How would X-Men be rebooted?

[DrCosmic]

Hmmm, that is true... I do see the unfortunate implications there. I'll think on this...

 

[Shikamaru]

I think you misinterpreted my post, I wasn't saying it should never be rebooted, I was just commenting on those suggesting going back to the original five... I was saying if/when they reboot it should be with a new team that we haven't seen (but, still should be a reboot in theme, tone, an over all feel) I'd differently would want them to break free of the OT set universe

which down the line could lead to reintroducing characters that were used in the OT, but, I think it'd be important to reestablish the universe over all first, then reintroducing those characters into that universe, so the changes to the characters don't feel as forced (change for the sake of change) which so, many reboots suffer from

Out of the original five, I think Cyclops and Angel are big exceptions since they were barely used. Cyclops especially. Having a new Jean can also work, since some time would have passed by then since she was done (The Wolverine dream sequences not counting).

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I sometimes wonder if X-Men is too stale to reboot. I mean, we're 6 films in, and we've got at least 3 more to go in this established continuity. Is Joe Public going to be hankering for a new take on X-Men after 9 films, and 20 years of Hollywood presence? It might require a lengthy hiatus. (Of course, Fox needs to make movies, so that will never happen...)

I can see your point. We've had six films already (four of them good) and more to come. By the time this next run is done, I'm going to be more interested in seeing something different like X-Force or X-Factor or something like that.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

Martian Manhunter, Vision, now electro turned blue and the Spectre at one point too, just to name a few. Everytime there is a team without a character who wasn't originally black, they turn into black the one with fewer human characteristics and where therefore, the changed ethnicy will not be as obvious.

It's partially unintentional, but it still looks kind of shady, not very different than the usual rule of "Token Black Guy"

Thought you meant in the movies

 

[metaphysician]

I haven't previously posted on this thread, but so, thoughts on how to reboot the X-Men. Specifically, how to reboot the X-Men into the MCU. Not so much a storyline, as a bunch of guidelines:

1. Mutation is a new phenomenon. Or rather, its not new in the sense of never having happened before, but in terms of being a noticeable cultural phenomenon, its new. In earlier years, there were mutants, but they were relatively few, and blended in amongst all the other varieties of "gifted" that various parties tracked.

2. Until one day, something changed. Now, the rate of genetic anomaly has skyrocketed, so whereas once there may have been dozens of identifiable mutants, now there are hundreds, thousands, and climbing. Within a space of a few years, naturally occurring genetic superhumans have gone from being one type amongst many oddities, freaks, and wonders, to being a demographic.

3. The world at large is still figuring out how to react to this, because its new. Everything is in flux, and the effects are similar or greater to the public arrival of aliens. Note that this specifically does *not* mean "genocidal paranoia" as a default. The reaction, as appropriate for the MCU, should be widely variable, but "cautiously positive" would be a good standard.

4. For that matter, *mutants* are still trying to figure out how to react to this. With scant few exceptions, every mutant became a superhuman just recently. Are they a new species? A new minority? Is the label "mutant" an unfair imposition upon what are really countless individuals? Should "we" even distinguish between normal humans and mutants?

5. The primary center points for the new potential mutant society are two mutants who actually predated this vast wave, Charles Xavier and Erik Lehsherr, naturally enough. Both have had genetic superpowers for 10+ years at this point, both are geniuses, and between them they did a great deal of early research on genetic superpowers, such that both of them realized the implications of certain evidence: that genetic superpowers were going to spread, and grow more and more common.

6. Contrary to what if often the case, they are *not* simply a case of "Xavier: Good, Magneto: Evil". Rather, the dynamic is more a matter of focus. Xavier wishes to focus on organization and public relations, to teach mutants how to be ambassadors to the greater world, carrying a set of messages carefully designed by Xavier to encourage tolerance and assimilation. Magneto, by contrast, is more concerned with the actual safety and freedom of mutants, to live their lives as they choose, and is a champion who stands to protect mutants from those who would cause them harm.

