And despite all of the dramatic happenings, this film had a far lighter tone, and in the midst of a story where a war is supposed to be taking place, that is not a good thing.
A lighter tone? Mystique and Magneto being cured, two deaths, an entire battle sequence where people are just dying all around, scenes where pretty much everyone is grieving or stressed out...this film, overall, had no lighter a tone overall than X-MEN and X2 did. There were some lighter lines, but they didn't serve to make the film itself any "brighter".
I mean, playing the voice of R. Lee Ermey during what is supposed to be a serious montage of soldiers getting reading for battle? Thats just downright silly.
It's only silly because of how you perceive R. Lee Ermey, methinks. I've seen/heard him when he's not silly, and the scene is played pretty straight, so I didn't find it that silly.
Politically X2 did offer some resolution, and in that respect X3 did a wonderful job of following up. We see plenty of politics and the political aspects, but my original question is about the HUMAN aspects. X3 had muties lining up to take the cure, and who were there biggest adversaries... other mutants?? Really??
Sure you aren't just assuming they were other mutants? Not all those signs were pro cure or pro mutant.
After what happened in X2, the Humans had NOTHING to say? Hell, after Osama bombed two towers and the pentagon, there were stories all the time about retaliation towards arab speaking peoples and mosques... you see what I'm talking about, the HUMAN response... where are the humans??
Who cares if we see how every single human being reacted to the events of X2? We see how the government reacted, and that's what's important to the story. We didn't really see how ANYONE reacted to the events of X-MEN beyond Stryker and the President's conversation and the bit between Cyclops and Jean.
Just like my comments to Xmaniac, you are misunderstanding the intended point of my comment. I get the POLITICAL responses in both movies. But X2 also introduced the HUMAN aspect. Stryker was clearly operating above and beyond the government. Bobby's parents were introduced to intentionally show you how HUMANS feel about the mutant phenomenon. And then to have the main protagonist's action effect the WHOLE world, it seems strange to me that the only human element in this conflict was the political aspects.
Warren Worthington Sr. was a human, was he not? His feelings on mutantcy were made pretty clear. Kavita Rao was also human. So was the President of the United States. We saw, or saw it hinted as to how they all felt about mutants.
Yes they needed to be addressed, and they would be the major part of the conflict, but what about the HUMANS?? Where are the HUMANS??? We had a chance to see them at the community meeting that broadcast was for Mutants only. We had a chance to see them at the clinic scenes that obviously would have a lot of mutants congregating. We had a chance to see their reactions on the various news broadcasts that were about the mutant state... WHERE was the fearful humans?
Who says they would be fearful about a cure? Indeed, most of them might well embrace it. We definitely saw them fearful when the mutants started striking back (the clinic fire, the bridge sequence). And we saw a fearful government using the cure as a weapon, did we not? I think we did.
I agreed with your original statement that the series started off about this conflict, but the ending didn't seem to really speak to it as effectively as one would think.
The real basic conflict in this franchise has been prejudice, and the lengths some will go to for their "cause", not neccessarily just human/mutant conflict. X3 certainly spoke to that.
Let's say for arguments sake that it would have been better if X2 had given more allusions to the worldwide disaster that resulted from Dark Cerebro, other than the president's slight reference.. ok.. But don't you agree that the weight of fully exploring that laid on the shoulders of the next movie?
Not really. X3 explored the RESULT of that incident, just as X2 explored the result of the Liberty Island incident.
No matter how many little references to it you made while X2 was winding down it's still something that could not have been fully explored and it's an important enough issue as to not be ignored. No matter who made that next movie, Singer or not, that issue should have been dealt with.
What issue?
I think the movie lacks some details, some IQ that X1 and X2 always had.
How so? You've got an entire cure storyline that produces obvious ethical and moral questions by itself. By itself. And the Phoenix storyline, being all about power and control and manipulation, does the same.
I prefer to judge the movies on their own merits and my preference is for building characters first, then surround them with action and dramatic events second. If you do the first correctly, the second is so much more effective. My verdict: X3 did not do the first well, therefore, the second felt like a bunch of candy. Tastes great, but lacks any nutritional value.
Here's the thing. Magneto...was already developed in X-MEN and X2. So was Xavier. So was Wolverine. So was Jean. So was Rogue. So was Storm, really. Ditto Mystique, Pyro, Bobby, etc. X3 did not need to "develop" these major players...it needed to develop them FURTHER. And it did. Beast got quite a bit of development. So did Storm. So did Wolverine. And Xavier clearly did. Angel didn't have a ton of development, per se, but he did have some, and he did have a backstory, and he didn't really need it much development beyond that and his basic drives for his part in this particular story.
