The Dark Knight I Believe In Harvey Dent !! - Official Discussion Thread

[cinematheque]

^lol.

ZOMG!

he can use Cancer Boy again!

Indeed, but even though he comes with good recommendations (f***ing non-profits!), it might be better for his campaign purposes to use someone more hopeless. You know, a kid with a goldfish in a plastic bag or something.

 

[ultimatefan]

Well, this is all clearly setting up Harvey being elected attorney, and looks all too convenient, I mean, how he convinced the hostage taker to confess he was part of the smear campaign...

 

[dilly]

Ah it was just a newb that got excited when just finding the audio feed. No harm no foul though. Let's stop posting on here now though and let it die unless something on the CTA site DOES update (which it wont)

dont appreciate being called "just some newb"....yes i may have commented about the harvey dent audio file on the wrong forum but as this is the main viral campaign forum that people seem to be talking on i just decided to put on here. no harm.i'll just comment on the correct forum next time, sorry for this mix up........anyway......any news.

 

[zenbird]

Well, this is all clearly setting up Harvey being elected attorney, and looks all too convenient, I mean, how he convinced the hostage taker to confess he was part of the smear campaign...

Right...we all need to remember: Harvey is not an angel.

 

[framo]

Well, this is all clearly setting up Harvey being elected attorney, and looks all too convenient, I mean, how he convinced the hostage taker to confess he was part of the smear campaign...

But Dent also can provide protection, he is a REALLY good lawyer. We all know the truth about Dent but I think the viral is supposed to make us fight not only for the Joker (who is flippin' awesome) but for Dent because he truly is a good person.

They needed a turning point in the ARG after so much Dent-smashing. Plus, Notaro was really on the edge and Dent promising to get him what he wants, Dent who obviously isn't corrupt... that would comfort Notaro.

I don't know... IBIHD

 

[sowasred2012]

Rachel Dawes backing Harvey Dent sells it for me - she's got a spider-sense (yeah, I went there) for shifty types, and I doubt she would've gone on to publicly praise him if that was going off.

 

[zenbird]

Dent who obviously isn't corrupt...

Wouldn't it be funny if THAT were misleading?



Seriously, though, I don't know which Dent I like better, story-wise. Is he the corrupt DA with the false face of an angel, or the seriously altruistic good guy, who is horribly scarred and let down by the system?

Is he big and bad before, or after...?

 

[LostGuy]

Wouldn't it be funny if THAT were misleading?



Seriously, though, I don't know which Dent I like better, story-wise. Is he the corrupt DA with the false face of an angel, or the seriously altruistic good guy, who is horribly scarred and let down by the system?

Is he big and bad before, or after...?

I'd love to see some ambiguity in the character. Like small actions or show that Dent is someone who can get angry easily or serious thoughts like "wouldn't it be great if that guy just died?". Something to show us that he is trying to do the best to be a good guy and follow the rules, but that he also flerts with the dark side. That would make more plausible his transfomration into Two-Face, whose cruelty would be unleashed after the acid incident.

 

[HUM469]

Wouldn't it be funny if THAT were misleading?



Seriously, though, I don't know which Dent I like better, story-wise. Is he the corrupt DA with the false face of an angel, or the seriously altruistic good guy, who is horribly scarred and let down by the system?

Is he big and bad before, or after...?

Somehow I always got the impression that he started out good, but despite all his work, he got screwed in the end and his mind snapped. Here he was respected, looked up to, and then once he was disfigured, he saw that little of his work actually made a difference (in his opinion). Couple that with the fact that he started following his "false idol" of a coin, and he's converted entirely to evil by the hopelessnes of it all.

Of course that's just my feeling on the whole thing, though I think the viral is giving a lot of boost to that view. After all, we see the people love him. Then we see there are a lot of bad men out there who will do anything to oppose him and the people drop him very easily. Then he's a hero again. This is just the start of his carreer really, and already he's on the roller coaster from hell. Stress like that could make anyone snap eventually. Once he looks like a freak, there will be no hope to keep the public on his side. I just wonder if we will get to his scarring in this movie, or if they are already setting up a third in the series with this whole back-story.

 

[zenbird]

Also, I seem to recall, either in the comics or in the first animated series that Dent was protrayed as being quite vain - "Apollo", his nickname was, and he took it to heart.

Am I remembering that right?

Sooooo much histiory, all lumping together in my brains.

