Is FOX good for anything X-Men? I for one think not

[ntcrawler]

Are you serious? Okay, let's say James didn't have a lot of time and leaving the mansion was pointless (better than what we got imo, but nevermind) why was he hardly mentioned after that? why was Logan crying when the professor died, and then they held him a memorial not even caring Scott is dead as well? would that take more of James time?

I read sevrel reviews in which the critics wondered if the way Cyclops was treated was some sort of punishment for James doing SR...

Savages they are (the chars). Scott's depression is seen as more of an annoyance to Xavier, even Logan tries to hint that enough is enough ("maybe we should both move on"???). Then when he dies, the only person who seems to notice or mention it is Logan. The fact that Xavier gets a memorial but Scott does not or even a mention ("We lost Xavier, did Scott die too??") shows how deep the love and bonds go at this alternate version of the school.

Scott was forgotten the moment Logan heard that Storm found Jean. Even Jean didn't remember Scott. And did they try looking for him? Nope. I sure am glad I'm not the one being rescued by these people! Bishop2 was right in his sequel story. You need someone like Havoc to step in, and knock some sense into these people and slap them around. "WHERE THE HELL IS MY BROTHER?" is right!

And of course to add insult to injury, we are led to believe that it was Jean who did him in. I'd say that's punishment and ineed the worst of intentions. Case closed.

 

[thegameq]

Fox is business first art second.

That said Marvel really needs to do their homework before they hand this extremely precious franchise over to anyone else--if they ever get the rights back--and I have a feeling they wont for a long time now that Fox knows they have a cash cow they can extend in different ways.

Make no mistake, the X-franchise is IMO the most difficult comicbook to bring to life on film, but that doesn't mean it can't be done at all. The X-franchise requires true artistic vision worthy of the comicbook and a LOTR sized commitment. I truely beilieve that this is the only way fans will ever see a real X-franchise....Otherwise, we'll continue to get half-assed, watered, dumbed-down type of films that usually plague comicbookd films. Indeed, that usually plague the scifi-fantasy film genre in general.

My heart aches to think that I waited all these years for sfx to advance to the point where comicbook films can truely and faithfully be done. To finally see my childhood heroes on screen.......only to see them bastardized to the point where their practically XINO.

How could Columbia and the SM franchise get so much right and the X-franchise so much wrong? Did Marvel even question Fox at all, or did they just let Fox have free reign with their characters?

 

[Celestial]

How could Columbia and the SM franchise get so much right and the X-franchise so much wrong? Did Marvel even question Fox at all, or did they just let Fox have free reign with their characters?

In the late 90s, Marvel was in a very poor financial position (nearly bankrupt?) and comic-book movies were out of fashion. So they had little to bargain with. By the time they were negotiating with Columbia, they were stronger, at least partly due to the success of X-Men.

I don't see SM as being right and X-Men as wrong, though. SM2 had some good sequences but was dragged down by the turgid romance.

 

[flavio_lebeau]

the x-men concept is perfect for me, they just need to get a good script again and make an actual team-driven story, instead of focus on Logan once more.
But i love the style, the certain darkness and seriousness that the trilogy brought. Spandex works good for Spiderman, because he isnt to be taken so seriously, andhe is only one. But bright colors and spandex and lightness wont work in the x-men world, imho. I even think its too "funny" sometimes, i would like an even more serious version of Bryan's world, just taking out all the "Nsync","im smarter than you" and "look i can be sarcastic and cool" jokes...

 

[ntcrawler]

the x-men concept is perfect for me, they just need to get a good script again and make an actual team-driven story, instead of focus on Logan once more.

A brilliant idea!

But i love the style, the certain darkness and seriousness that the trilogy brought. Spandex works good for Spiderman, because he isnt to be taken so seriously, andhe is only one. But bright colors and spandex and lightness wont work in the x-men world, imho. I even think its too "funny" sometimes, i would like an even more serious version of Bryan's world, just taking out all the "Nsync","im smarter than you" and "look i can be sarcastic and cool" jokes...

