If you Don't like the movie - POST HERE

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

A psychic battle where she clearly tortured him a bit. Psychic battles involve one person levitating the other for no reason? She turned the tide in that battle long before she actually killed him. She was prolonging it.

Think about it. Dark Phoenix lifted Xavier out of his chair. Held him in midair. Immobilizing him. Essentially controlling HIS body with HER mind, despite his best efforts. And she then began to make small pieces of him come off. She was torturing him, and toying with him.

I think the point sceptics are trying to make is...

"And she couldn't just LIFT and IMMOBILIZE Logan because...?"

I mean, why would Logan's "torture" be so... well... non-threatening? Mere moments after she just turned people into ash/dust/whatever???

There just was no reason to let anyone come that close. *shrugs*

 

[Mike059jig]

You dont think Xavier was holding her off at all?

That toying thing is getting a bit out of hand here...LOL t: .....I look at the serious gaze between Xavier and Phoenix in that scene and I think they are doing a staring contest.....I thought I seen phoenix wink at Professor X before she killed him.....t:

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Believe me, there are more LOTR fanatics who love the trilogy and appreciate what Jackson did. As far as I can tell there isn't a division between that particular fanbase and this particular fanbase.

Now those who are "LOTR fanatics" need to understand and realize that not everything could be included in the films. Most fans want a 100% pure adaptation of the material, had that happened, the films would've been 5 to 6 hours long and plus it wouldn't have worked.

Granted, I wasn't fond of the whole Arwen angle. I don't know if your mom knows this or not, the aspect of the "Scouring of the Shire" was in the first film and referenced quite vividly when Frodo first encounters the land of the Elves. Jackson didn't include it because he didn't like that part of the book and figured it would be best to leave it alone.

Yes, it is in need of a reboot. Does it need to happen next year? No. Does it need to happen the year after? No. But it is going to happen and it's going to happen within the next 5-6 years or maybe a direct sequel will be made. There are more stories to tell and all this "Leave the franchise alone" is hogwash really. You have the Mutant Massacre, Days of Future Past, Age of Apocalypse, and of course introducing the Sentinels can be brought to life as a story too.

Plus it's time for a new villain. We need a villain who just doesn't give a **** about anyone or anything, and that villain is Apocalypse. It would be overkill if they decided to go up to 7 or 8(Like they're doing with Saw). As much as I love the Saw series, it should've ended at the third film. With X-Men there are more stories to tell, more characters to introduce, and a chance to correct the mistakes of X3.

While I agree with you that there are more comic stories that cold be told, and translated well into film, that doesn't equate to me with a NEED to tell them.

The movies have to end at some time, because as you said, doing 7 or 8 would just be overkill. While there was no inherent reason to make this a mere trilogy, that's how it was handled. And even if you do make a couple more movies, and tell a couple more stories, there will always be comic stories left out. You'll never be able to adapt all of the X-Men stories to movies, and which ones do you choose? Sure, you COULD say the classics, like Mutant Massacre, Days of Future Past, etc... but the movies to this point have already not gone in that direction.

X-Men didn't cover any X-Men comic stories at all, at least none that are in my comic collection. X2 covered vaguely Wolverine's origins, and God Loves, Man Kills, which I would argue isn't a TRADEMARK X-Men tale. X-Men: The Last Stand covered the most trademark of them all, in the Phoenix Saga, and Joss Whedon's "Gifted" run, which again, isn't the most trademark X-Men tale. So of 5 different plotlines over 3 movies, we've only really had 2 trademark tales, and the quality of one of them (Phoenix Saga) is definatley debateable. So we've had 1 well handled trademark tale in 3 movies and 5 different plot arcs.

The movies, to this point, haven't had a habit of telling the most trademark of X-Men tales. So how exactly do you choose which stories to tell?

And quite frankly, the films have to end somewhere, at some point.

In my opinion, existing comic book tales not withstanding, what better place to end the movie franchise, than at the point in which all of the ongoing plot arcs covered in that franchise have been concluded?