7. Both Xavier and Magneto have mixed relationships with the authorities. Xavier has all the appearances of a humanitarian, who helps mutants learn to safely use their powers, and encourages a charitable ideology. OTOH, he's also a terrifyingly powerful telepath who seems to be in the process of bringing as many mutants as possible into his ideological ( cult of personality? ) influence. Magneto is an uncompromising figure who is not afraid to use force in the name of protecting mutants from harm, and is considered a public enemy in a number of different nations ( like North Korea ). OTOH, he isn't really that much more vigilante than any other big name superhero, and publicly denounces ( or worse ) mutants using their powers to do random crime and villainy.

8. So, pick your side: The proselytizing do-gooders working for a vaguely cultic organization run by a mind controlling mastermind? Or the international freedom fighters with varying degrees of government disapproval depending on which dictatorship they just unilaterally invaded? Or someone else, as everyone wants to recruit mutants other than the hardcore "Friend for Humanity" types. Or go it alone, and set your own course.

 

[TheHeatKitchen]

Mutation was a slowly growing phenomenon, generation by generation. Until in present day, they seem to be everywhere. Excessive caffeine intake is speeding up the mass mutations of the species. A war ensues between humans, mutants looking for peace and mutants fighting to be the superior race...

Brought to you by Mountain Dew.
Choose your side.
Vote on the new flavor.
Mutated Melon, Ferocious Freedom Fighter Fruit Punch or Human Rights Ham Salad.

 

[psylockolussus]

Maybe something like in X-Men Legends/X-Men Legends II. All essential X-Men members are already in the team like Wolverine, Cyclops, Iceman, Jean, Cyclops, Storm, Nightcrawler, Colossus, Psylocke, Angel, Jubilee, Emma Frost, Beast, Rogue, Shadowcat but they don't all appear for the 1st time at the same time. Angel and Shadowcat didn't appear in the 1st videogame but in the 2nd, they are already established members of the X-Men and they already know one another.

 

[The Overlord]

I'd be down for the Ultimate X-Men route

That is a possibility though it might be harder to do with an ensemble cast

Wasn't Magneto pure evil in the Ultimate Universe and didn't Wolverine try to murder Cyclops just to get with Jean Grey? I'm not sure what things you would take from the UU, but there are lots of things from the UU that would not work for the general audience.

 

[Shoppy]

Wasn't Magneto pure evil in the Ultimate Universe and didn't Wolverine try to murder Cyclops just to get with Jean Grey? I'm not sure what things you would take from the UU, but there are lots of things from the UU that would not work for the general audience.

Also...

Ultimate Cable = Ultimate Logan

:/

 

[superherofreak]

All I know is that Professor X is back and now loving it more then ever. Although, I am still waiting for the sentinels. See them with with CGI, would be amazing!

 

[The Question]

My fantasy is the X-Men franchise rebooted as a TV series. With it's cast of thousands and long winding story lines, X-Men is much better suited for television than the big screen anyway. A TV series would certainly allow for more X-Men characters to share the spotlight, and it would make it easier to get into the really weird epic stuff, like Apocalypse and a proper Dark Phoenix Saga.

I think a live action X-Men TV series should initially focus on the original 5 X-Men. Save Wolverine for season 2.

As for the race issue, I think if any of the original X-Men should get a facelift, it should be Cyclops. Young minority actors rarely get the chance to play dorky conservative stick in the muds unless it's in a sitcom.

 

[SuperT]

I would KILL for a live-action X-Men television show but it would be so incredibly expensive to produce that I don't think any network would be able to keep it running. Heroes got through four seasons with limited power displays and it was still like 4 million+ per episode.

We'd either get limited power displays like on "Heroes" in order to keep the fx and budget down or get very Saturday afternoon-esque fx like on AoS.

 

[Figs]

My fantasy is the X-Men franchise rebooted as a TV series. With it's cast of thousands and long winding story lines, X-Men is much better suited for television than the big screen anyway. A TV series would certainly allow for more X-Men characters to share the spotlight, and it would make it easier to get into the really weird epic stuff, like Apocalypse and a proper Dark Phoenix Saga.

