Is Anyone Else Getting a Little Tired of The Berlanti DC Shows?

[kguillou]

When Arrow came out in 2012, it was a breath of fresh air. After years of blue balls from Smallville and a "kinda-sorta" superhero show in the form of "Heroes," here we finally had a show that embraced superheroics. There was no BS, right from the pilot, this was a show about a guy dressing up in a costume and fighting crime and it was done well. Oliver Queen was a compelling character with a mysterious past and was much grittier than his comic book counterpart. The best part about the show was that it seemed like it was a window to a larger DC Universe with the introduction of characters like Deathstroke, Deadshot, The Suicide Squad, The Huntress and of course, Barry Allen, The Flash. The show was fun and had a compelling story to hook you.

Now, we have four different tv shows set in this universe running concurrently with each other and over the course of this past television season I found myself becoming a little tired of them. I loved the Flash's first season but found myself kind of bored with season 2. Legends of Tomorrow started off strong and then kind of lost me. And Arrow....that show seems to be lost altogether. This Fall is the first time I find myself not invested in watching these shows anymore when it used to be the thing I looked forward to on tv. And now, we're getting news that another Berlanti show, Black Lightning is coming.

Now, maybe its just me and I'm alone in this, but I realized the issue I have with these shows is the "Berlanti formula." These shows, while different in tone, all follow a similar formula and format. While the shows all have overarching story archs, they all have this episodic format where the hero or heroine fights one off villains that has some tangental tie to a morality lesson that they're going to learn in that particular episode. Not only that, we're forced to watch the heroes go after the season villain for 22 episodes and by the time the final confrontation happens, you just want to get it over with. Legends of Tomorrow had a simple concept: Find Vandall Savage and take him down. But because the season is 16 episodes, they have to find contrived ways of stretching it out with filler episodes. LoT shouldn't have been more than 8 episodes, imo.

I mean, I get it, network tv is a different beast from HBO, Showtime, AMC, or Netflix but I feel like these shows could strive to be better and doesn't have to be so formulaic. Right now, Gotham is my favorite DC show on tv and quite possibly the only one I'll be following from now on. It started very rough but in season two it found its footing and identity and found a way make each episode compelling and serialized so that you felt compelled to watch the next episode to see whats going to happen next. I feel like the CW DC shows should take note from this. Why do we have to have these corny one off supervillains who do nothing but cackle and act as a foil to the hero? Take the Batman TAS approach. Build them up, give them arcs, show their descent into villainy, that way when they do become a villain there is gravitas and tragic emotional weight behind it. Flash, in particular is a big offender in this area. I just got so tired of the corny, flat one dimensional villains so fast. And it looks like Supergirl has that same problem.

Anyway, I have much more to say on this but I want to open the floor to you guys to see what you think? Am I just outgrowing those types of shows? Can they be better? Is there a problem at all? What are your thoughts?

 

[BH/HHH]

Not at all I love them better than the DCEU or the MCU.

Arrow's gone abit rubbish but I think they can bring it back still. The Flash and Supergirl are fantastic, best comics to scene anything at the moment. Legends is a good concept that had moments of greatness and I believe it will improve now that they know what the show is.

Admittedly the Berlanti formula is repetitive across the shows, mostly with the intros but the shows all feel different enough that it overcomes that formula. I wish Berlanti was able to play with Superman (as a full on show), Batman and the entire DCU I think he'd do great stuff. Especially as I think superheroes fit TV better than films as they can tell more stories and it feels more comic book styled.

All I can suggest is if you aren't a fan of them then just stop watching them. I'm not having a go here but I remember people complaining about Smallville and I always just thought why are you watching it.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

I got tired midway of season 1 of Gotham City 90210, err.. I mean Arrow

 

[Bats123]

i love The Flash, probably my favorite superhero show after Daredevil, i stopped watching Arrow halfway through season 3, which is a real shame cus Arrow S2 was great, Supergirl is meh, Legends is alright, but im not in a hurry to keep watching.

 

[ManWithNoName18]

There mostly fun in a low budget cheesy way. And I watch most of them. But it would be cool to have something of more "prestige" like the kind Marvel has in their Netflix series. If AMC, FX, HBO, Amazon, etc picked up a DC show and took it seriously that would be cool thing to see.

 

[Rorschach2012]

These shows need to be ten episodes a season. So many truly ****ing horrible filler episodes that are genuinely unwatchable

They're good but suffer from the length of the seasons

 

[chamber-music]

I stopped watching Arrow. The show just is entertaining anymore for me. I stopped watching LoT. I don't really like the show that much so ditched it.