Also, mistakes or not, I don't want a future film to just to undo what happened in a previous film. Once that happens, the movie franchise has lost any credibility it has had, and I care about the X-Men and the movies too much to let them go down that path.

 

[Theweepeople]

Sorry to change the subject but, did anyone besides me think the short action sequence in the Fantastic Four 2 trailer between Silver Surfer and the Human Torch was better than all action sequences in X3? What really annoys me about all this is now Fox appears to actually care more about the quality of their comic book movies. It's a shame that they didn't give the X-Men series the same care Fantastic Four is getting right now. Who could have predicted 2 years ago that the FF series had the possibility of turning out better than the X-Men one?

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I wasn't really all that impressed with the Fantastic 4 2 trailer... I mean, I was, but not to the extent you mention.

I don't think that franchise will ever come anywhere close to X-Men. Though I did enjoy Fantastic 4 and anticipate I'll enjoy #2.

 

[WorthyStevens]

I wasn't really all that impressed with the Fantastic 4 2 trailer... I mean, I was, but not to the extent you mention.

I have to agree Nell. I first heard how awesome everyone said the trailer was, but after I watched it, the trailer didn't blow me away. Sure it was awesome seeing SS flying about, but it just didn't speak to me that well.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

Sorry to change the subject but, did anyone besides me think the short action sequence in the Fantastic Four 2 trailer between Silver Surfer and the Human Torch was better than all action sequences in X3? What really annoys me about all this is now Fox appears to actually care more about the quality of their comic book movies. It's a shame that they didn't give the X-Men series the same care Fantastic Four is getting right now. Who could have predicted 2 years ago that the FF series had the possibility of turning out better than the X-Men one?

I don't know, I still haven't seen the FF2 trailer. I did enjoy the first one and hope the second one has a more vicious and genius like Doom, awesome Silver Surfer visuals, Doombots, and of course more deeper character development. I admit that as a kid I was never a big fan of the FF4 comics or the animated shows.

Individually and visually I was more into Human Torch, The Thing, and Dr. Doom as a kid.

If Fox doesn't screw up the FF4 it has the potential to be something great.

 

[Mike059jig]

I wasn't really all that impressed with the Fantastic 4 2 trailer... I mean, I was, but not to the extent you mention.

I don't think that franchise will ever come anywhere close to X-Men. Though I did enjoy Fantastic 4 and anticipate I'll enjoy #2.

I agree the trailer was meh, just an extended action sequence;that trailer actuallly need dialogue to tell a story or something other than just flying....I don't know how many times I watched spider-man 3, trailer, and Harry potter's

 

[kg576094]

The more I think abt the scene of the Phoenix with Wolverine the more it doesn't make any donkey sense to me.
Now imagine waking up in the exact spot where she had been treated, experimented & operated as a child by Xavier (she's probably lying on the very same operating table with all that silly attachments to her head).
With refences to the previous movie, Xavier was to the Dark Phoenix what William Stryker was to Wolverine, and the X-mansion was what Alkali Lake was to Wolverine.
Therefore, it was reasonable to expect given the location that like Wolverine, she would remember all the old memories of how she had been manipulated into her current state, so I don't understand why she didn't lose control in that scene and blew up the whole place (add to tat she was being provoked and confronted by Wolverine who questioned her identity & sanity all she did was blew up a door and went back home?)
This is way too out of logic and believability for anyone to accept such horrible directing.
So why did she lose control of herself in Alkali Lake the place where she was freed at last and when she should be filled with jubilation and proclaimed to the world that the Dark Phoenix's back at last but why did she kill Cyclops and end up nearly half-dead by the lakeside only to be picked up & shipped back to the school in such a sorry state?