I think a live action X-Men TV series should initially focus on the original 5 X-Men. Save Wolverine for season 2.

As for the race issue, I think if any of the original X-Men should get a facelift, it should be Cyclops. Young minority actors rarely get the chance to play dorky conservative stick in the muds unless it's in a sitcom.

A proper Dark Phoenix Saga...on TV? Good luck with that budget wise.

 

[Mr.M]

I think after Fox's continuity in the filmverse runs its course (with major X-Men releases), they will look at TV. They will probably release a spinoff every 3-4 years to maintain rights, but you can do a small budget series based on Z-list mutants that are too small for a full feature film. Tackle the sort the beginnings of the mutant issue following the events in DoFP (or Apocalypse). Have it take place in the 70's-90's in the existing continuity or another timeline entirely. Definitely think there is room there for something, although who knows if that allows Fox to maintain film rights. Probably not.

 

[psylockolussus]

Look at TV? Fox doesn't even have the rights to a make a X-Men TV series.

 

[Raiden]

I'll probably reboot X-Men using Giant-Sized X-Men #1, with Cyclops, Storm, Wolverine, Colossus, Nightcrawler, and instead of Thunderbird I'd use other X-Men like Kitty Pryde, Jean Grey, and Ice Man.

 

[roach]

I would do an adaptation of Giant Sized X-Men #1...old team gets captured...Xavier recruits a new team

 

[DrCosmic]

My fantasy is the X-Men franchise rebooted as a TV series. With it's cast of thousands and long winding story lines, X-Men is much better suited for television than the big screen anyway. A TV series would certainly allow for more X-Men characters to share the spotlight, and it would make it easier to get into the really weird epic stuff, like Apocalypse and a proper Dark Phoenix Saga.

I think a live action X-Men TV series should initially focus on the original 5 X-Men. Save Wolverine for season 2.

As for the race issue, I think if any of the original X-Men should get a facelift, it should be Cyclops. Young minority actors rarely get the chance to play dorky conservative stick in the muds unless it's in a sitcom.

Here here. Good call on Cyclops. I thought about that and then I was like 'no, you can't do that!' But yeah, it totally works.

Plus, people would stop calling me Geordi when I'm wearing my Cyclops visor. :/

I would KILL for a live-action X-Men television show but it would be so incredibly expensive to produce that I don't think any network would be able to keep it running. Heroes got through four seasons with limited power displays and it was still like 4 million+ per episode.

We'd either get limited power displays like on "Heroes" in order to keep the fx and budget down or get very Saturday afternoon-esque fx like on AoS.

Honestly... the effects in the X-Men movies, Nightcrawler's intro notwithstanding, aren't that impressive either. We don't have full on Matrix Revolutions/Man of Steel-like brawls. But I don't think the X-Men really do all that anyway. Many X-Men naturally limit the use of their powers, like Cyclops and Rogue, and some are just downright cheap like Jean Grey, Professor X, Wolverine, Banshee, Beast and more.

A proper Dark Phoenix Saga...on TV? Good luck with that budget wise.

That's actually quite doable if you focus on the human moments, and don't try to spend an inordinate amount of time in space. The only significant challenge would be that whole fight against the Shi'ar Imperial Guard. That might have to be reduced to just a fight against Gladiator. In the end though, it's easier to do the Dark Phoenix Saga in 10 hours on 100 million dollars than 2 hours on 200 million dollars.

 

[Shoppy]

Whether it's completely rebooted (which I hope it isn't) or "evolved" (which thankfully seems more likely), I'd like to see the X-Men movie univere where we have the following...

The original five X-Men at some point operating as "X-Factor Investigations"

X-Force (maybe initially led by Bishop and then later by Cable?)

Enough mutants based at the school for 2 teams made up of the more senior X-Men and the New Mutants at the school.