And I couldn't agree more! I love the movieverse. I love how things were brought into a realistic context that we can associate with. Characters, and a setting that we can realily identify with and relate to, the only thing being "out of this world" are their powers, but still toned down just enough that the setting doesn't become a battle in the streets with superheroes who fly around, save cats from trees, and fight evil monsters. It was on the right track and had alot of potential and to me it's silly to try and run it into a dead end after only 3 movies. The chars worked hard for years to get to where they are and within a year's time it all falls apart. not fair. That's why at least for now I have faith in fanfiction. There have already been a large numbers of work written in the movieverse, including several full-length novels. Missing scenes, alternate renditions of the movies, prequels and sequels. More than enough to fuel our imaginations and keep expanding on this potentially interesting universe.

 

[flavio_lebeau]

yeah, i've been reading some fanfictions too, besides creating my own.

 

[thegameq]

the x-men concept is perfect for me, they just need to get a good script again and make an actual team-driven story, instead of focus on Logan once more.
But i love the style, the certain darkness and seriousness that the trilogy brought. Spandex works good for Spiderman, because he isnt to be taken so seriously, andhe is only one. But bright colors and spandex and lightness wont work in the x-men world, imho. I even think its too "funny" sometimes, i would like an even more serious version of Bryan's world, just taking out all the "Nsync","im smarter than you" and "look i can be sarcastic and cool" jokes...

Jesus!! For the love of God people! Expand your artistic vision beyond images of the Power Rangers. If you've been reading comics for a long time you must have some sort of artistic vision....don't you...? Use your God given imagination. The same way Jackson's vision took the LOTR out of the typical dragons and King Arthur cliches we're used to seeing from the sword and sorcery genre, we could see the same thing from an X-film. The same way Raimi's vision is beyond the Power Rangers, the X-franchise can be done the same way. It will take true artistic vision and commitment to bring the real X-men to life. Sadly, I think there are only a handful of directors with that kind of vision and taking on a project with ridiculously high expectations from fans is something they may not want to bother with. In fact I think I remember reading on the SHH boards somewhere that one well known fantasy director said he wouldn't because of unreasonably high expectations.

Artistic Vision!!!!!

 

[danoyse]

Like it or not, Fox is a movie studio, they are a business, and their business is making money. The release date for X-Men: The Last Stand was not negotiable, for many reasons, and it wasn't a petty revenge plot at Superman Returns and Bryan Singer. 1st off, that's the first big movie weekend of the summer. That's bigtime numbers right there from people going to see movies now that school's out, and all that other good stuff.

The actors also have certain availability. I mean, we had a hard enough time as it was with actor availability, we already lost Cyclops and Mystique, and had had Rogue in a minimal role thanks to actor availability. You keep pushing a project back, and these actors have other projects they are on that they have commitments to, and you're going to start losing more and more actors and their characters until you can't make the movie anymore.

There's also the fact that you can't wait too long after the previous movie to make a sequel, or else the audience will lose interest. Especially in this day in age where we have movie series' like Lord of the Rings, The Matrix, Kill Bill, and now Pirates of the Caribean where the movies are being filmed together or closely together and being released within a year of each other (6 months in the case of the last 2 Matrix movies...)

The May 26th release date was non-negotiable, and I don't blame Fox for sticking to it. I disagree with people who are upset with Fox over the release date issue. And you know what, even more in defense of Fox, when you're an employee, and being paid by someone to do a job for you... sometimes you have to take it upon yourself to meet THEIR deadline, and not expect them to give you more time. Deadlines are set for a reason, and if you can't meet that deadline, then maybe you're not the right person for the job.

Agreed. Fox had set May 2006 for X3 before Bryan Singer left the project. The only concession they made was to move it to Memorial Day weekend instead of the first weekend in May, which was the original release date.