Sorry Nell, individual characters had to show consistency in their beliefs, voice, and reactions in order to establish their motivation & characterisation which positively contribute to their character development.
Especially for such a short movie we cannot have characters doing one thing in one scene and be a complete contradiction or mockery of themselves in the very next scene that do not make any sense without proper explanations.
(1) Young Angel cutting his wing and in his very next scene accepting his mutancy without any reasons given?
(2) Storm strongly & violently opposed to anyone taking the cure but in a couple scene later seen defending the cure and not blinking an eye when Beast and Wolverine used the cure agt Magneto without any reasons given?
(3) Beast supposedly rejecting the cure because it had been weaponized but in a couple scene later used the cure as a weapon agt Magneto without blinking an eye?
(4) Storm reading the eulogy abt preserving Xavier's vision and in the very next scene discussed abt closing the school?
(5) Multiple Man out of prison in one scene and back right in willingly in his very next scene ?
(6) (deleted scene) Mystique abandoned subsequently betraying Magneto's hideout but in the final scene seen playing chess with Magneto without any explanation?
X3 is loaded with such contradictions and that I believe the fault lies squarely with the director rather than the writers. I cannot believe any hollywood screenwriters can make such mistakes in characterisation apart Ratner's directorial style & his very short attention span!

read this:
Ratner's style in feature filmmaking resembles his quick-cuts experiences with music videos. "I have a very short attention span," he admits. "I have to entertain myself. I can't worry about what the audience might like. I have a specific point of view.

 

[Theweepeople]

I have to agree Nell. I first heard how awesome everyone said the trailer was, but after I watched it, the trailer didn't blow me away. Sure it was awesome seeing SS flying about, but it just didn't speak to me that well.

I didn't say the trailer looked awesome. I just said the action of that scene impressived me more than all of the scenes in X3. Considering how unimpressed I was with the original FF this trailer surprised me. Overall, I believe FF2 could turn out to be a decent movie that would help take away the bad memories of X3.

 

[Theweepeople]

(5) Multiple Man out of prison in one scene and back right in willingly in his very next scene ?

I remember almost laughing at that scene while watching X3 in the theater. What bothered me about Multiple Man's decision to sacrifice himself is he witnessed how Magneto treated Mystique after she got cured? Multiple Man put himself in a position where he would be captured and could be cured in captivitity. Therefore, what future was Multiple Man sacrificing his freedom and mutant powers for? Certaintly not the one Magneto visioned because in that future a cured Multiple Man would be hunted down and killed in a heartbeat by renegade mutants.

(6) (deleted scene) Mystique abandoned subsequently betraying Magneto's hideout but in the final scene seen playing chess with Magneto without any explanation?

Ratner actually wasted valuable time filming that when he could have spent time on crucial scenes that would have made the film less confusing?!!! Well, I guess it's not so surprising. The extended deleted fight scene at Jean's house had Wolverine stab Juggernaut through the arm and for some unexplained reason logan's claws get stuck. I can't believe Brett didn't realize how idiotic that would look until after he wasted time filming that scene. Then the scene that was used for the theatrical release was shorter but, just as stupid since we see Wolverine run at an enemy without his claws protruded for the first time ever in the X-Men series.

read this:

Ratner's style in feature filmmaking resembles his quick-cuts experiences with music videos. "I have a very short attention span," he admits. "I have to entertain myself. I can't worry about what the audience might like. I have a specific point of view.

So Ratner does not care about the quality of the product he is selling to his customers? Directors with this mentality should stick to making B movies.

 

[Theweepeople]

I checked the running time of Night at the Museum and was shocked to discover that it is 4 minutes longer than X-Men:The Last Stand. Could someone explain to me why Fox thought a silly simplistic fantasy story about a gaurd in a Museum needed a longer running time than the final film of a triology that featured two classic comicbook storylines that are very complex?

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Ratner never filmed the scene of Mystique playing chess with Magneto. She was originally going to be in the scene, but Rebecca wasn't available, hence, it's just Magneto. Would have been a pretty dumb ending to go that route, I agree.

1) Young Angel cutting his wing and in his very next scene accepting his mutancy without any reasons given?

-I agree, Angel's arc in the movie was handled very poorly. I believe he had an amazing set up (opening flashback, and sequence at Worthington Labs), but it had absolutley no payoff, or any semblance of explanation behind his motives. This is one area where I will concede bad writing.