 

[strikerbatman]

Harvey Dent is a good guy in the beginning, He fights for gotham, through his own inner turmoil and the acid bit he gets pushed over the edge and it creates a split personality. He is always half good. The two-face personna is the evil part.
So;
Harvey Dent= Good(Very passionate)
Two-Face= bad(warped pessimistic sense of right and wrong)

 

[Anita18]

I'd love to see some ambiguity in the character. Like small actions or show that Dent is someone who can get angry easily or serious thoughts like "wouldn't it be great if that guy just died?". Something to show us that he is trying to do the best to be a good guy and follow the rules, but that he also flerts with the dark side. That would make more plausible his transfomration into Two-Face, whose cruelty would be unleashed after the acid incident.

I loved the way he was portrayed in TLH, where he obviously wants to do the right thing, but he definitely also has a dark side when it comes to the bad guys. "Two shots to the head. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy." And then Gordon goes, "You don't really mean that."

And then in trying to do the right thing, the system itself makes him snap.

 

[cinematheque]

Somehow I always got the impression that he started out good, but despite all his work, he got screwed in the end and his mind snapped. Here he was respected, looked up to, and then once he was disfigured, he saw that little of his work actually made a difference (in his opinion). Couple that with the fact that he started following his "false idol" of a coin, and he's converted entirely to evil by the hopelessnes of it all.

Of course that's just my feeling on the whole thing, though I think the viral is giving a lot of boost to that view. After all, we see the people love him. Then we see there are a lot of bad men out there who will do anything to oppose him and the people drop him very easily. Then he's a hero again. This is just the start of his carreer really, and already he's on the roller coaster from hell. Stress like that could make anyone snap eventually. Once he looks like a freak, there will be no hope to keep the public on his side. I just wonder if we will get to his scarring in this movie, or if they are already setting up a third in the series with this whole back-story.

I really think the viral is setting up a far more consequential transformation like the one you said you hoped for. The point with the Nolanized franchise, and with the game for sure, is that it's bent on creating a new kind of realism within the franchise. For one, it's always been pretty explicit that nobody in this franchise becomes the way they are because of being dropped in a vat of chemicals/being crushed under a vat of chemicals/being splashed with a vat of chemicals. I suspect the transformation from Dent to Two-Face will have very little to do with the scarring itself, although I don't think the idea that "he tried so hard but then people splashed him with acid and it made him realize how useless he really felt and so he went crazy" is enough to propel him into that territory, either, at least in the Nolan Gotham. I can't think that it's coincidence that there are two already-villains in TDK AND Harvey Dent. I very much suspect that their interference will have something to do with it.

Although, uh, this is just me saying this is what I'd guess based on Nolan's past behaviors with Batman. I read from a pretty reliable source whether or not Dent's going to actually transform into Two-Face, which I kind of wish I hadn't but it was the headline and it popped up in Gmail or on IMDb or something. But if you really want to know and not speculate, you can PM me and I'll tell you.

 

[LostGuy]

I loved the way he was portrayed in TLH, where he obviously wants to do the right thing, but he definitely also has a dark side when it comes to the bad guys. "Two shots to the head. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy." And then Gordon goes, "You don't really mean that."

And then in trying to do the right thing, the system itself makes him snap.

Exactly. It seems so much more plausible to me that this duality was in him before the acid. And I guess it would make sense in the realistic universe Nolan is creating. That "Harvey=good/Dent=bad" definition lacks shades of gray, IMHO. He should have both within him always, only the Dent side was much more dominant before the incident with the acid and the system itself betraying him.

But, anyway, just an opinion.

 

[HUM469]

I really think the viral is setting up a far more consequential transformation like the one you said you hoped for. The point with the Nolanized franchise, and with the game for sure, is that it's bent on creating a new kind of realism within the franchise. For one, it's always been pretty explicit that nobody in this franchise becomes the way they are because of being dropped in a vat of chemicals/being crushed under a vat of chemicals/being splashed with a vat of chemicals. I suspect the transformation from Dent to Two-Face will have very little to do with the scarring itself, although I don't think the idea that "he tried so hard but then people splashed him with acid and it made him realize how useless he really felt and so he went crazy" is enough to propel him into that territory, either, at least in the Nolan Gotham. I can't think that it's coincidence that there are two already-villains in TDK AND Harvey Dent. I very much suspect that their interference will have something to do with it.

Although, uh, this is just me saying this is what I'd guess based on Nolan's past behaviors with Batman. I read from a pretty reliable source whether or not Dent's going to actually transform into Two-Face, which I kind of wish I hadn't but it was the headline and it popped up in Gmail or on IMDb or something. But if you really want to know and not speculate, you can PM me and I'll tell you.

