The Dark Knight Rises Inspirations for the Third Film

[nolan's roll'n]

What comic books will BB3 be based on? What do you guys think? What do you guys want? Post pics.

 

[Sexecutioner]

Book 1 of "The Dark Knight Returns" maybe?

 

[warren_sparta27]

Was hoping it would be Dark Victory. Not too sure anymore.

Maybe Something like Hush would be good, maybe with Two-face being Hush like it was rumored to be when the comics were coming out.

Otherwise i wouldn't mind seeing Knightfall on film. Give Nolan a chance to do one of Batman's best villians on film. Bane.

Hopefully one of those 3 stories is used as the basis for a possible 3rd film.

 

[DACrowe]

Dark Victory's themes I want to see explored. Him at his lowest and his rising from the ashes into a new Gotham at the end (whether Robin is there or not). Albeit we will need different villains, though.

 

[Nepenthes]

Dark Victory has flimsy themes. They're barely there. I don't know why people point to it as the Robin origin story.

 

[returntovoid]

It should be inspired by.

Detective Comics #140 (The Riddler's First Appearance)
Batman#62 (Catwoman's First Origin Story)
Batman: Hush (The Riddler's Dark Portrayal & Batman/Catwoman Chemistry)
Batman: The Long Halloween (The Riddler,Two-Face Portrayal & Mob Element)
Batman: Dark Victory (Robin's Darker Introduction)
Batman #1 (Batman & Catwoman's First Encounter)

 

[Nepenthes]

^ those are not the definitive or even interesting Catwoman, Riddler, or Robin stories at all. They're only first appearances. The best Riddler stories include the Gaiman origin, the Year One story charting his rise, the LotDK make-over arc and the recent Paul Dini private investigator developments in Detective Comics. If AMH is indeed The Riddler he'll be a media-centric quasi-legitimate celebrity showman, which points to Gaiman and Dini as the best original examples.

Catwoman is all Brubaker for his re-conception and actually building a real personality and lifeinto her, Loeb in When in Rome, Frank Millers Year One and My Sisters Keeper by Mindy Newell.


Influences for movie three...

Hush
All Star Batman & Robin
The Cult

These are my definites for now, following on a theme of redeption and renewed hope/legacy. The rest depends on what villains are being used. I don't fully buy Bales rejection of Robin either, he'd say that anyway and his mind can always be changed. Jonah Nolan is the guy with the ball here, he'll be the one that convinces Chris Nolan that Robin is worthwhile. And CRITICALLY, the vigilantes in TDK show that they're ALREADY approaching the concept. Robin is the natural themetic follow through for both escalation and redemption, not too mention a nice bookend to a trilogy that began with a traumatized boy, following his path to legendary greatness.

If Nolan and Bale think Robin is silly, then Batman Begins must also be silly.

 

[returntovoid]

^ those are not the definitive or even interesting Catwoman, Riddler, or Robin stories at all. They're only first appearances. The best Riddler stories include the Gaiman origin, the Year One story charting his rise, the LotDK make-over arc and the recent Paul Dini private investigator developments in Detective Comics. If AMH is indeed The Riddler he'll be a media-centric quasi-legitimate celebrity showman, which points to Gaiman and Dini as the best original examples.

Catwoman is all Brubaker for his re-conception and actually building a real personality and lifeinto her, Loeb in When in Rome, Frank Millers Year One and My Sisters Keeper by Mindy Newell.


Influences for movie three...

Hush
All Star Batman & Robin
The Cult

These are my definites for now, following on a theme of redeption and renewed hope/legacy. The rest depends on what villains are being used. I don't fully buy Bales rejection of Robin either, he'd say that anyway and his mind can always be changed. Jonah Nolan is the guy with the ball here, he'll be the one that convinces Chris Nolan that Robin is worthwhile. And CRITICALLY, the vigilantes in TDK show that they're ALREADY approaching the concept. Robin is the natural themetic follow through for both escalation and redemption, not too mention a nice bookend to a trilogy that began with a traumatized boy, following his path to legendary greatness.

If Nolan and Bale think Robin is silly, then Batman Begins must also be
silly.

I listed some of the first appearances for Riddler and Catwoman because Nolan used Joker's first two appearance as inspiration for the TDK Joker.
I agree with the storylines you mentioned above but about All Star Batman & Robin, I thought Batman's portrayal by Miller in All Star was really bastardly and he acted like an ******* with Robin and Alfred.

 

[warren_sparta27]

All Star Batman & Robin should not be looked at as inspiration for a future Nolan film at all.
The only thing good about that title is the art.
Damn that goddamned Batman!

 

[returntovoid]

All Star Batman & Robin should not be looked at as inspiration for a future Nolan film at all.
The only thing good about that title is the art.
Damn that goddamned Batman!

Yeah I agree, Jim Lee's artwork is really amazing.

 

[Nepenthes]

Of course I don't mean ASBR as a whole, but merely aspects of it. Bruce would be 'deeper' into his batman personae, making him seem more maniacal, jaded and remote. His world and his city would be that much more outlandish and volatile now. I'm also talking in terms of the stylistic treatment and not just the content of the story; everything should be meaner and more pumped up, more surreal and even comicbooky I daresay but the difference would be that we know how his world became like this, it's still grounded in teh realismz. Then there's the obvious parallel with the origin of Robin, but more so I also think that any film Robin should borrow heavily from Millers ideas about Robin in ASBR.


