, Feige is communicating already that the first film at least, is going to be something new and fresh , so i'm not worried about retreading. A younger Peter Parker, expanded MCU, The Hughes approach, smaller stakes, and new villains, already assures me that there won't be that much retreading during the Highschool years at least.

I think if fans are waiting to see the Goblin saga, the Venom Saga, storylines, etc again right off the bat , they're going to be disappointed. That said, there are certain characters, themes, and ideas which are inherent and essential to the myth anyway , and could be done in new and interesting ways. For example, I think Norman Osborn is gonna have a far greater role in the MCU than just one appearence as the Goblin then being killed off. By the same token, I think we'll see more of Peter's HS supporting cast than in the previous films.

Ultimately, starting the character in HS and without the origin again gives the creative team room to grow and to possibly build toward some of the classic stories. Ultimately its about choosing to do the best stories as opposed to trying to do all the classic stories for the sake of doing them.

 

[Webhead2006]

yea i dont expect goblin/ock/venom right out of the gate. But like i brought up a few times i still expect to see any of these guys in pre villain forms even in the first film as a minor/bit role to start building them up.

 

[metaphysician]

Best thing they could do is simply not use any Goblins or Osbornes at all. Spider-man has a giant rogues gallery and supporting cast, it does not all have to revolve around guys throwing pumpkins.

 

[ThePhantasm]

I'd like to see a comics-faithful interpretation of the Green Goblin, and I think it would feel very fresh.

Doc Ock would be another great villain to use.

 

[Webhead2006]

come on no way they wont do goblins or norman/harry in the series. Same goes with brock, conners, ock. These are key and important players in the spidey mythos. We are bound to see them all again. Best thing like many of us have said. Just looking right now at 3 solos. We should not have any of those characters be "VILLAINS" in at least the first two films. So we can get a few new and different guys first. Then use them. But we should see norman/harry/otto/eddie/curt in pre villain states throughout the whole series. There is nothing wrong with that.

 

[Oscorp]

I'd like to see a comics-faithful interpretation of the Green Goblin, and I think it would feel very fresh.

Doc Ock would be another great villain to use.

This!

No need to do dumb and crappy changes like making Harry Venom for this series to feel fresh.

 

[Webhead2006]

totally i want to see a more comics take on any of the goblins when we see them suited up. I brought this up before in other threads. There is no reason we couldnt get a more comics accurate suit on gobby. If it was a suit like a cross between cap/winter solider/falcon with some sort of mask/helmet with i say drop the silly elf hat and do like green arrow/hobgoblin and go hoodie deal. We could easily see a more correct looking goblin happen.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

Follow 616. Don't make unnecessary changes i.e. contrived elements that do not fit the story nor benefit the film.

There's plenty of room for surprises and ways you can twist the original tales without adding or taking away from what makes them so great. I still read those early Lee/Ditko and Romita comics and they're always awesome--only in need of an update to fit modern times.

 

[OcStat]

As much as I enjoy the Raimi movies they took liberties with certain things that maybe weren't necessary but served their respective movies well, of course those decisions were more dubious in Spider-Man 3. I still think they shot themselves in the foot a bit, going for the biggest most iconic moments wrapped in one package in the first film, mainly referring to the last third or so of Spider-Man. We see his greatest battle with his greatest villain because it's the greatest, but it's not Gwen it's Mary Jane, and of course she doesn't die, so when and how were they ever going to do Gwen properly? When it came to use her, she was basically shoe-horned in to the point of irrelevance. They just couldn't plan for the long game back in the early '00's like the can now, but at that moment in time it works because you have all of Spidey's epic moments in a well made 2 hour package.

We deserve to see villains from the long list of those that have yet to be adapted, and we deserve to have the ones that were, adapted properly.

We could've built to the Sinister 6 the first time around, but nope. We almost got the Sinister 6 the second time around, but nope, and thanks for that.

Marvel Studios is the only group of people I think we can trust to build to something that epic and pull it off. One hero, versus 6 of his greatest foes, at once.

