I'm starting to get converted...

[ShadowBoxing]

While I have nothing against the Lord of the Rings-esque or Greek Titans spiritual mythos of the latter years, I find the most compelling story- from a pure sci-fi aspect- to be the Earth natural resources angle that formed the beginnings of the story here on Earth.

I also agree that in hindsight, some of the stories and situations were hammy. But that doesn't mean that the underlying concepts (or narrative as BF puts it) were hammy. In fact, it's one of the most interesting sci-fi premises I've ever seen (and I've seen and read A LOT of sci-fi).

Keep in mind though, Bob Bundinsky and Simon Furman were the ones responsible for the premise used by the show. The comics, not the show, came first. And while you're right the premise was good, the comics deserve credit and not only that they executed it much better than the show did.

(If you want to get technical Denny O'Neil wrote the premise actually and coined the name Optimus Prime).

 

[CFlash]

For one of the sequels I hope to see a Transformers origin sort of like what they showed at the beginning of LotR:RotK where you see a flashback of Sméagol killing Déagol. It fit in perfectly with the movie and would work with a Transformers origin as well IMO.

I think- in a sense- they do that in the movie... with Megatron eating souls and roaring over a wasteland of decapitated robots.

On a side/like note: having just reread the script, I realized the Sibling "myth" aspect is VERY STRESSED... not just mentioned in passing. So much so that Ironhide or one of the bots says "you sure you can kill your own brother" regarding Megatron.

IMHO this is a very contrived way to force an archetypical reference in the movie... but then again this is John Rogers. Anyone whose seen the nonsense in Catwoman would understand what I mean.

 

[CFlash]

Keep in mind though, Bob Bundinsky and Simon Furman were the ones responsible for the premise used by the show. The comics, not the show, came first. And while you're right the premise was good, the comics deserve credit and not only that they executed it much better than the show did.

(If you want to get technical Denny O'Neil wrote the premise actually and coined the name Optimus Prime).

Yup. All that is exactly what I was referring to. And I'd go a step forward (having lived through it) and say that many of our imaginations (at least mine and my friends) were captured BEFORE even the comic. The toy bios on the boxes were written by the same Marvel writers.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Yup. All that is exactly what I was referring to. And I'd go a step forward (having lived through it) and say that many of our imaginations (at least mine and my friends) were captured BEFORE even the comic. The toy bios on the boxes were written by the same Marvel writers.

Well a lot of what was in the early comic IS in the movie (and I cannot be the only one who has noticed how closely Prime resembles his box art picture from the 84 splash page), especially the interactions between Spike and Bumblebee. The only thing I'm really worried about now is not having ENOUGH robot to robot interactions and that the dialogue will be hard to stomach (if it could reach T2 level, frankly, I'd be fine).

 

[nosebleed.]

(If you want to get technical Denny O'Neil wrote the premise actually and coined the name Optimus Prime).

I only found this out about a year or two ago. It was cool to find out who specifically named him.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

I only found this out about a year or two ago. It was cool to find out who specifically named him.

Denny O Neil is quiet a talent, and it's odd he has never really heralded this achievement much.

Anyways, as for Mythos. The prequel comic looked promising as far as that goes. I really hope some of what was in there is later adapted into sequels.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Good points. However I think that a good historical background of what took place on cybertron before the wars could make the quest for the allspark more interesting. Everything about this plot has not been revealed yet so there may be some unique plot elements to this storyline that we'll have access to on July 2.

In retrospect I'm hoping the sequels have storylines that revolve around plundering the earth's resources. The two factions would be forced to rely on other strategies to defeat each other if the allspark is damaged or destroyed.

That would certainly be a great direction to take it.

I think Blind_Fury either has an extremely creative imagination or really has never seen the Transformers cartoons. I mean quoting the third season as being great Sci-Fi. The third season may have been good in spots but otherwise it was awful. The animation was subpar, the plots were annoying as hell for the most part. I'd say 50% of them are watchable, 50% of those are good, the rest being "dumb, but I like them".

I mean certainly the expanded the epic quality of it, but subtext. That was fully absent (unless you count Abdul Fakkati, who was a satire on current events).

 

[PogoMonogo]

That would certainly be a great direction to take it.

I think Blind_Fury either has an extremely creative imagination or really has never seen the Transformers cartoons. I mean quoting the third season as being great Sci-Fi. The third season may have been good in spots but otherwise it was awful. The animation was subpar, the plots were annoying as hell for the most part. I'd say 50% of them are watchable, 50% of those are good, the rest being "dumb, but I like them".

I mean certainly the expanded the epic quality of it, but subtext. That was fully absent (unless you count Abdul Fakkati, who was a satire on current events).