Ain't nothin' finer in X-Men than a frame of several teams meeeting up. Same goes for Avengers

 

[The Overlord]

My fantasy is the X-Men franchise rebooted as a TV series. With it's cast of thousands and long winding story lines, X-Men is much better suited for television than the big screen anyway. A TV series would certainly allow for more X-Men characters to share the spotlight, and it would make it easier to get into the really weird epic stuff, like Apocalypse and a proper Dark Phoenix Saga.

I think a live action X-Men TV series should initially focus on the original 5 X-Men. Save Wolverine for season 2.

As for the race issue, I think if any of the original X-Men should get a facelift, it should be Cyclops. Young minority actors rarely get the chance to play dorky conservative stick in the muds unless it's in a sitcom.

Except a lot the stuff you mentioned would not work on a TV budget. The Phoenix Saga and Apocalypse would not work on a TV budget, no way. There is a reason why there were more human Cylons then robot ones in Battlestar Galactica or so many of the aliens in Star Trek are humans with bumpy fore heads, because you would blow your budget for the entire season on one episode otherwise. Having a character like Apocalypse, who's powers would eat up the budget for an X-Men series in one episode, would not be feasible.

That's actually quite doable if you focus on the human moments, and don't try to spend an inordinate amount of time in space. The only significant challenge would be that whole fight against the Shi'ar Imperial Guard. That might have to be reduced to just a fight against Gladiator. In the end though, it's easier to do the Dark Phoenix Saga in 10 hours on 100 million dollars than 2 hours on 200 million dollars.

You would not spend a 100 million dollars on a couple of episodes though, that's not how TV works. I don't think X-Men works on a TV budget period. When they did the Battle of Black Water Bay in season 2 of Game of Thrones, that one episode cost far more then any other episode that season, so even just fighting Gladiator on a TV budget, would be pretty tough though, because the effects involved would far more involved then the ones in "Blackwater". No offense, but I do think some people have unrealistic exceptions about what you can do with a live action TV series, in terms of special effects.

 

[Figs]

Except a lot the stuff you mentioned would not work on a TV budget. The Phoenix Saga and Apocalypse would not work on a TV budget, no way. There is a reason why there were more human Cylons then robot ones in Battlestar Galactica or so many of the aliens in Star Trek are humans with bumpy fore heads, because you would blow your budget for the entire season on one episode otherwise. Having a character like Apocalypse, who's powers would eat up the budget for an X-Men series in one episode, would not be feasible.



You would not spend a 100 million dollars on a couple of episodes though, that's not how TV works. I don't think X-Men works on a TV budget period. When they did the Battle of Black Water Bay in season 2 of Game of Thrones, that one episode cost far more then any other episode that season, so even just fighting Gladiator on a TV budget, would be pretty tough though, because the effects involved would far more involved then the ones in "Blackwater". No offense, but I do think some people have unrealistic exceptions about what you can do with a live action TV series, in terms of special effects.

Exactly!

Also, while I haven't read the books, I hear the Battle of Black Water Bay was incredibly weak and really trimmed down from the books. I enjoyed the hell out of it but as you said, that one episode was the most expensive that season and they still had to cut out a lot from the book.

I don't mind if they were to try the Phoenix Saga again in a film or a couple of films cutting down some of the stuff from the comics but for a TV show, even going on for multiple episodes that would turn out to be longer than the run time of a few movies would still be hard to do.

 

[DrCosmic]

Except a lot the stuff you mentioned would not work on a TV budget. The Phoenix Saga and Apocalypse would not work on a TV budget, no way. There is a reason why there were more human Cylons then robot ones in Battlestar Galactica or so many of the aliens in Star Trek are humans with bumpy fore heads, because you would blow your budget for the entire season on one episode otherwise. Having a character like Apocalypse, who's powers would eat up the budget for an X-Men series in one episode, would not be feasible.

What powers are these? Most of Apocalypse's powers: super strength, size changing, regeneration, telepathy, telekinesis, technopathy and being a big blue skinned armoerd guy have been done on TV well and cheaply for decades. Why would it all of a sudden eat up a budget?