 

[Oscorp]

Follow 616. Don't make unnecessary changes i.e. contrived elements that do not fit the story nor benefit the film.

There's plenty of room for surprises and ways you can twist the original tales without adding or taking away from what makes them so great. I still read those early Lee/Ditko and Romita comics and they're always awesome--only in need of an update to fit modern times.

Well said!

 

[CaptainWagner]

Stick with unused villains for the first few films.


And please, don't avoid chracters just because they've been done befor. I'd hate for them to skip Gwen because of TASM.

 

[Webhead2006]

Ya come on no way they won't use all key spidey giys. Yes hold off on ock norman Eddie as villains off the bat. But they should be around.

 

[Angryfantasyfan]

As much as I enjoy the Raimi movies they took liberties with certain things that maybe weren't necessary but served their respective movies well, of course those decisions were more dubious in Spider-Man 3. I still think they shot themselves in the foot a bit, going for the biggest most iconic moments wrapped in one package in the first film, mainly referring to the last third or so of Spider-Man. We see his greatest battle with his greatest villain because it's the greatest, but it's not Gwen it's Mary Jane, and of course she doesn't die, so when and how were they ever going to do Gwen properly? When it came to use her, she was basically shoe-horned in to the point of irrelevance. They just couldn't plan for the long game back in the early '00's like the can now, but at that moment in time it works because you have all of Spidey's epic moments in a well made 2 hour package.

There was no guarantee Spider-Man would be successful enough to warrant a sequel, nor do we know if it would have been a phenomenal hit without those elements.

 

[OcStat]

I know, and frankly if we never made it passed Spider-Man 1, that wouldn't even be a complaint from me. But after that I knew there would be stories they could either never adapt, or never adapt properly.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

I think they will do MJ again because she is more important than Gwen, and Gwen is too recent and they won't want to copy too much from ASM movies.

 

[ThePhantasm]

I think you need to start off with a big villain. Ock, while he's been done before, hasn't been used recently. He's associated with the best Spider-Man movie of all time. He seems like the logical choice to get the franchise going.

The problem with "unused villains" is that many of the only ones remaining are dull. I don't want to see something again where a C-lister like the Lizard is the main villain of a film.

 

[OcStat]

The Lizard isn't a C-Lister! Though he might come off that way now after Amazing. I think the Scorpion could be a neat villian and hopefully done right with JJJ's involvement so we can get more development on him as well.

Pretty sure they said they weren't going to go for the big romance in the first Spider-Man this time around. Even if they did, there's a few other characters they can use before Mary Jane and Gwen. Maybe they could all be in a group of friends, or Aunt May trying to set Peter up with MJ while he dodges them, straight from the books. They could use Liz Allen or Betty Brant, and have Peter go through the whole "This won't work because I'm Spider-Man" lesson with someone he isn't[/] supposed to end up with, so when he finally matches up with MJ or Gwen it's less about whether or not their relationship will work (ala Spider-Man 1, 2, and Amazing 2) and the struggles of making it work, like Spider-Man 3 but hopefully good.

 

[Webhead2006]

Again for me just cause we saw harry norman curt gwen last teo films. We should see everyonr. Villains wise norman, curt, otto, eddie in ore villain states in bit supporting rokes. Building up there characters. Then after 2 or 3 films we see them go bad. Remember this isn't just 3 and done films. We are in mcu now.

As for non villain roles. With Kevin talking of really using spidey supporting pkayers. I fully expect to see gwen, mj, harry, liz, kong, flash. For school mates. Then gorge Stacy and Jean dewolffe for nyc police. Then the standard bugle folks and all. Remember not everyone has to be in the film for 30 or 40 mins. To still be around.

 

[metaphysician]

I'd say Scorpion has better claim to being a C-lister than the Lizard. Not only is the Lizard older, but he has a more interesting and flexible premise, and can serve as a friendly supporting character when not actively villaining. With the Scorpion, the only thing beyond "thug with powers" he has is "created by JJJ", and that element would be best dropped if you don't want the audience to view JJJ as a black hat villain with karmic immunity.