If you're a WB/DC movie exec, what are your plans until 2015?
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RickO'Connell
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I love Superman but I think the main problem is with him his main story has been done so many times in different ways & people are getting bored of it. I think it might be time to do somewhat of an totally re imagining of him using an else where tale when it comes to movies. Something different needs to be done with Superman. Like have Krypton still be around & Jor-El just sends his son to Earth so that he may live & grow up with a good life & Kara also gets sended to Earth & when Kal-El is old enough Kal-El returns to Krypton to take back the Planet & completely get rid of Lex Luthor & go with Supermans alien bad guys which would help give the movies more action
The Major
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Rick:
The problem isn't Superman's concept. It's just that the films never moved on from Donner's stuff.
They never move forward, they move backward. That's why its stagnant.
The franchise has plenty of potential to exploit. WB needs to use it.
Whatever they need to do with lose Luthor for a few movies then revamp him into his Post-Crisis version.
The problem isn't Superman's concept. It's just that the films never moved on from Donner's stuff.
They never move forward, they move backward. That's why its stagnant.
The franchise has plenty of potential to exploit. WB needs to use it.
Whatever they need to do with lose Luthor for a few movies then revamp him into his Post-Crisis version.
Octoberist
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very true. i love donner and his vision, but it's like we're stuck at gear one.
Darthkush
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I also agree. It's created this false miconception(especially to the general public) is that there is nothing to Superman EXCEPT Luthor, Zod, and everything you saw in the Chris Reeve movies. There's no Braniac, Darkseid, Metallo, Intergang or any other number of potentially interesting foes and situations.
I don't know if Superman needs an rebott per se'(partially because I don't think Superman Returns was terrible but also because I don't think the general public will understand the idea. I mean, they didn't get Incredible Hulk was any different. They didn't go to that so automatically, they're gonna do the SAME thing with an new superman movie to an degree and think it's somehow related to Returns), but more just like an continuation that is CLEARLY something different. For example, who says we have to bring back Bosworth as Lois Lane? Did we need Katie Holmes to return as Rachel in DArk Knight? Nope. And the audience went with it. We can bring back Routh and make him still obviously Superman and make it very clear that this is an different movie by...
A. an different director. I love Singer. I think people turned on him too much when he made Superman REturns. It's like everbody forgot how great his x-men films, usuals suspects, apt pupil, etc. were. HOWEVER, he needs to stay away from Superman. He's too hung up on the Donner films.
B. Tell the public this movie is different by SHOWING THEM in the trailers. Incredible Hulk(which I loved by the way. I thought it was excellant in everyway), to the general public, just looked like more of the same with an different cast. Nothing in it convinced them that it was any different. With Superman, that can be done much easier. Superman Returns had no villain in the trailers other than Luthor. I don't think people expected anything more than him and that's what they got. They just hoped it'd be good anyway. Superman HAS TO FIGHT SOMEONE. I can't stress that enough. If he doesn't, there's no way, this franchise can recover. The more special fx laden the better. I want Darkseid myself but really any big monstrous robot/alien, whatever superman classic villain will do as long as we can watch Clark Kent and this evil monster throw down.
C. Better Marketing. Blanket everything in Superman but when doing so, make sure the world knows that this movie is only slightly connected to Returns in maybe some of the cast returning and.....that's it. Emphasize the action aspect. Make things more comic book relevant rather than just one big Donner homage.
As for the other DC characters....
-WB stop with this idea of casting multiple versions of the Justice League. People are NOT gonna like the idea of having one actor as Flash in his own film and somebody else in JLA. It creates an disconnect that reminds you it's just an movie instead of an live action universe you happen to be witness to. It's an huge mistake. Marvel is wise in that they're hoping to have Cap, iron man, thor, hulk, etc. have all the same actors in their Avengers film. DC should be aiming for that to. And what about Bale? I agree that Batman may need to appear in some capacity but honestly, it's not gonna work withouth Bale so here's what you do. Give Bale an *****load of money to appear VERY VERY brielf, and be done with it. No Batman in the Justice League. I have faith it can somehow be worked out. Batman pops in for one or two scenes and that's it. I think Bale can be worked with to get that and that way you can still get your Batman action figures out if it, WB. All of the OTHER heroes in it, need to have been signed to an 3 picture deal when they are cast in their own solo movies though that includes an option for JLA.
-PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, go ahead and make an Green Lantern movie. The way the concept works, it's guaranteed gold with endless possibilities. Seems like WB has finally wisened up if IESB's story is genuine but they're basically doing it the way it should be done. Start with Jordan. Utilize the corps throughout all 2 or 3 GL forms. We get Sinestro, Kilowag, Guy and John, EVERYBODY(hell even throw Kyle in while you're at it. Just don't replace Hal. Have him be just another GL). After Bats and Supes, Green Lantern could be their 3rd biggest franchise. And for some spice, name the second film, The Green Lantern Corps
t:-Flash is another movie that they need to get going. Again, an lot of possibilities, especially with the generation aspect that the other superhero movies don't have. You can have the first film be about Barry, maybe throw in Kid Flash, transition to Wally taking over halfway through the 2nd film, and throughout all of them....THE ROGUES!
And you'd never kill any of them, they'd go in and out. Captain Cold, Mirror Master, Pied Piper, damnit, i want them all in some capacity!-After Bale/Nolan's next batman movie...STOP. For an little while anyway. Don't just hop into another Batman film with some recasting, retooling, etc. Give the public room to breath. If they do go into an new batman film that quickly, make it something so different that we won't all be in an tizzy. Dark Knight Returns, anyone? Why not dust off Batman Beyond? Lots of other possibilities other than just "Batman Begins 4 minus Bale/Nolan", ya know?
-Be extremely careful with Wonder Woman. How Wonder Woman should be handled, I think, will directly relate to how well Marvel's Thor performs. Huh? Well, think about it. All this mythic stuff with no real modern interaction is the plan for both(or at least last time we checked) with the possibility that the characters would be modernized late in the film or in the sequel. If Thor works(and i'm worried it won't. I would argue setting the entire film in Asgard is an mistake), then setting an entire WW in Themyscira might work but if Thor doesn't work that route, WB must be smart enough to don't do the same thing to Wonder Woman. Also, pick some villains and treat them with care. Whether it be Ares, Circe, Cheetah, whomever, cast them well and do it right. The only thing that worried me about what Whedon used to say about his Wonder Woman script was that Diana's villains all sucked and then I read that fabulous first fiew issues of the latest volume of the comic(I think it was Allen Heinberg who did that first story arc) that utilzed EVERY wonder woman villain to fantastic effect and made Whedon's comments seem ridiculous. Don't screw up Wonder Woman.
-Supermax should be Green Arrow II, not One. I'm not suggesting the first flick should be an origin flick(though I do think we need at least an brief flashback of it), having an flick where GA is out of costume THAT much and has his identitiy revealed to the public THAT early in his own franchise is an mistake. For the first film, I think we should explore some of GA's political/environmental interest and set up an rivalry between him and (what's the name of that other archer character?), Merlyn, I think and make him the big villain of the piece. Afterall, isn't he in supermax anyway. i won't spoil his role but it would make perfect sense for this movie to dovetail into supermax, not the opposite. I'd prefer to use Deathstroke but as we all know, we really need him for....
-Teen Titans which is another flick, WB better not f**k up. It should be serious in tone and use the success of the recent cartoon show to springboard the flick's popularity. Use the cast of the toon(cyborg, starfire, raven, beastboy/changeling and Robin/Dick Grayson) and focus it on the formation of the group and their initial battle with Deathstroke. In fact, introduce new Titan Terra late in the first film and then do the Judas Contract for the 2nd film. The third film would feature an battle with Trigon. Kid Flash would be absent due to him appearing in the Flash movies and Aqualad isn't really interesting enough to warrant appearing. I like Donna Troy enough to put her in but I think she maybe better suited as an supporting role or an easter egg in an Wonderwoman sequel.