(2) Storm strongly & violently opposed to anyone taking the cure but in a couple scene later seen defending the cure and not blinking an eye when Beast and Wolverine used the cure agt Magneto without any reasons given?

-I think it's more of a "are you ready to do what you need to do when the time comes" moment. For the good of the whole, Magneto had to be stopped by any means neccesary, and that meant curing him. I don't have a problem with this.

I would have liked, however, some more time devoted to explaining Storm's stance on the cure, as well as other mutants. It was "We're not a disease", and then nothing more was given to that thought.

(3) Beast supposedly rejecting the cure because it had been weaponized but in a couple scene later used the cure as a weapon agt Magneto without blinking an eye?

-See same response to #2.

(4) Storm reading the eulogy abt preserving Xavier's vision and in the very next scene discussed abt closing the school?

-I again feel this was a bad scene. This scene, as well as Wolverine packing up to go off and find Jean, and his interaction with Storm, were the 2 worst scenes of the film. I think these scenes epitomize the bad writing of this film, and it is in these scenes that the movie manages to get everything wrong. Beast wants to close the school, but is happy when Storm steps up to take over. Beast wants to honor the memory of his mentor, and father to many, Charles Xavier, by closing down his school in the first place. I concede this scene to you as "bad writing".

(5) Multiple Man out of prison in one scene and back right in willingly in his very next scene ?

-I think Multiple Man's recruitment into the Brotherhood in general was pretty poor.

"I could use a man of your talents." "I'm in."

WTF?!

That was just pretty bad.

(6) (deleted scene) Mystique abandoned subsequently betraying Magneto's hideout but in the final scene seen playing chess with Magneto without any explanation?

-That scene was never filmed, but I agree, it was a bad idea.

X3 is loaded with such contradictions and that I believe the fault lies squarely with the director rather than the writers. I cannot believe any hollywood screenwriters can make such mistakes in characterisation apart Ratner's directorial style & his very short attention span!

I agree that there were many mistakes in this film. I don't believe it's as contradictory as you claim it to be. I feel that the movie worked more than it didn't. That doesn't mean there aren't parts where it didn't work for me, however.

Your point about Xavier being Jean's "Stryker" and the mansion being her "Alkali Lake" and why she didn't flip out; Xavier explicitly states in a scene prior that it is "unclear how much Jean knew", which explains that she didn't know what was going on.

Jean knew that Xavier was helping her to develop her powers, as stated in X-Men... but during those sessions is when he could have put in the blocks, and she'd never know. It's explained that she doesn't know what's going on, so it'd be hard for her to "flip out"

 

[LadyVader]

Ben Stiller is more powerful than Phoenix, and as such needs more screen time.

 

[X-Maniac]

The more I think abt the scene of the Phoenix with Wolverine the more it doesn't make any donkey sense to me.
Now imagine waking up in the exact spot where she had been treated, experimented & operated as a child by Xavier (she's probably lying on the very same operating table with all that silly attachments to her head).
With refences to the previous movie, Xavier was to the Dark Phoenix what William Stryker was to Wolverine, and the X-mansion was what Alkali Lake was to Wolverine.
Therefore, it was reasonable to expect given the location that like Wolverine, she would remember all the old memories of how she had been manipulated into her current state, so I don't understand why she didn't lose control in that scene and blew up the whole place (add to tat she was being provoked and confronted by Wolverine who questioned her identity & sanity all she did was blew up a door and went back home?)
This is way too out of logic and believability for anyone to accept such horrible directing.
So why did she lose control of herself in Alkali Lake the place where she was freed at last and when she should be filled with jubilation and proclaimed to the world that the Dark Phoenix's back at last but why did she kill Cyclops and end up nearly half-dead by the lakeside only to be picked up & shipped back to the school in such a sorry state?