I like The Flash. The show is my favorite of all these CW DC shows.

Gotham and Supergirl are hit and miss for me. Some episodes I like and some I find terribly boring.

 

[Rowsdower!]

Yeah, I got tired of it right around the time they did that awful Arrow/Flash crossover with Vandal Savage and the Hawks. That was so ****ing lame and it all just kept getting worse from there. I gave up on Arrow. I'll still watch The Flash but season 2 was a huge letdown. Zoom was a terrible villain. Couldn't get into LoT at all.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

I find that if I don't follow these shows religiously I enjoy them a lot more. A lot of the unplanned writing is boneheaded, but I do like seeing some of my favorite characters like Flash, Black Canary, and Supergirl even though it can be mediocre at times.

Until DC can get something like Marvel/Netflix going I won't get invested because I'll only end up disappointed.

 

[Lencho01]

I say all these shows should just pull a Gotham and pretty much cut their seasons into two shorter ones.

 

[kguillou]

YES! That's what I'm saying I think a big part of the issue is that these shows just have too many episodes per season. I think the 23-23 episodes structure puts so much of a strain on the writers to string things along and pad things out as much as possible and that leads to filler episodes and contrived ways of stretching the season story arc. Gotham found a brilliant way of handling it by dividing the season into two main arcs.

I think these shows would all be stronger if they had tighter focus on narrative like Gotham, Daredevil, Jessica Jones etc. instead of "villain of the week filler until we get to main baddie" type episodes. But I think that's just how Berlanti likes to structure his shows. You can tell he's a comic book lover and I love him for that, but I think these shows are a little TOO comic-book-y if that makes any sense sometimes.

 

[BH/HHH]

I agree that's one thing that round work doing a season as two shorter seasons. But that's probably the only thing I'd take from Gotham.

I actually like the 'freak of the week' (for jack of a better term) aspect though cause most of the comics I read as a kid were like that. The way they do it with an overarching plot but still keeping the villain a week format works for me. But I do agree it would be more effective in shorter seasons.

Season 1 of Legends dragged out the Savage angle far too long, it really hindered the show. They would have benefitted from doing 8 episodes on the Savage angle then the remaining 8 on a new focus.

 

[Flint Marko]

I'm still trying to get into them. I've started the first season of Arrow and was hooked for a little bit, but my interest tapered off and things got sort of busy with me. I still want to give them a chance, but that's just so many hours of television to watch.

 

[Slade W]

Not yet, I still enjoy them, but nowhere near as much as I used to sadly. Arrows drop in quality is a shame, and Flash seems to be going down too. That said, they are still my favourite live-action superhero adaptions these days, along with the Netflix shows which I think are better. I enjoy these shows more than I do the movies that come out these days, even though I like them too (I am referring to the MCU ones, as I am not a fan of the DCEU).

 

[BestGirl]

Too much of the same thing will always become monotonous. The CW should definitely allow Berlanti to run the show of his choice and find another person to run the others.

 

[BH/HHH]

I'm still trying to get into them. I've started the first season of Arrow and was hooked for a little bit, but my interest tapered off and things got sort of busy with me. I still want to give them a chance, but that's just so many hours of television to watch.

I think that's a problem when watching them together, it all gets a bit repetitive and this is from someone that loves these shows. I think they're best watched weekly as they air rather than all together.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

I agree that's one thing that round work doing a season as two shorter seasons. But that's probably the only thing I'd take from Gotham.

I actually like the 'freak of the week' (for jack of a better term) aspect though cause most of the comics I read as a kid were like that. The way they do it with an overarching plot but still keeping the villain a week format works for me. But I do agree it would be more effective in shorter seasons.

Season 1 of Legends dragged out the Savage angle far too long, it really hindered the show. They would have benefitted from doing 8 episodes on the Savage angle then the remaining 8 on a new focus.

But even comics have deviated from the "freak of the week" structure to where the 6 issue/1 volume arc has long become the new "normal". Yes, there are a couple of filler character/backstory issues in between the 6 issue arcs to give personnel a break. The one-offs are closer in nature to "freak of the week" formula.

 

[kguillou]

I think that's a problem when watching them together, it all gets a bit repetitive and this is from someone that loves these shows. I think they're best watched weekly as they air rather than all together.

I think you may be on to something there. I think perhaps these shows are best watched week to week and they're probably designed that way as opposed to binge watching something like Daredevil or Breaking Bad where each episode is more like a chapter in a book.