I think the concern was more with the distance between X3 and POTC2. It just made a better gossip story for people to think they wanted to trounce Superman Returns.

It was the same thing with the Cyclops situation...I only started reading rumors that Cyclops was either being killed off or left out of X3 after he took the role in Superman, but that was on the gossip sites and the news that Fox did keep Shawn Ashmore and Hugh Laurie from roles in SR because they were contracted to Fox. Rumors circulated for awhile that Famke and Hugh were both going to have cameos in SR. Who can really say what was true on that front?

Availablity is a huge issue. The reason a lot of movie sequels are made back-to-back now are because they don't have to worry about re-assembling the cast (outside of pickups) or rebuilding sets. The "Harry Potter" sequels are made at lightning speed because the cast will outgrow their roles if they don't. The 6th film already has a release date, and they haven't even finished filming the 5th.

The X-Men movies have a massive cast. It's not like making sure they get Tobey Maguire back as Spiderman, or Christian Bale back as Batman, then working on the supporting roles. X-Men has nearly a dozen lead characters--and in this case actors whose stars have grown since whatever deal they made for the first two movies. And even if they're not more famous, these movies have made a fortune, which puts everything in negotiation hell.

Fox's major screwup was not getting everyone signed for a third (or further) sequels as soon as X2 had that $87 million opening weekend. Nobody was signed for a third movie and they moved on to other projects. No actor is going to sit around and wait for them to get their act in gear--they need to work.

I still think they shouldn't have ended X2 on such a cliffhanger when no one was firmly committed to an X3.

I don't think Fox's mission was to screw the franchise. I think they fell asleep at the wheel and were left scrambling to catch up. And it worked for them--they dodged a bullet and made a successful film.

And who's to say any studio, under the same circumstances, would have done any better?

 

[flavio_lebeau]

Jesus!! For the love of God people! Expand your artistic vision beyond images of the Power Rangers. If you've been reading comics for a long time you must have some sort of artistic vision....don't you...? Use your God given imagination. The same way Jackson's vision took the LOTR out of the typical dragons and King Arthur cliches we're used to seeing from the sword and sorcery genre, we could see the same thing from an X-film. The same way Raimi's vision is beyond the Power Rangers, the X-franchise can be done the same way. It will take true artistic vision and commitment to bring the real X-men to life. Sadly, I think there are only a handful of directors with that kind of vision and taking on a project with ridiculously high expectations from fans is something they may not want to bother with. In fact I think I remember reading on the SHH boards somewhere that one well known fantasy director said he wouldn't because of unreasonably high expectations.

Artistic Vision!!!!!

can you explain to me why having the X-men in their original uniforms and visiting alien ships is more "artistic" than having them in black leather and making a reference to real world problems? To me, it takes even more artistic view and creativity to portray them as we saw, basing them in grounded world. I dont want a simple copy of the comics moving in a screen. I dont want a otherworldy team of superheroes, leave this to comics and cartoons.
i wont see it in "artitisc view" simply because i think it is already a good style, no matter how good they are portrayed like in the comics.

Comics and cinema are different medias, and i like X-men the way the are in the movies.
To each his own, stay with your opinions, i'll stay with mine.

 

[jrd550]

Fox is a talentless ****e - not even good for the old cheap trick.

 

[Jan Irisi]

I don't think Fox's mission was to screw the franchise. I think they fell asleep at the wheel and were left scrambling to catch up. And it worked for them--they dodged a bullet and made a successful film.

And who's to say any studio, under the same circumstances, would have done any better?

I honestly believe they (FOX) believed everything was moving forward swimingly with Singer before he left. I honestly believe they assumed Singer would remain on and that there would be no problem, which is why there was really no sense of urgency regarding signing him, and no sense of urgency in getting preproduction going, as at that point they still had many months ahead of them. Singer repeatedly said he and other writers were working on drafts and had ideas how to procede, and on top of that he had offices on the FOX lot.

