Is fandom scaring away top talent?

[Greens]

I'm a fan of things, but I don't like to see myself as part of a monolith "fandom" because that's where all the crazies are. The fandom this, the fandom that. I'll think for myself, thank you.

 

[Fincher]

I had to tell a guy railing about TLJ that Disney is making a SW film every year, so chances are if they make 10 films over the next 10 years, one of these films will piss you off. So just enjoy the other nine, but no, fans expect every film in their franchise to be utter perfection or they'll cry a river about it.

I can't speak to how extreme the guy in question was being in his complaints, but just looking at the 10 movies in 10 years scenario, it kind of makes it sound like these are 10 self-contained reboots that have no effect on each other, and fans are making a huge deal about one island unto itself instead of waiting a year for the next one.

Rather, The Last Jedi was unfortunate enough to fall in the intersection between (1) fans of the original trilogy and/or the EU who have a vested interest in what kind of Jedi Master Luke ends up being and think the opportunity to do it right in film is now blown (2) fans who take canon seriously and care about what canonically happens to the original trilogy characters rather than just pretending everything after the original trilogy didn't happen (with the decanonization of the EU only exacerbating it), and (3) fans of The Force Awakens who care about whether the story of those characters pans out. So I don't think Rogue One or the first movie in Rian's proposed trilogy would garner the same level of animosity relative to how good they are, because there just isn't as much riding on them.

 

[batfreakforever]

Listen, I'm pretty much a fan of all the major franchises (except for Harry Potter and Jurassic Park) but there's something really rotten in the Star Wars fan community above all the others. It's really troubling, and I don't blame talent from steering away from it now.

The star wars community has always been rotten. Always.
The pinnacle of manbabies.

I mainly see that the hate comes from grown men who grew up with the original trilogy and just can't stand their beloved childhood trilogy
touched or add to before or after the timeline of the original trilogy.

Those fans won't let anyone say anything negative or even compare an experience or film to that trilogy.

Most arguments nearly all lead back to that trilogy. Cgi to practical effects. To acting????.
Story points. Directors.
It all leads to the OT.

Now those manbabies have a voice. The internet. Social media. YouTube videos. Forums. Twitter. Facebook. The list is endless and its all instant for the world to see.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Seems a bit much. Has any keyboard warrior actually proven to be a threat?

Rian Johnson wrecked Star Wars, and as far as I can tell he's still enjoying his undeserved wealth and fame. And then there's the late DC cinematic universe.

I'd happily take on some salty social media users for the millions of dollars any of these people got for the train wrecks they have been churning out.

Get me a tiny violin while you're at it.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Seems a bit much. Has any keyboard warrior actually proven to be a threat?

Rian Johnson wrecked Star Wars, and as far as I can tell he's still enjoying his undeserved wealth and fame. And then there's the late DC cinematic universe.

I'd happily take on some salty social media users for the millions of dollars any of these people got for the train wrecks they have been churning out.

Get me a tiny violin while you're at it.

And see... I think this is kind of a mild version of what this thread is talking about. I'm sorry but it just comes off like something a teen would say man.

 

[Thundercrack85]

And see... I think this is kind of a mild version of what this thread is talking about. I'm sorry but it just comes off like something a teen would say man.

What, I am supposed to feel sorry for millionaires who can't handle a bunch of nerds *****ing online?

Everyone is acting like teenagers. But at the end of the day the only thing the nerds have is nostalgia, while the "offended" party has millions for downright terrible movies.

Also if Rian Johnson is top talent, what is bottom shelf? I mean, I thought JJ Abrams was a visionless hack. The man is ****ing Kubrick next to Johnson.

Maybe I wouldn't be so critical if I they didn't put out such complete ****. They brought Star Wars and the entire DC Universe to its knees.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

What, I am supposed to feel sorry for millionaires who can't handle a bunch of nerds *****ing online?

Everyone is acting like teenagers. But at the end of the day the only thing the nerds have is nostalgia, while the "offended" party has millions for downright terrible movies.

As for the bolded... I would hope fans of anything would have more in their lives than just nostalgia and would be able to keep things in perspective. This might be too much to ask given we're from the generation that made "raped my childhood" a thing, I know but at what point is it too much to have adults NOT act like teenagers?

No offense but your initial post is brimming with an attitude of hurt and anger that belies the subject matter being discussed.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Well they did destroy Star Wars (metaphorically and financially), and run a entire cinematic universe into the ground all while making a fortune. So I do feel that they are being rather thin-skinned.

I assume you have some affection for these various franchises, given the nature of this forum.

But let's see if JJ Abrams can right the ship, at least financially.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

 

[-JKR-]

Are you sure?

I mean, personally I know I want top talent working with the major tentpoles, I want creative and unique voices telling me stories within my favorite franchises. I don't want corporate cookie-cutter stories approved by a boardroom of executives and made for the lower common denominator fan, just to ensure the film ticks off all the right boxes and doesn't offend anyone's personal head canon, and doesn't change a character in a way they don't like.