-Birds of Prey could not only be an movie but it could be an launching pad and common ground for many other b-c level DC characters. The team is of course the classic Huntress, Black Canary, Oracle team. I might even go as far as to say we could have Green Arrow cross over into the bird films and vice vesa given the Canary connection. Hell, let's throw in the Question. What Timm and company did with him on JLU was excellant and use the same kind of stuff here. He'd work great in an Birds movie in an supporting role. Hell, he can even still poke Huntress to comedic effect lol.
phew. That'd be my initial ideas for most of the DCU
The Major
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Darthkush said:
I agree. Marvel's film counter-part to WW is definitely Thor.
They don't need her first movie to just be on Themyrscira. Gods and Monsters, the story line they need to base on for her origin, allows her to go to America. This will be an advantage they can use over Thor.
Heinberg didn't come close to showing her rogues gallery's potential, Darth. Read Perez and Rucka's runs for the good stuff.
hippie_hunter
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2010: Green Lantern, Man of Steel
2011: Batman 3/Wonder Woman
2012: Green Arrow/Flash
2013: Superman 3/Aquaman
2014: Green Lantern 2/Wonder Woman 2/Flash 2
2015: Justice League
2011: Batman 3/Wonder Woman
2012: Green Arrow/Flash
2013: Superman 3/Aquaman
2014: Green Lantern 2/Wonder Woman 2/Flash 2
2015: Justice League
Double Down
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This works for me.
Timstuff
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stargazer
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stargazer
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Timstuff
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I don't really see MOS coming out in 2010, wether it's a sequel or a reboot. WB is dragging their collective butt about it either way, so I don't see it happening till 2011 at the earliest. Add to that the strong possibility that WB is no longer interested in doing a sequel to SR, but would rather pursue a reboot, and you may as well tack yet another year on, since a reboot could take longer to develop.
These are some things WB has to do for future franchises.
1) Separate universes for each character - I know fans want this whole 'single continuity' thing that's in the comics, but for film, individual universes give the character a better chance to set up their own unique world with its own set of rules and therefore give it a better chance to tell different and compelling stories, it's a limitless canvas if you're not confined to staying within the boundaries set up by another franchise. Basically, it means foregoing a JL film.
2) Makes the films mature - If there one thing that I would drop to my knees and beg for WB execs not to do is make these film nothing more than 90 min toy ads. Treat the characters (and the audience) with respect, you don't need to rely on children to make up the big $$$, TDK has proven that you don't.
3) Take some risks - For all the cash Iron Man brought in, it really was nothing ground breaking in terms of cinema, nor was Hulk and I dare say neither will any of Marvels remaining films they have planned, Marvel will play it safe, they set the tone of their single universe in Iron Man and sadly they're stuck with it. WB has to take some risks, try different things, use heavier themes, more mature settings, write more complex and intelligent stories, effectively make films that makes the audience have to actually sit and watch, make their superhero films stand out above Marvels.
4) Let the Director tell the story - Simply put: WB need more Chris Nolan's to direct these films, directors who care enough about the story and the source and are willing to go that extra mile to see the character interpreted in a way that does the character justice, not just give us a 2 hour special effects show. WB can't get in the way, if the film needs 2 and a half hours to tell the story, let it run that long, don't demand a 2 hour cut just to fit in more cinema sessions.
5) Casting - This is a no brainer, they need solid talent for these roles, that doesn't mean going after superstars, that means going after credible actors, not big names. You want to cast a 24 year old unknown for Wonder Woman? That's fine, but surround her with the best possible supporting cast you can get, a film can live or die with it's casting.
1) Separate universes for each character - I know fans want this whole 'single continuity' thing that's in the comics, but for film, individual universes give the character a better chance to set up their own unique world with its own set of rules and therefore give it a better chance to tell different and compelling stories, it's a limitless canvas if you're not confined to staying within the boundaries set up by another franchise. Basically, it means foregoing a JL film.
2) Makes the films mature - If there one thing that I would drop to my knees and beg for WB execs not to do is make these film nothing more than 90 min toy ads. Treat the characters (and the audience) with respect, you don't need to rely on children to make up the big $$$, TDK has proven that you don't.