If Apocalypse were a CGI character, or non-emotive, the BSG comparison would make sense. If he were anything more than a bumpy forehead alien, the Star Trek comparison would make sense.

You would not spend a 100 million dollars on a couple of episodes though, that's not how TV works. I don't think X-Men works on a TV budget period. When they did the Battle of Black Water Bay in season 2 of Game of Thrones, that one episode cost far more then any other episode that season, so even just fighting Gladiator on a TV budget, would be pretty tough though, because the effects involved would far more involved then the ones in "Blackwater". No offense, but I do think some people have unrealistic exceptions about what you can do with a live action TV series, in terms of special effects.

Why would spending 100 million over 10 episodes mean spending 100 million on a couple episodes? What is your vision for the X-Men? I think you're imagining something a little flashier than the books actually come across. Just because someone can blow up the world, doesn't mean that you have to show it over and over and eat up your budget. When you deal with the high powered characters, they're not on screen maxing out their powers constantly.

Gladiator has super strength and super speed. These powers are extremely cheap to make happen on television. You have him fly in (your big SFX shot) you have him wreck shop with super strength and speed (minor FX, some stunts and prop work) and you have a big epic fight for less than the cost of Blackwater.

Duplicating the comic book panels would be expensive, but doing the story, and all the emotion that goes with it is absolutely doable on a TV budget. It would not be easy, but it's far easier than doing the story justice in film, where you can have Gladiator fly around, but you can't tell half the story of Jean's journey because you only have two hours and the movie has to cater to 3-4 other characters.

Same concept goes for Phoenix and Apocalypse.

Exactly!

Also, while I haven't read the books, I hear the Battle of Black Water Bay was incredibly weak and really trimmed down from the books. I enjoyed the hell out of it but as you said, that one episode was the most expensive that season and they still had to cut out a lot from the book.

I don't mind if they were to try the Phoenix Saga again in a film or a couple of films cutting down some of the stuff from the comics but for a TV show, even going on for multiple episodes that would turn out to be longer than the run time of a few movies would still be hard to do.

That's not the way films work. If you have 6-10 classic X-Men stories, you can't take one and spread it across two films. Do the same with Apocalypse? Days of Future Past? God Loves Man Kills? In order to do the story for films, you have to cut out a lot of what made the story good and go with the strengths of films: showing off people's powers. And honestly, films don't really do all that great with that, do they? And again, for X-Men, these stories have already been done, so in doing the Phoenix Saga for film, you come across as rehashing X-Men 3 (shudder) instead of expanding on it, and showing how shallow it was, all you can do is give it better special effects. That's not impressive to me.

This is on top of how the films can never capture the feeling of the X-Men because they don't have time for more than 2-3 characters.

 

[Figs]

That's not the way films work. If you have 6-10 classic X-Men stories, you can't take one and spread it across two films. Do the same with Apocalypse? Days of Future Past? God Loves Man Kills? In order to do the story for films, you have to cut out a lot of what made the story good and go with the strengths of films: showing off people's powers. And honestly, films don't really do all that great with that, do they?

I already mentioned that you have to cut some things out to bring some of these larger stories to the big screen. With that being said, you don't have to cut out everything that "made the story good" and only go with showing of the mutant abilities the whole time.

As for "films don't really do all that great with that". I heavily disagree. I felt the drama aspect of the first two X-men films as well as First Class and The Wolverine were pretty good and at the same time they were also able to "show off people's powers". Yes, when you adapt a big story like the Phoenix Saga it would take 2-3 films to do it justice where a TV show could give it numerous episodes but once again the budget limitations on a TV show would involve cutting out a lot from the story as well.

And again, for X-Men, these stories have already been done, so in doing the Phoenix Saga for film, you come across as rehashing X-Men 3 (shudder) instead of expanding on it, and showing how shallow it was, all you can do is give it better special effects. That's not impressive to me.