But are we so sure EVERYONE wants this? Because it's one thing to not like a film, and quite another to pour venom and be completely nasty towards a filmmaker just because he/she made a movie you didn't like. I had to tell a guy railing about TLJ that Disney is making a SW film every year, so chances are if they make 10 films over the next 10 years, one of these films will piss you off. So just enjoy the other nine, but no, fans expect every film in their franchise to be utter perfection or they'll cry a river about it. Listening to some of these people being crabby about Ant-Man and the Wasp, how disappointing it was and how the box office is underwhelming,....just frankly irritating.

It seems like folks just want to be on the negative side of everything.

You just gotta scroll through my posts to find out how much of an advocate for filmmaker-driven movies I am.

I'll take a Tim Burton 'Batman Returns' over generic cookie-cutter material any day.

Who cares what EVERYONE wants? Especially if 'everyone' are people whining on message boards and comments sections. I still can't believe the uproar those people caused about 'Iron Man 3,' leading Marvel Studios to backtrack on their own ****ing movie, while the general audience/regular people (AND critics) actually really loved the movie.

 

[samsnee]

Well they did destroy Star Wars (metaphorically and financially), and run a entire cinematic universe into the ground all while making a fortune. So I do feel that they are being rather thin-skinned.

I assume you have some affection for these various franchises, given the nature of this forum.

But let's see if JJ Abrams can right the ship, at least financially.

How did they destroy it financially? Solo was a mis-step but TLJ still made a billion dollars.

 

[Abudefduf]

Seems a bit much. Has any keyboard warrior actually proven to be a threat?

Rian Johnson wrecked Star Wars, and as far as I can tell he's still enjoying his undeserved wealth and fame. And then there's the late DC cinematic universe.

I'd happily take on some salty social media users for the millions of dollars any of these people got for the train wrecks they have been churning out.

Get me a tiny violin while you're at it.

You'd have a point if Johnson were the only target, but he's not. This anti-TLJ campaign is just a new branch of an older harassment movement that started years ago, a movement that it's unfortunately still alive and kicking and that it's currently targeting dozens of artists and content creators in general.

 

[-JKR-]

Seems a bit much. Has any keyboard warrior actually proven to be a threat?

Rian Johnson wrecked Star Wars, and as far as I can tell he's still enjoying his undeserved wealth and fame. And then there's the late DC cinematic universe.

I'd happily take on some salty social media users for the millions of dollars any of these people got for the train wrecks they have been churning out.

Get me a tiny violin while you're at it.

Oh my God....



THIS is the problem. You didn't like 'The Last Jedi'? Big deal, dude. Get the **** over it. I didn't like it too much, either. Doesn't mean I'll develop a hatred for Rian Johnson ('Brick' and 'Looper' are awesome, BTW).

You're angry about his 'undeserved wealth and fame'? Why don't you try to become a filmmaker so we can see how someone who deserves his wealth and fame actually looks like, instead of whining on a freakin' forum?

This pure hatred directed at human beings for not making the movie you were dreaming of is the problem with today's fandom.

Frankly, I love comic books and movies, etc., but I would never call myself a nerd or a geek. I'd be ashamed to. Because of people who go to such ridiculous lenghts to display their hatred.

If that's what fandom is about, nerds deserve to be depicted as sad, pathetic losers who live in their mother's basement. Time to grow up and express passion in healthier ways.

 

[Bayne]

Well they did destroy Star Wars (metaphorically and financially), and run a entire cinematic universe into the ground all while making a fortune. So I do feel that they are being rather thin-skinned.

I assume you have some affection for these various franchises, given the nature of this forum.

But let's see if JJ Abrams can right the ship, at least financially.

TLJ is the 11th highest grossing movie of all time and the 8th highest grossing domestic with very positive reviews from Metacritic, imdb, Cinemascore and the RT critics. In other words, five out of the six standard metrics of audience reception say that movie was a smashing success, ******** fan entitlement notwithstanding. The idea that SW has been ruined in any way outside your own personal fantasies is moronic.

 

[Ozbridge]

I've only read comments on this page so I probably don't get the full picture but asking "Why am I supposed to feel sorry for the white male millionaire just because he received some death threats on Twitter (after making a downright horrible movie, that's fact because I think so)?" is like asking "Why do I need to listen to the millionaire actress saying she's paid way less than her male equivalents she's already a millionaire?"

Things like that just make me feel even more sorry for Rian Johnson, despite him being a straight white man 100 times richer than me.

 

[Spider-Fan]

What, I am supposed to feel sorry for millionaires who can't handle a bunch of nerds *****ing online?

Everyone is acting like teenagers. But at the end of the day the only thing the nerds have is nostalgia, while the "offended" party has millions for downright terrible movies.

Also if Rian Johnson is top talent, what is bottom shelf? I mean, I thought JJ Abrams was a visionless hack. The man is ****ing Kubrick next to Johnson.