Huge fan of the show as a child myself, but I did have to snicker at the "Animal House for Children" comment. I am not sure how this movie is going to stack up in the grand scheme of things, but I can definitely say that people are looking at this through "rose colored" glasses as it were. For us, Transformers is frozen in our minds, its imperfections glossed over by our sheer enjoyment of the show and especially the toys. Like ANY cartoon from the 80's, in hindsight, the show (while far from the worst example, He-Man comes to mind) is not quite as titanic to watch as I remembered as a kid. Is that bad? No. I can recognize that if that EXACT show was to come on now, I would probably chalk it up to something equivalent to dragonballz. So, I don't think its unreasonable to think that a modern adaptation of the show would be HIGHLY edited for the majority of those not in my shoes. In truth, a G1 Megatron or Starscream would probably look awful on film. I would wager that if they did an exact transfer of them into modern CGI, most fans would be posting on this very forum that they looked cheesy, and that the movie people put zero thought or work into trying to realize them in "real life".

"The name is simply a tool to sell the movie (or something to that effect). Of course it is. If you are trying to sell this as some giant revelation, people on this forum truly are kidding themselves. When I first heard they were making this film, the first thing in my mind was not some epic retelling of the original cartoon. Please give me an example of a high cost movie based on a super-hero or cartoon where the story/character design was NOT tweaked, and in most cases severely. People will most likely say Spiderman, but honestly, there was QUITE a bit of tuning from the original series I grew up with. If you want the original cartoon series on a movie screen, go buy a bigger television. Would you buy a cover song thats an exact copy in every way? Whats the point?

/Rant off.
In conclusion, I am quite unsure as to whether or not this will be a good movie. I can't say I am a fan of any of Mr. Bay's previous work, but with that said, my gusto for Transformers is more than adequate enough to gloss over the possibility of it being awful, and atleast give it a chance. I for one will see the movie before posting my opinion on whether or not it was well done.

 

[nosebleed.]

Huge fan of the show as a child myself, but I did have to snicker at the "Animal House for Children" comment. I am not sure how this movie is going to stack up in the grand scheme of things, but I can definitely say that people are looking at this through "rose colored" glasses as it were. For us, Transformers is frozen in our minds, its imperfections glossed over by our sheer enjoyment of the show and especially the toys. Like ANY cartoon from the 80's, in hindsight, the show (while far from the worst example, He-Man comes to mind) is not quite as titanic to watch as I remembered as a kid. Is that bad? No. I can recognize that if that EXACT show was to come on now, I would probably chalk it up to something equivalent to dragonballz. So, I don't think its unreasonable to think that a modern adaptation of the show would be HIGHLY edited for the majority of those not in my shoes. In truth, a G1 Megatron or Starscream would probably look awful on film. I would wager that if they did an exact transfer of them into modern CGI, most fans would be posting on this very forum that they looked cheesy, and that the movie people put zero thought or work into trying to realize them in "real life".

"The name is simply a tool to sell the movie (or something to that effect). Of course it is. If you are trying to sell this as some giant revelation, people on this forum truly are kidding themselves. When I first heard they were making this film, the first thing in my mind was not some epic retelling of the original cartoon. Please give me an example of a high cost movie based on a super-hero or cartoon where the story/character design was NOT tweaked, and in most cases severely. People will most likely say Spiderman, but honestly, there was QUITE a bit of tuning from the original series I grew up with. If you want the original cartoon series on a movie screen, go buy a bigger television. Would you buy a cover song thats an exact copy in every way? Whats the point?

/Rant off.
In conclusion, I am quite unsure as to whether or not this will be a good movie. I can't say I am a fan of any of Mr. Bay's previous work, but with that said, my gusto for Transformers is more than adequate enough to gloss over the possibility of it being awful, and atleast give it a chance. I for one will see the movie before posting my opinion on whether or not it was well done.

well said

 

[CFlash]

Well a lot of what was in the early comic IS in the movie (and I cannot be the only one who has noticed how closely Prime resembles his box art picture from the 84 splash page), especially the interactions between Spike and Bumblebee. The only thing I'm really worried about now is not having ENOUGH robot to robot interactions and that the dialogue will be hard to stomach (if it could reach T2 level, frankly, I'd be fine).

Aside from the boy and his car concept I'm hardpressed to understand what that is. 4 million years buried (the most thought-provoking allegory IMHO)? Nope. Natural resources angle? Nope. Weak, slow Bumblebee? Nope. Supercomputer required to reformat the bots (Teletran-1)? Nope. (and to me thats like leaving out Cerebro).

Instead we have a A LOT of stuff taken from other movies and never in Transformers. Virus-like spread of machines as their mission? Yup. Megatron reverse engineered to make our iPods and TV's? Yup. Optimus and Megatron brothers? Yup. Human Commando Team kicking the Decepts butts? Yup.