I kind of fear that Berlanti is stretching himself too thin, though. If Black Lightning gets picked up, thats FIVE DC superhero shows, each with presumably 20-22 episode seasons. Is it going to become too much at one point?

 

[Flint Marko]

I think that's a problem when watching them together, it all gets a bit repetitive and this is from someone that loves these shows. I think they're best watched weekly as they air rather than all together.

About the time that the girl on the motorcycle was introduced (which felt early on in the first season) is when I felt a noticeable decline in my interest. Maybe you're right, spacing things out could probably help.
In fairness to Arrow I'm that way with pretty much every network TV show. There's very few (30 Rock and arrested development, and a few more comedies) I can watch back to back without getting bored. It's just not my preferred medium. But there was more than enough good in Arrow to warrant a return.

 

[Slade W]

About the time that the girl on the motorcycle was introduced (which felt early on in the first season) is when I felt a noticeable decline in my interest. Maybe you're right, spacing things out could probably help.
In fairness to Arrow I'm that way with pretty much every network TV show. There's very few (30 Rock and arrested development, and a few more comedies) I can watch back to back without getting bored. It's just not my preferred medium.

I think you are talking about Huntress. You must be on either episode 7 or 8. Episode 9 is very good IMO and I think the show picks up after that.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

I've no doubt that part of Stranger Things' success was it's length. Every second of the first season was precious and went unwasted. In 8 episodes it told the story it had to tell without lingering too long on any superfluous story beats.

 

[Fincher]

I don't watch Flash or Supergirl, so that likely helps with avoiding repetition. I think villain of the week episodes come down to execution, the same as the main plot. I wouldn't want nothing but standalone episodes, but that's never been the case with Arrow.

 

[BH/HHH]

But even comics have deviated from the "freak of the week" structure to where the 6 issue/1 volume arc has long become the new "normal". Yes, there are a couple of filler character/backstory issues in between the 6 issue arcs to give personnel a break. The one-offs are closer in nature to "freak of the week" formula.

Oh yeah of course they have but I think given I am a fan of that Byrne era Sueprman for example. That's how it was in my day.

About the time that the girl on the motorcycle was introduced (which felt early on in the first season) is when I felt a noticeable decline in my interest. Maybe you're right, spacing things out could probably help.
In fairness to Arrow I'm that way with pretty much every network TV show. There's very few (30 Rock and arrested development, and a few more comedies) I can watch back to back without getting bored. It's just not my preferred medium. But there was more than enough good in Arrow to warrant a return.

Oh yeah Huntress, want a fan of her on the show tbh. You need to get to Season 2 though, it's gold. Some of the best live action Superhero stuff I've seen.

I think you may be on to something there. I think perhaps these shows are best watched week to week and they're probably designed that way as opposed to binge watching something like Daredevil or Breaking Bad where each episode is more like a chapter in a book.

I kind of fear that Berlanti is stretching himself too thin, though. If Black Lightning gets picked up, thats FIVE DC superhero shows, each with presumably 20-22 episode seasons. Is it going to become too much at one point?

Yeah and tbh I actually prefer that personally. Don't get me wrong I loved Breaking Bad and Daredevil (first season anyway) but I prefer the way the Berlanti shows do it, even if I do think 20+ episodes is too many.

From what's been rumoured though, Black Lightning been a retired older superhero with two daughters that could provide an interesting dynamic.

 

[Fincher]

In the case of Legends of Tomorrow, it did suffer from repetition, but I'd chalk that up not to solo episodes but rather them having one specific mission from beginning to end and continually failing until they finally succeeded. I think there should have been a secondary villain who was with Vandal over the course of time, and then halfway through or so they take that villain out. One, it would mean they were making progress, and two, it would better explain why they weren't able to defeat Vandal before then because this more physically imposing villain would keep getting in the way.

 

[BH/HHH]

In the case of Legends of Tomorrow, it did suffer from repetition, but I'd chalk that up not to solo episodes but rather them having one specific mission from beginning to end and continually failing until they finally succeeded. I think there should have been a secondary villain who was with Vandal over the course of time, and then halfway through or so they take that villain out. One, it would mean they were making progress, and two, it would better explain why they weren't able to defeat Vandal before then because this more physically imposing villain would keep getting in the way.

I would have split the two stories of the season, first half would be them taking down Savage and succeeding. The second half would be the time lords trying to take them out for what they did to history.