Sorry Nell, individual characters had to show consistency in their beliefs, voice, and reactions in order to establish their motivation & characterisation which positively contribute to their character development.
Especially for such a short movie we cannot have characters doing one thing in one scene and be a complete contradiction or mockery of themselves in the very next scene that do not make any sense without proper explanations.
(1) Young Angel cutting his wing and in his very next scene accepting his mutancy without any reasons given?
(2) Storm strongly & violently opposed to anyone taking the cure but in a couple scene later seen defending the cure and not blinking an eye when Beast and Wolverine used the cure agt Magneto without any reasons given?
(3) Beast supposedly rejecting the cure because it had been weaponized but in a couple scene later used the cure as a weapon agt Magneto without blinking an eye?
(4) Storm reading the eulogy abt preserving Xavier's vision and in the very next scene discussed abt closing the school?
(5) Multiple Man out of prison in one scene and back right in willingly in his very next scene ?
(6) (deleted scene) Mystique abandoned subsequently betraying Magneto's hideout but in the final scene seen playing chess with Magneto without any explanation?
X3 is loaded with such contradictions and that I believe the fault lies squarely with the director rather than the writers. I cannot believe any hollywood screenwriters can make such mistakes in characterisation apart Ratner's directorial style & his very short attention span!

read this:
Ratner's style in feature filmmaking resembles his quick-cuts experiences with music videos. "I have a very short attention span," he admits. "I have to entertain myself. I can't worry about what the audience might like. I have a specific point of view.

You are being overly literal about everything, as is TheWeePeople. I fear his career as a chemist makes him see everything as a simple formula or equation whose result can always be predicted. Life isn’t like that. A human being is not a chemical that will only react in a certain way when added to another chemical. You appear to be caught in the same problem.

Changes in behaviour are part of life. People are frequently forced to do things they would not normally do. In the movieverse, it’s an indication of character growth and a way of providing plot twists.

And character change and growth is part of the X-Men’s stories. Charles and Magneto once worked together, then Magneto grew bitter and anti-human, then in X2 he works with the X-men despite being against them in X1 because it serves his goal. Wolverine was once a killing machine but is now a good guy, Storm was once revered and worshipped as a proud goddess and now chooses to protect a people who fear and hate her.

In X3, the X-Men have to find some way to stop Magneto who is a fairly unstoppable force. As he flings burning cars with no regard for the X-Men’s lives, the X-men must do something to stop him.

Beast’s disgust at having to use the cure as a weapon is shown to us in the way he stares at the cure cartridges and flings them aside with contempt.

Angel’s childhood reaction is shame, fear of his father’s reaction - it can be seen in the way he tries to hide his wings and the knives when his father bursts into the bathroom. If he were just upset at having wings growing, he wouldn’t be as secretive or act as guilty; later he learns to stand up to his father and make his own choice.

Storm’s funeral does not directly mention keeping open the school - she says his dream will live on ‘wherever we go’ - that is to say, his dream will live on in his teachings to the students, not necessarily the place. The arrival of a new student was the trigger factor that the school itself was needed.

Multiple Man’s swaggering, cocky, blase, ‘nothing to lose’ attitude is obvious.

I think the movie needs additional dialogue in places to perhaps make such character scenes more obvious. Somewhere - in the writing, directing or editing - the flow became less smooth.

 

[xmenfilesfan05]

Ha ha, agreed.

 

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

I checked the running time of Night at the Museum and was shocked to discover that it is 4 minutes longer than X-Men:The Last Stand. Could someone explain to me why Fox thought a silly simplistic fantasy story about a gaurd in a Museum needed a longer running time than the final film of a triology that featured two classic comicbook storylines that are very complex?

They thought brevity is epic/roxxor???

Or just out of their f****n minds, really. Your pick.

 

[Rac]

Are you serious?

Haha, I wonder what would have given you that impression.

Your nick is kinda blackish...

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Your nick is kinda blackish...

Haha.

Well, I do listen to rap music...

 

[LadyVader]

That hippity-hop music.

 

[gambitfire]

Are you serious?

Haha, I wonder what would have given you that impression.

Gee, I don't know, Nell-2- Thai- Izzay!!!

I mean i really don't have much else to go on. So i just assumed.