 

[CFlash]

PogoMonogo, eventhough I disagree, that was very well-said. Your post belongs as a retort to Nosebleed's in the thread he started.

 

[PogoMonogo]

I just see so many people reference how the Japanese "appreciate" animation so much more than we do and revere it and such. It is true, but do you know what else they love to do? They celebrate and reinvent the SPIRIT of shows. They will take the basic concepts of shows, and just twist and reinvent and modernize to CELEBRATE the shows they revered. Ever heard of something called Gundam (that was sarcasim). They embrace and eat up these things, because they are excited to see where they can take these things they loved so much. Sometimes they nail it, and that "bud" off a show can even form its own long following and mythos. I for one find that to be both fascinating and something to be envious of.

 

[Crimson King]

I for one will see the movie before posting my opinion on whether or not it was well done.

That puts YOU in the minority around here, bucko.

 

[tviceman]

I've never loved the movie... tho I have many friends who loved it-- as a "final chapter movie."

Incidentally, that movie spelled the demise of the Transformers phenomenum.

Thats because the geniuses behind it all decided after two years of airing to make a movie and kill off all the favorite characters.

 

[nosebleed.]

I just see so many people reference how the Japanese "appreciate" animation so much more than we do and revere it and such. It is true, but do you know what else they love to do? They celebrate and reinvent the SPIRIT of shows. They will take the basic concepts of shows, and just twist and reinvent and modernize to CELEBRATE the shows they revered. Ever heard of something called Gundam (that was sarcasim). They embrace and eat up these things, because they are excited to see where they can take these things they loved so much. Sometimes they nail it, and that "bud" off a show can even form its own long following and mythos. I for one find that to be both fascinating and something to be envious of.

First off, I didn't welcome you to the threads before so...welcome t:

Now...I do appreciate the Japanese for their constant innovations when it comes to their animation style and storytelling. But their reimaginings don't always turn out to be positive things. I've seen many a good anime ruined by sequels that were so far off from the original that they no longer kept my audience because of the direction they decided to take...it just became a totally different animal.

Now in relation to this movie, I understand the need for change...and I understand the need for modernization. I don't understand why there couldn't have been more of a middleground though...especially when it came to the designs which could have easily been adapted to appeal to both existing fans AND general audiences.

After the designs sunk in my only hope was that the story was going to be innovative and expound upon the original, making it even better and smarter. But upon script reviews and recent movie reviews it seems like the story is not all that its cracked up to be...hence the pre-disappointment in this movie. Maybe I'll be proven wrong (which would be fine with me)...we'll see.

But anyway, hope to see your comments around here more. Its refreshing to read new well thought out posts.

 

[PogoMonogo]

I fully agree, the Japanese miss the mark, often. BUT, as someone who went to college for a Fine Arts degree, one the first things you learn is that, while yes, we are blessed with the occasional epiphany of brilliance, most of the world's masterpieces are the results of countless failures and re-toolings of old and discarded ideas.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

The only cartoon that had a dynamic plot was Robotech.

Robotech owned my socks off.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Just so we're also clear, BW Agenda > Transformer: The Movie 1986 and BW Megatron > Unicron and here is why

The future has changed, yessss. The Autobots lose, Evil Trimuphs!!! And you...YOU - NO - LONGER - EXISSSTTTTT!!!!!!!

 

[CFlash]

Robotech owned my socks off.

Robotech is like the Lord of Rings of toons.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Robotech is like the Lord of Rings of toons.

I'd say it and Beast Wars are among the best things I've ever seen marketed to kids.

 

[CFlash]

I'd say it and Beast Wars are among the best things I've ever seen marketed to kids.

Well if we're going there, my vote is for Gargoyles. One of the most intelligent toons I've ever seen. Robotech kinda stands above it all somehow tho.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Well if we're going there, my vote is for Gargoyles. One of the most intelligent toons I've ever seen. Robotech kinda stands above it all somehow tho.

Well Robotech did have the balls to eradicate all life on earth save those aboard the SDF-1, that was some TV show.

 

[Modernize73]

Robotech is like the Lord of Rings of toons.

My man, I can't agree with you more...I really really enjoyed this series...

I owned all of the books, and really got into the cartoons. To be honest with you, I thought there would be a Live action Robotech movie made before a transformers one. Although it is a pretty slim fan base.

The story line was pretty intense...except for that whole music calming a race thing. I guess that's what happens when a rock guitarist writes novels.

 

[Theweepeople]

When will Robotech be made into a live action series? We have a transformers movie. A speed racer movie. Rumours about thundecats, voltron, and a He-Man movie. We need Robotech!!!!

 

[The Kid]

someone explain the difference between Macross and robotech to me. That's always been puzzling...