Now, it was probably not a good move on FOX's part to dilly dally signing the guy, and they should be kicked upside the arse for that, but as I mentioned above, I firmly believe that FOX assumed that Singer would remain and direct the third film. When Singer left, I believe FOX was blindsided and then, as you said, were left scrambling.

What is it they say about assuming?

 

[gambitfire]

Thanks, Nell, for bringing some sense to the argument.

Before demonising Fox, take a look at the state of the other studios. Apart from Spider-Man, Sony is in a mess. Disney are cutting back on jobs and projects despite the success of PotC2. Paramount is short of funds and has the mess with Tom Cruise. Warner Bros has had a series of big budget, underperforming movies this summer.

I think ppl are missing the bigger picture. FOX is about buisness yes but i can't help it notice that they will do w/e it takes to make that extra buck.

Other studios don't have a choice Disney did good in POTC2 YEA SO?! doesn't mean their back in buisness because of the success of 1 movie. They havn't been having a good couple of years recently(and last time i checked the cut backs where not that serious). Paramount either isn't doing that great doesn't, make them the devil for cutting back(no comment on the Cruise dilemma). Warner Bros. just suffered a loss with SR which is too bad since i felt they had such a quality movie on their hands.

FOX on the other hand does ok for themselves they don't mind slaughtering a good franchise for the sake of quick buck. Which is buisness so therefore i shouldn't be bothered?

Let us not forget during the Bush elections what Network was crying Wolf before everything went down.

FOX is about buisness and just that. Art dies in it's presence and that is where a studio goes really wrong. IMO. But hey w/e get's the quick buck right?


BTW yes i too miss Arrested Development

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I'm not saying you shouldn't be upset, I'm just saying, I'm not going to hate a studio, or the people who work for it, for doing their job.

At the end of the day, I don't care enough to hold a grudge. At the end of the day, these people have done nothing personal to me, and don't deserve my everlasting, undying hatred. At the end of the day, I have my own problems to worry about, my own job, my own family, my own friends, my own problems. I'm not gonna get suckered into hating a movie studio because they made a couple bad creative decisions on a movie.

That's why I'm so sick and tired of this grudge held against Fox. Some of these people around here act like Tom Rothman tied them to a chair, and then raped their mothers and sisters in front of them.

Fox is a business, they want to make money, they do what they can to make money. Okay, so they made a few bad creative decisions, but get over it, it's a movie, and there are some real life problems out there to be so worked up about.

(And no this isn't a rant to stop *****ing and only post if you like the movie... blah blah blah. It's just, stop being so extreme, and stop taking **** so personal. It's not that big of a deal, really)

 

[X-Maniac]

I think ppl are missing the bigger picture. FOX is about buisness yes but i can't help it notice that they will do w/e it takes to make that extra buck.

Other studios don't have a choice Disney did good in POTC2 YEA SO?! doesn't mean their back in buisness because of the success of 1 movie. They havn't been having a good couple of years recently(and last time i checked the cut backs where not that serious). Paramount either isn't doing that great doesn't, make them the devil for cutting back(no comment on the Cruise dilemma). Warner Bros. just suffered a loss with SR which is too bad since i felt they had such a quality movie on their hands.

FOX on the other hand does ok for themselves they don't mind slaughtering a good franchise for the sake of quick buck. Which is buisness so therefore i shouldn't be bothered?

Let us not forget during the Bush elections what Network was crying Wolf before everything went down.

FOX is about buisness and just that. Art dies in it's presence and that is where a studio goes really wrong. IMO. But hey w/e get's the quick buck right?


BTW yes i too miss Arrested Development

Your argument is flawed.

If they wanted a 'quick buck' why are there THREE YEARS between X1 and X2 and between X2 and X3. They aren't acting 'quick' at all.

Yes, the management of this franchise hasn't been exactly ideal, judging from the way we (the fans) see it. But Fox has been anything but quick.