I agree the trailer was meh, just an extended action sequence;that trailer actuallly need dialogue to tell a story or something other than just flying....I don't know how many times I watched spider-man 3, trailer, and Harry potter's

Umm..how i do i put this clearly.... IT'S NOT A TRAILER IT'S A TEASER AS IN IT IS MEANt TO TEASE!!

and i for one personally loved it. Story wise it did what it need too without doing too much, and visually it was astounding.

 

[Leon the Professional]

Why didn't Storm fry Magneto with lightning? They weren't in a giant copper conductor this time.

Oh yeah, Cyclops isn't around to order some common sense into her.

Now, I could imagine why Storm firing lightning at Magneto may be unproductive, but before anyone starts explaining why, please remember that unless the explanation is somehow found within the context of the movie, then it is poor writing.


Speaking of poor writing, am I the only one who felt like retching when they look at the cure dart and Wolverine says "We work as a team" and Storm says "The best defense is a good offence"?

 

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Why didn't Storm fry Magneto with lightning? They weren't in a giant copper conductor this time.

Oh yeah, Cyclops isn't around to order some common sense into her.

That, and god forbid they'd make anyone but Wolvie look like a decent "leader"

Now, I could imagine why Storm firing lightning at Magneto may be unproductive, but before anyone starts explaining why, please remember that unless the explanation is somehow found within the context of the movie, then it is poor writing.

Movieverse never alluded at Mags' powers extending beyond manipulating metal, so, yeah, poor writing.

Speaking of poor writing, am I the only one who felt like retching when they look at the cure dart and Wolverine says "We work as a team" and Storm says "The best defense is a good offence"?

See first comment about every goody two shoe being Logan's b**ch.

And you know what, the funniest part is I don't even get how throwing Logan around had anything to do with stopping Beast from just leaping at Mags. Not even convinced the distraction was necessary, really...

 

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Then I suggest you re-read the novelisation.

Here, do let me help you. Open the book, turn to Page 316 and go four lines down: 'The adamantium was partly what saved him, because it possessed the tightest molecular bonding of any substance conceivable. Given time and will, she could deconstruct it the way she was shredding everything else, but right now her mind was focused on greater things."

I rest my case.

*takes bow*

A quick question since I don't have the book and don't intend to buy the thing...

WTF were those "greater things"???

All she does is stand around and get pissed during most of the flick. Are there references to the classic "I burn what doesn't work" line in the novel?

 

[X-Maniac]

Why didn't Storm fry Magneto with lightning? They weren't in a giant copper conductor this time.

Oh yeah, Cyclops isn't around to order some common sense into her.

Now, I could imagine why Storm firing lightning at Magneto may be unproductive, but before anyone starts explaining why, please remember that unless the explanation is somehow found within the context of the movie, then it is poor writing.

Within the movie it is never explained why Storm does not fry him with lightning. But the writers must have been aware from the comics and cartoons that Magneto absorbs or deflects Storm's lightning... electricity and magnetism are very closely related, hence they are placed together under the name of 'electromagnetism' because one phenomenon produces the other. Moving electricity creates a magnetic field, and a magnetic field creates an electric current.

I would however have liked to see Storm and Magneto, or Storm and Phoenix, battle it out. A battle of mutant elementals would have been visually thrilling. On the downside, movie Magneto does not appear to project energy blasts or create force fields.

EDIT: the novelisation says that the atmosphere on Alcatraz is somewhat damaged - Magneto's magnetic fields prevents Storm using her powers to create a storm (and bring down lightning) and Pyro's firestorm stops her bringing down precipitation.

Speaking of poor writing, am I the only one who felt like retching when they look at the cure dart and Wolverine says "We work as a team" and Storm says "The best defense is a good offence"?

Heh.. Well, at least that 'bookending' was there, to reflect back on the earlier Danger Room conversation. Even the look of Alcatraz is like the Danger Room's fire-blasted landscape. To some perhaps those lines are unsubtle and clunky (to me it was very comicbook/cartoon-like) but at least it is not random, it does have context, it does show that Storm and Wolverine seem to have learned something and that they can work together effectively.