And herein lies the problem: People seem to just sort of forget what X-MEN and X2 did with the characters, and then expect X3 to somehow encompass everything the characters were about in X-MEN and X2 while developing them still further, rather than simply building on what X-MEN and X2 introduced and developing them further, according to the story. I.E, if Wolverine has more emotion and is more open, he's a bad character, despite the fact that he was slowly becoming such a character through X-Men and X2.
Um Rogue stood up for herself in X2 she was starting to become the badass we wanted her too be.
Rogue was never becoming a badass in X2.
I couldn't disagree with you more. However little screen time Singer gave any major character atleast the dialogue had meaning.
And the dialogue in X3 doesn't have the same level of meaning? Almost every major interaction in X3 reveals something incredibly important about characters. Even Bobby's short interactions with Rogue tell you something about him as a person.
When Wolvie and Rogue were introduced to the School in X1 they were done so in a manner that gave us insight into the turmoil that created the characters. the same could be said when Nightcrawler was brought in and when Pyro was further explored prior to turning to the brotherhood. In X3 colossus moves his TV and tells Bobby Rogue is gone (some character development) oh and he throws Wolvie at things (which was great to see but Jeez once was enough).
So because one character didn't get much development...no one did? That's simply not what happened with X3.
Angel's introduction and escape scenes were fodder that was treated as the border to one of the comics pages as opposed to one of the panels that made up the book (hope that made sense).
No. It didn't make sense. Especially since Angel is given one of those storyarcs that you mentioned give us "insight into the turmoil that created them". But he's "fodder" because...
Talk about morons. I have a feeling that when Penn and Kinberg started writing there was none of this Bull Sh** last stand talk. Thats what makes it a horrible conclusion, the fact that it tried to set up more than resolve. It's way of resolving many character arcs was just to kill them or cure them.
Sigh...
One of the major points of the X-Men franchise and X-Men comics in general, and hey, real life, is "nothing gets resolved".
They still have the same problems, the same issues, etc.
Some of you are really, really missing the point of this franchise and this film.
Personally I think Ratner and crew were too preoccupied trying to "finish the trilogy Singer started" by basically taking all the characters in unnatural directions, all the development of the characters in X2 was basically scrapped. Besides maybe Wolverines, but he turned into something incredibly different than his comic/ past movie counterpart.
Not really. Go back and watch X-MEN and X2 again. And think hard about who Wolverine is in those films.
Sorry, but what are you talking about? With X3 they wiped the slate clean. They completely disregarded everything Singer had put so much effort into setting up.
Another idiotic statement. There's just no truth to this. None.
X3 does not belong in the trilogy because it does not build on the first two... they disregarded everything because they just though 'oh f**k it, we can get away with it and still make a pile of cash'.
ANOTHER idiotic statement! How can any of yiou honestly believe X3 does not build on the events of X-MEN and X2?
Even if you don't compare it to its predecessors, it's a heavily flawed film. Too quickly paced, so the characters aren't given enough time to breath. Action sequences are given precedence over character development. Overall, if you judge it as just a standalone film, it's really nothing more than an action film.
What the hell does that mean? Characters aren't given time to breathe"? Give me a break.
Scenes weren't given room to breathe.
Again, what the hell does that mean? Is this one of those "stupid people can't follow a scene or get a scene in less than three minutes" things?
The resurrection scene was very abrupt.
Not really. It's one of the longer scenes in the movie. What should it have been? Five minutes of...what, exactly? It was the length it needed to be.
Angel was horribly used,especially the scene where he walks into the mansion during that god awful scene.
Horribly used? You think it's horrible that someone who has been shown to have a reason to take the cure and assimilate rejects it and embraces who he is? You think it's horrible they show him seeking refuge at Xavier's school? And then that he goes back to save his father when he learns of Magneto's army?
Too many stories were being told in a short matter of time.
Go watch X2 again. Seriously. Do it.
Corny moments,Angel saving his father at Alcatraz,the whole "I heard this was a safe place for mutants" scene with Storm and Angel.
So it's a little corny. A lot of aspects of the X-Men are. Doesn't mean that's all they are. So what's your point? It's not ONLY corny.
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