Oh I am not saying that the acid incident is the catalyst for the transformation. I am saying that we are already seeing the pressures build that are the catalyst for change. Already, Dent has had huge swings in public opinion. Already he's had what should be breakthroughs in routing out corrupt cops, but each time it has also lead to a new explosion of violence, death and betrayal. It is my opinion that as you say, they are adding every newer layers of realism. This is only the begining for Dent, and already we see huge opportunities for any real person to feel pride, shame, anger, guilt and thanks in short spans of time. That kind of stress will break someone, with each "success" also being a mortal failure somewhere else.

As for what will happen, thank you for your offer. I might be totally wrong on my beliefs, but I am quite content to go along guessing for myself. Spoilers have never been something that are good for me because I tend to get very bored easily. So long as a difinitive answer is not availible, I am happy to go on reading, researching, and working for an answer. With an easy answer handed over, that's it, I am done!

 

[DARKxGOTHAMITE]

I loved the way he was portrayed in TLH, where he obviously wants to do the right thing, but he definitely also has a dark side when it comes to the bad guys. "Two shots to the head. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy." And then Gordon goes, "You don't really mean that."

And then in trying to do the right thing, the system itself makes him snap.

 

[escobar2248]

I loved the way he was portrayed in TLH, where he obviously wants to do the right thing, but he definitely also has a dark side when it comes to the bad guys. "Two shots to the head. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy." And then Gordon goes, "You don't really mean that."

And then in trying to do the right thing, the system itself makes him snap.

I just hope that they don't take Harvey's past with his father out of this story. I thought that it's a small but critical element to Harvey's dissension into Two-Face.

 

[Anita18]

Exactly. It seems so much more plausible to me that this duality was in him before the acid. And I guess it would make sense in the realistic universe Nolan is creating. That "Harvey=good/Dent=bad" definition lacks shades of gray, IMHO. He should have both within him always, only the Dent side was much more dominant before the incident with the acid and the system itself betraying him.

But, anyway, just an opinion.

Right, but I don't think they should make him into a psychopath pre-scarring. He should always want to do the right thing, but then his view of the "right thing" is what changes.

 

[Gallagher]

^lol.

ZOMG!

he can use Cancer Boy again!

'Cancer-kid' looks a hell of a lot like Billy Corgan.

 

[LostGuy]

Right, but I don't think they should make him into a psychopath pre-scarring. He should always want to do the right thing, but then his view of the "right thing" is what changes.

Oh, don't get me wrong here. I also don't think he should, say, kill people or even bribe anyone, but I'd like to see him getting mad, overreacting sometimes, at the way things are and the impossibility of dealing with them the right way, no matter what he does. Someone flerting with the idea that maybe the right way doesn't work. Not the good samaritan who becomes a villain just because he got some acid on his face. That's too simple for such a great character.

 

[Anita18]

Oh, don't get me wrong here. I also don't think he should, say, kill people or even bribe anyone, but I'd like to see him getting mad, overreacting sometimes, at the way things are and the impossibility of dealing with them the right way, no matter what he does. Someone flerting with the idea that maybe the right way doesn't work. Not the good samaritan who becomes a villain just because he got some acid on his face. That's too simple for such a great character.

We have indeed come to an agreement.

 

[DanTheDevil]

Oh, don't get me wrong here. I also don't think he should, say, kill people or even bribe anyone, but I'd like to see him getting mad, overreacting sometimes, at the way things are and the impossibility of dealing with them the right way, no matter what he does. Someone flerting with the idea that maybe the right way doesn't work. Not the good samaritan who becomes a villain just because he got some acid on his face. That's too simple for such a great character.

Do you really think Nolan would create such a two-dimensional character????

 

[Zumi]

The way I always saw it was that Dent had both sides in him all along though as long as it seemed possible for things to go well, aka him being a good DA and working hard, then the Dent side was in control though after the acid it sort of hit him how futile his good tactic was and that's when the major chance occured.

AKA, at this time I don't think there's any reason to question Dent and his motives. I doubt he's corrupt.

 

[LostGuy]

Do you really think Nolan would create such a two-dimensional character????

Not at all! Actually, it was just a 'relief comment', if I can put it that way. t:

 

[QueenChaos]

'Cancer-kid' looks a hell of a lot like Billy Corgan.

I was thinking that myself! Glad i'm not the only one hahah