I can understand that they would be unwilling to commit to a trilogy, or even think in trilogy terms, back in 1998/1999 when X1 was in development. That was a very different time. There was no confident superhero movie market. But it all went wrong after X2 came out.

And it's a different time now, as well. I'm not sure it's as confident as it was when Spider-Man came out. X3 has had a mixed reaction from fans, Superman Returns underperformed at the box office.

The decision to try to end the franchise with X3 is understandable, from a business point of view - the cast is getting older (I thought Jackman especially is looking a bit rough round the edges!) and the negotiations to bring back such a large cast must be a nightmare. Patrick Stewart told my media company's showbiz writer he is selling up in Hollywood and moving back to the UK to return to stage work. Maybe that's why the storyline of X3 reached such closures on characters - because they ain't gonna be or don't want to be in any future X-movies... The storyline was dictated by business decisions as much as creativity - the writers said they lost many arguments and simply had to work with what they were given...

Spin-offs focusing on the past allow for other actors to come in to play younger versions or other characters, thus easing the headache of re-signing the X-franchise's vast cast.

A new franchise of X-movies could be done - bringing in some new characters as well as one or two existing ones. The franchise could possibly exist without Wolverine if some other male actor was pushed into the stereotype rugged action hero role that Hollywood demands. Here's a chance for Gambit or Bishop.

 

[gambitfire]

What's wrong with you 2? im not saying i everlasting hate them and that im making it my life goal to bring them down.

Stop making it so overdramatic.

IM JUST SAYING THAT FOX ISN'T GOOD FOR THE X-MEN and i for one would like to see another studio take the rights.

 

[gambitfire]

I'm not saying you shouldn't be upset, I'm just saying, I'm not going to hate a studio, or the people who work for it, for doing their job.

i just want them to do their job with more than a $$ mentality

At the end of the day, I don't care enough to hold a grudge. At the end of the day, these people have done nothing personal to me, and don't deserve my everlasting, undying hatred. At the end of the day, I have my own problems to worry about, my own job, my own family, my own friends, my own problems. I'm not gonna get suckered into hating a movie studio because they made a couple bad creative decisions on a movie.

who's holding a grude? i just don't like the studios approach at the franchise and i don't think it's the best for it. I have my own problems too but i come here for this IT's what the message boards are here for last time i checked. Perhaps you need to stop defending every little aspect of this movie and take your own advise.

That's why I'm so sick and tired of this grudge held against Fox. Some of these people around here act like Tom Rothman tied them to a chair, and then raped their mothers and sisters in front of them.

AGAIN THE MESSAGE BOARDS ARE HERE FOR THIS. and so what if what happened didn't bug you it bothered others.

NOT EVERYONE IS LIKE YOU NOT EVERYONE WILL HANDLE THINGS ALIKE!!
why can't ppl understand this.

Fox is a business, they want to make money, they do what they can to make money. Okay, so they made a few bad creative decisions, but get over it, it's a movie, and there are some real life problems out there to be so worked up about.

Yes and that will make some ppl unhappy which is why some of us are here debating.

(And no this isn't a rant to stop *****ing and only post if you like the movie... blah blah blah. It's just, stop being so extreme, and stop taking **** so personal. It's not that big of a deal, really)

YOUR BEING EXTREME TOO!!

who the hell implied this? >

Some of these people around here act like Tom Rothman tied them to a chair, and then raped their mothers and sisters in front of them.

If anything your making it a bigger deal.

 

[gambitfire]

Your argument is flawed.

Because we don't see things alike?

If they wanted a 'quick buck' why are there THREE YEARS between X1 and X2 and between X2 and X3. They aren't acting 'quick' at all.

gee i dunno because they had other movies in the work that where to be put out and cast memebers who where busy .
What trilogy has had shorter than a year period in between? besides those that where filmed together.

Yes, the management of this franchise hasn't been exactly ideal, judging from the way we (the fans) see it. But Fox has been anything but quick.