Maybe I wouldn't be so critical if I they didn't put out such complete ****. They brought Star Wars and the entire DC Universe to its knees.

Dude, it is just a movie. Nothing gives anyone the right to harass people for a freaking movie. If the movie "offends" you, then don't watch it. No one is forcing you to go out and see the Disney Star Wars films. You can ignore them and sink into your old EU books or whatever. But saying people have the right to be morons and threaten a guy over a movie he made is ludicrous. It's a movie. If you can't handle what he did with a MOVIE, then you need to learn what REAL problems are.

In other words, people need to grow up.

 

[samsnee]

Even putting Rian aside, what about the actress who played Rose? She certainly didn’t sign up for the level of hate and vitriol directed at her social media accounts. I didn’t like her character but she’s an actress. She didn’t write the conceive of or write the character. I highly doubt she was paid millions for the role.

People deserve to be treated with respect, even when you disagree.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Agreed. Just because a director or actor has money doesn't give you the right to be a moron. Harassment is harassment, and the people I have no sympathy for is the people harassing these creators. They earned ever bit of their obviously miserable lives.

 

[CaptainWagner]

What, I am supposed to feel sorry for millionaires who can't handle a bunch of nerds *****ing online?

Everyone is acting like teenagers. But at the end of the day the only thing the nerds have is nostalgia, while the "offended" party has millions for downright terrible movies.

Also if Rian Johnson is top talent, what is bottom shelf? I mean, I thought JJ Abrams was a visionless hack. The man is ****ing Kubrick next to Johnson.

Maybe I wouldn't be so critical if I they didn't put out such complete ****. They brought Star Wars and the entire DC Universe to its knees.

Maybe if you stopped confusing quality with pandering to your petty demands then things would make more sense. The nostalgia your corner of the fanbase clings to has become toxic. It's "the only thing you have" because you refuse to accept anything new. And behavior EXACTLY LIKE THIS is driving away talent and making the whole fanbase look bad. I'm a lifelong fan and aspiring filmmaker, and even I would hesitate to direct a Star Wars movie knowing the type of insanity each new film stirs up.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I would absolutely make a Star Wars film if offered. I just would never interact with them on social media. Ever. I don't need that trash in my life.

 

[Ozbridge]

No I don't readily have a story about a specific talent being scared away by toxic fandom (unless you believe Grace Randolph's story about Bob Iger wanting to fire Kathleen Kennedy and offering her position to JJ Abrams but he refused). But just by using common sense alone I'm sure vitriol fans will make actors/ directors/ writers hesitate to sign on a movie, if not outright not doing it in some cases.

I just found one this morning from Christopher McQuarrie (whose discussion with Rian Johnson last weekend probably prompted samsnee to create this thread).

This one:

 

[Spider-Aziz]

People insulted Rian Johnson for how replies to TLJ hate, but that man makes me laugh -in a good way- in how he often seems to enjoy reacting to people on twitter.


Yeah, toxic fandom is scaring some of them away, but I don't think they need to be scared of tweets expressing unhealthy hate toward their work.

 

[samsnee]

It's a different generation now. Fans expect to be able to interact directly with directors and actors. The mystery of just seeing what's on screen and ending it there is gone.

 

[Spider-Fan]

It's a different generation now. Fans expect to be able to interact directly with directors and actors. The mystery of just seeing what's on screen and ending it there is gone.

They think they're interacting directly with these people, but they're not. They're hiding like cowards behind a computer and saying things that if presented the chance to say out in the real world they would never say. None of these idiots would threaten Rian Johnson if they saw him on the street. They would probably just quiver and walk away. They're living out some pathetic fantasy.

 

[writer0327]

Critical mind yes. Critical spirit? That's another kettle of fish. Not everyone is going to agree on all things in films. Nor should they. But you can't just lump everyone into one category either.

When I say everyone, I mean it in a broader sense, the "consensus" if you will. Maybe I'm wrong, but it feels like the consensus of the fandom is they want the studios to handle the beloved franchises a little differently. It seems that they want more of what they have always gotten from that franchise, and of course, there's something to that. Whatever made us like SW in the first place, or Batman in the first place, etc. is certainly what we can reasonably expect to see going forward. However, there are things apparently the consensus of fans don't want, and that is where my question lies. Do fans really want their beloved characters and stories handed over to creative, unique visionaries who may or may not line up with their personal tastes? Do they want creators to challenge the mythos, the rules, the concepts and notions of their favorite IPs?

To me, the fandom has it backwards. If you are going to reboot, re-launch old franchises, then you should expect the creators to do something new with them, because otherwise there is zero point in it and its just a money grab for the studios. Now....I readily admit that TFA was mostly ANH 2.0 in a lot of ways, and I was mostly okay with that, because I felt it was the proper way to relaunch the franchise: nostalgia, reignite the old feeling of SW again. But it seems the consensus of the fandom just wants THAT, and nothing more. They only want new, updated versions of the stuff they already got 40 years ago.