3) Take some risks - For all the cash Iron Man brought in, it really was nothing ground breaking in terms of cinema, nor was Hulk and I dare say neither will any of Marvels remaining films they have planned, Marvel will play it safe, they set the tone of their single universe in Iron Man and sadly they're stuck with it. WB has to take some risks, try different things, use heavier themes, more mature settings, write more complex and intelligent stories, effectively make films that makes the audience have to actually sit and watch, make their superhero films stand out above Marvels.
4) Let the Director tell the story - Simply put: WB need more Chris Nolan's to direct these films, directors who care enough about the story and the source and are willing to go that extra mile to see the character interpreted in a way that does the character justice, not just give us a 2 hour special effects show. WB can't get in the way, if the film needs 2 and a half hours to tell the story, let it run that long, don't demand a 2 hour cut just to fit in more cinema sessions.
5) Casting - This is a no brainer, they need solid talent for these roles, that doesn't mean going after superstars, that means going after credible actors, not big names. You want to cast a 24 year old unknown for Wonder Woman? That's fine, but surround her with the best possible supporting cast you can get, a film can live or die with it's casting.
Timstuff
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Well said, on all accounts. The one place I can see being a snare is number 4. On their one shoulder, Warner Bros. has a little angel (The Dark Knight) saying "Look, creative freedom for the director can give you one of the biggest hits ever!" But then on the other shoulder, they've got a little devil (Superman Returns) saying "Remember Bryan Singer? It seemed impossible for him to screw up. You gave him the keys to the Camaro, and he totaled it."
I hope that SR hasn't turned WB off to giving directors total creative freedom though, because TDK came out more recently, and it was an amazing success on all counts. I think that the key is to make sure that they've got people with good taste running the studio, and have them make sure the the director doesn't want to do something stupid before giving him the greenlight. If at any point during SR's production someone at WB had said "maybe this was a bad idea," maybe it wouldn't have been a disaster, but unfortunately they were too trusting of Singer as a brand name to even care that his idea was crap.
The Major
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There does need to be balance.
I agree.
But for that to work the execs need to correctly understand the comic franchises they're adapting. It's one of primary reasons WW's been in crappy shape as a film franchise. Unless they can do this accurately the more likely we'll end up with another Catwoman. No-one wants that.
Very true, however I think the first mistake wasn't so much giving Singer total control, it was they signed off on a film that was semi-related to a film nearly 30 years old. I think it wasn't just a case of giving Singer the keys to the cars, I think it was also a case of WB thinking people would just flock to the cinema 'because it's Superman', they blindly put their faith in semi-resurrecting the 30 year old Donner franchise when really that franchise is well past it's used by date. I don't think Singer is to blame totally, WB are just as much at fault. What Warner's need to learn is as long as the director is using the extensive library at DC to help create the best possible story for the character (which is what Nolan did and what Singer didn't), they should give as much freedom to the director as possible.
The Donner films are out of date, Superman as a franchise in general, well, it's not so much out of date, but I don't think the character resonates with the general public as much as it use to, which is why I think SR didn't have such a huge opening despite strong reviews.
The Major
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I agree mostly.
I do think you're underestimating the franchise. Superman can be relevant only its really tough to do that correctly. The films haven't tapped into most of the franchise's potential at all.
Ironically I think Singer could have done it but he was to obsessed with Donner's movies to reach that potential. He really needed Superman's version of Tom DeSanto.
chiefchirpa
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I don't think WB should make Flash a serious film.
Flash should be marketed as a family film with lots of Scarlet deformed Flash beanie merchandising and brightly colored rogues a la Spider-Man but not as stupid as Batman Forever/Batman & Robin.
Serious Film <Batman---Green Lantern---Wonder Woman---Superman---Flash>Family Film
Flash should be marketed as a family film with lots of Scarlet deformed Flash beanie merchandising and brightly colored rogues a la Spider-Man but not as stupid as Batman Forever/Batman & Robin.
Serious Film <Batman---Green Lantern---Wonder Woman---Superman---Flash>Family Film
The Major
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I think Flash should be similar in tone to the Spider-man films. Family friendly but not afraid to get really serious every once and a while.
WW should be more serious then GL, IMO.
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