Xcept when it came time to compete with SR right?
Some creative decisions that where input by the Studio where not for the quick buck but more for the easy buck which is something i forgot to say instead of quick buck, so sorry for that misunderstanding.

I can understand that they would be unwilling to commit to a trilogy, or even think in trilogy terms, back in 1998/1999 when X1 was in development. That was a very different time. There was no confident superhero movie market. But it all went wrong after X2 came out.

What about StarWars?

And it's a different time now, as well. I'm not sure it's as confident as it was when Spider-Man came out. X3 has had a mixed reaction from fans, Superman Returns underperformed at the box office.


The decision to try to end the franchise with X3 is understandable, from a business point of view - the cast is getting older (I thought Jackman especially is looking a bit rough round the edges!) and the negotiations to bring back such a large cast must be a nightmare. Patrick Stewart told my media company's showbiz writer he is selling up in Hollywood and moving back to the UK to return to stage work. Maybe that's why the storyline of X3 reached such closures on characters - because they ain't gonna be or don't want to be in any future X-movies... The storyline was dictated by business decisions as much as creativity - the writers said they lost many arguments and simply had to work with what they were given...

um i don't care that they end it with X3 but i feel they could of had a better approach to it. Things aren't as one sided as ppl around here put them too be. Im not blaming the writers for anything more than some bad dialogue but even they are proof that there where more buisness decisions over creative ones.

Spin-offs focusing on the past allow for other actors to come in to play younger versions or other characters, thus easing the headache of re-signing the X-franchise's vast cast.

A new franchise of X-movies could be done - bringing in some new characters as well as one or two existing ones. The franchise could possibly exist without Wolverine if some other male actor was pushed into the stereotype rugged action hero role that Hollywood demands. Here's a chance for Gambit or Bishop.

Spin off of a characte that had focus in 3 movies im not too fond of.
I for one wouldn't like Gambit front and center. He isn't the X-Men he's just one of them which is how i feel about it. Alot of character fell in the spotlight of another, and i for one think that was a big no no. I think it can be done so that it's true and satisfying to atleast 80% of the X-Men fanbase. It just wasn't done because FOX had on thing in mind, ppl seem too like this soo let's milk it!

 

[Uncanny]

Fox's major screwup was not getting everyone signed for a third (or further) sequels as soon as X2 had that $87 million opening weekend. Nobody was signed for a third movie and they moved on to other projects. No actor is going to sit around and wait for them to get their act in gear--they need to work.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Gambitfire, I never called you out personally.

You might be expressing your opinion, and explaining why Fox isn't ideal for the X-Men. But the thing is... many people DO hold a grudge because they think that the movie was some kind of anti-Singer & Marsden revenge fest, and that Rothman did everything in his power to ruin the movie.

I'm just explaining why I'm not holding a grudge, and why I think it's childish for people to hold a grudge against a movie studio.

I don't think it's childish to feel that the studio mishandled the product.

I never called you out personally, and I'm not talking about anyone and everyone who has a problem with Fox. I have a problem with Fox over the handling of this movie, because I also feel that politics got too involved.

My complaint is more against the people, as I stated earlier, who act like Fox is the Kingdom of Hell, and Rothman is Satan in the physical flesh, because they are upset with a couple creative decisions made by a business trying to make money.

 

[gambitfire]

Well sorry for "singleling you out"

but i started this thread to make it a point that alot of fans feel that FOX isn't the best studio for the X-Men if ppl hold a grudge against them or blame them for everything that is their problem and bothers me in no way, nor do i see what kind of damage that does to anyone.

Your complaint being about the ppl is somewhat relative to this thread yes, but not what i had in mind when i started it.

I just want to see where ppl stand.

Do ppl feel the X-Men should be moved to another studio or are they happy where it is now?

So i apologize for "calling you out".

but your last post did follow in what seemed like a response to mine and quoted no one elses.