Also I'm not particularly fond of Hush but that doesn't mean I cant see how it would be a good influence or mirror of sorts for a third film. If you're gonna restrict things to only what you subjectively value, at the expense of the things it can deliver, then you're not really having this debate at all are you. Also I really doubt that any single comic book story can be a strong influence on the next film, but they can be *similar* in themselves, and we can still talk about that. I mean that from here on no story is going to be as influential as Year One or TLH have been so far. There won't be any other influences like that.

For example another 'mirror' might be Batman:100. Think of the pace and tone of the book with Batman as a hunted man and that feeling of constant danger.

I listed some of the first appearances for Riddler and Catwoman because Nolan used Joker's first two appearance as inspiration for the TDK Joker.
I agree with the storylines you mentioned above but about All Star Batman & Robin, I thought Batman's portrayal by Miller in All Star was really bastardly and he acted like an ******* with Robin and Alfred.

Fair enough but the difference is that the Jokers first appearances are a) awesome and b) quite similar to his modern incarnations and more so the way he's presented in TDK. If Catwoman or Riddler were based closely on their first appearances in the comics then we'd have a serious problem.

 

[warren_sparta27]

Yeah i guess you're right in some ways there then.

I honestly think that if they do decide to go with the Riddler then Hush is the best way to go. I don't want to see another Out there, in your face, over the top Riddler like in the 60's show and BF. I'd rather the smarter, behind the scenes, orchestrating Riddler from Hush.

 

[returntovoid]

Yeah i guess you're right in some ways there then.

I honestly think that if they do decide to go with the Riddler then Hush is the best way to go. I don't want to see another Out there, in your face, over the top Riddler like in the 60's show and BF. I'd rather the smarter, behind the scenes, orchestrating Riddler from Hush.

I totally agree with you, I would also rather see the Riddler from Hush.

 

[The Shadow]

Base it on oh, I don't know.....lets say, Detective Comics #38.


: )

 

[warren_sparta27]

Sorry but what happened in Tec 38?

 

[jtfaria]

The theme for TDK was 'escalation'. The theme for the subsequent film should be 'corruption' or (related) 'temptation'. That is: The corruption/temptation of Batman.

I agree that he will be more 'wanted' or 'hunted' than he has been so far. This degree of ingratitude, as it were, on the part of the city he is saving, pushes him in the direction of temptations or corruptions that (falsely) promise relief.

Beyond that, you weave in villains and plotlines as needed. In this context, Riddler probably works. At this point, Batman sees his world as a massive riddle anyway.

 

[BobJM]

That's actually pretty interesting.

 

[DACrowe]

Dark Victory has flimsy themes. They're barely there. I don't know why people point to it as the Robin origin story.

Didn't care for it? While it isn't nearly as good as The Long Halloween or the other of the origins trilogy, Year One, it does round things off very nicely. And I'm not saying it should be a straight adaptation of the novel (if you have read some of the spoilers you know it cannot be) and I doubt we'll see Robin.

But the basic idea is that Batman is broken after the events of TLH (and probably will be after TDK), the hope for a "dawn in Gotham" seems to have disappeared. Nobody believes in Harvey Dent now and Batman is so alienated after the events he no longer even trusts Jim Gordon. His character needs to go through a form of catharsis so that he will find the strength to be Batman forevermore and know he is making a difference and the movie can end hopeful with Gotham perhaps making a change for the better (you cannot do that in comics as they have to keep going, but in the movies you could).

This could be explored in him brining down the mafia for good and finding out he is not alone. How do you do this without Robin? That is a good question. I would say using Catwoman and rekindling his friendship with Jim Gordon very carefully would be the best way to go about it.

But the idea of Batman in his deepest brooding mode and able to rise from the ashes as Gotham's true defender and with the city not on the edge of complete self-destruction (as it is in the second installment) would be a strong basis for a third film. You'd have to change the characters and plot, but thematically Dark Victory is a very smart direction to take the series.

 

[Zack Morris]

What comic books will BB3 be based on? What do you guys think? What do you guys want? Post pics.

Batman #66:

I'm very interested in seeing Christopher Nolan's "realistic" take on committing boners. It may require recasting the Joker, but I can live with that. Just imagine Paul Bettany delivering the line, "Gotham City will rue the day it mentioned the word *****!"

 

[darkseid26]

if they recast the joker they should base it on the killing jke, have joker escape from arkham, buy the carnival and stuff, replace babs with gordans wife, i can see this happening.

 

[Laderlappen]

Dark Victory for Two-face & TLH/DV and Hush for Catwoman. They can always borrow some things from other stories. And like the previous movies, it should be inspired by these stories and not based on 'em.

 

[returntovoid]

Dark Victory for Two-face & TLH/DV and Hush for Catwoman. They can always borrow some things from other stories. And like the previous movies, it should be inspired by these stories and not based on 'em.

I totally agree with that.

 

[The Shadow]

Sorry but what happened in Tec 38?

Warren........Robin happened in Detective Comics # 38

 

[BigCityBoy]

Nolan said "Blade Runner" was his inspiration for Batman Begins then for The Dark Knight he said "Heat" was the inspiration for that movie. So what movie do you think his inspiration will be for the third movie (if he does it)?

 

[gwynplaine]

Good thread.
If hopefully Nolan returns, I think we can expect something very different than BB or TDK because that's how he rolls (and doing the same would be silly b/c how can you top TDK really ?).

After the epic Batman, I wouldn't mind the claustrophobic, more horrific one, set partly in Arkham.

I would like him to reference the great film noir like Welles' Touch of evil or Laughton's night of the hunter, like I said something different, almost expressionistic.

And if Nolan doesn't return, I'd love to see a period Batman with a Joker that looks like my avvy. (Tod Browning's "Freaks" or any Lon Chaney movie would be a great starting point for that.)