This is on top of how the films can never capture the feeling of the X-Men because they don't have time for more than 2-3 characters.

Doing the Phoenix Saga justice would not be rehashing X-men 3. The only real similarity would of course be Jean Grey turning into the Phoenix but X3 got just about everything else wrong to where a closer adaptation would be entirely different and no it wouldn't just mean giving it better special effects. There are so many characters cut from the comic story when they did X3, not to mention X3 also wanted to include the "cure" plot as well. You cut out the cure plot and have the story play out over the course of a few films and not make them 90 minutes like X3 was and you have a much better adaptation.

As for the films never being able to capture the feeling of the X-men. That all depends on the writing and the imagination/vision of the director. With the first few X-men films Fox and Singer held back on the true potential of these characters. Due to that, Vaughn and Ratner(Vaughn played a fairly big part in X3's story before he jumped ship, it wasn't all Ratner's fault.)had to keep in line with that when they made X3 so it didn't feel drastically different than the previous two films. Down the road when they have an all new creative team doing new films with a new cast, it's not impossible for them to make those new films more accurate to the comics.

 

[Lord]

A complete reboot in films should probably take the Ultimate X-Men route, but probably not give so much freedom to the centinels, a reboot as a TV show should go with the original 5 and expand from there, though i think the first 3 seasons should be limited to the pre-uncanny years, before the likes of Wolverine came along.

I would actually like to see the 2nd option, with a film series and an alternate universe in the tv show as a way to tell the x-men history in a different way.

 

[The Overlord]

What powers are these? Most of Apocalypse's powers: super strength, size changing, regeneration, telepathy, telekinesis, technopathy and being a big blue skinned armoerd guy have been done on TV well and cheaply for decades. Why would it all of a sudden eat up a budget?

If Apocalypse were a CGI character, or non-emotive, the BSG comparison would make sense. If he were anything more than a bumpy forehead alien, the Star Trek comparison would make sense.

The size changing seems pretty expensive, plus he can turn his hands into various weapons right? That sounds expensive.

Why would spending 100 million over 10 episodes mean spending 100 million on a couple episodes? What is your vision for the X-Men? I think you're imagining something a little flashier than the books actually come across. Just because someone can blow up the world, doesn't mean that you have to show it over and over and eat up your budget. When you deal with the high powered characters, they're not on screen maxing out their powers constantly.

Except a lot of the characters have powers that could easily eat up a budget. Cyclops's eye beams, those are pretty expensive, Ice Man can't ice up, that would too expensive. Part of the reason why Cyclops got a reduced role in X-2, is because his powers were expensive.

Gladiator has super strength and super speed. These powers are extremely cheap to make happen on television. You have him fly in (your big SFX shot) you have him wreck shop with super strength and speed (minor FX, some stunts and prop work) and you have a big epic fight for less than the cost of Blackwater.

You are still putting against a lot of characters with powers that would eat up a budget in no time. Not mention Phoenix's powers, not the telepathy, but the fiery bird effect, would be really expensive, would more expensive then Blackwater. Phoenix destroying a star system, pretty expensive. A character with god like powers is going to be expensive.

I don't think you are being realistic in terms of what you can do on a budget,

Duplicating the comic book panels would be expensive, but doing the story, and all the emotion that goes with it is absolutely doable on a TV budget. It would not be easy, but it's far easier than doing the story justice in film, where you can have Gladiator fly around, but you can't tell half the story of Jean's journey because you only have two hours and the movie has to cater to 3-4 other characters.

Same concept goes for Phoenix and Apocalypse.

Unless Phoenix never really uses her powers in the show, you can't tell the Phoenix Saga on a TV budget. I think it would end up looking terrible if they tried it and who knows how many bottle episodes they would have to make to recoup their budget.

The level of special effects to tell the story of the X-Men well on TV, simply do not exist. Can you name a TV show as special effect laden as the one you are proposing?

There are some super heroes that can work on a TV budget, the X-Men are not in that group.