Arrow Is It Time for 'Arrow' to Put Oliver and Felicity Back Together?

[O'Haire]

Is It Time for 'Arrow' to Put Oliver and Felicity Back Together?

 

[Stringendo]

I joined this forum just to say NO NO NO!
I've been watching "Arrow" since S1, and while I figured Oliver would hook up w/ Felicity at some point (because he's sort of a man-ho), their relationship was the most forced, unpleasant storyline to watch. I missed most of S4, but when I'd read the recaps, I never wanted to go back & watch the missed episodes, because of "Olicity".
I also used to like Felicity; she was the somewhat cute but awkward tech-girl sidekick, but once she got w/ Oliver, she became the most whiny, unpleasant individual. I really liked seeing her w/ the Flash guy, and even Ray Palmer, but being w/ Oliver wasn't good for her.
For the love of all that is good about this show, let this storyline go!

 

[Razorback]

I'll admit, I'm not through Season 5 yet. My wife and I just recently started watching the show - we're up through the "Olicity" Breakup (episode 4x16), so still catching up.

I originally started watching this show after a recommendation from a buddy at work who loves the show. It's really good - I felt after watching the first season that I hoped at some point Oliver would go after Felicity in a romantic sense as the two had exceptional on-screen chemistry - she's certainly the girl I'd go after if I was in his shoes. It took quite a while for it to happen, but once it did, I was really happy for both characters (loved episode 4x01 seeing them happy living a "normal" life for a bit).

In a show like this, where the main character is constantly dealing with a lot of darkness and misery in his life, for me, it's hard to watch if that character doesn't have something happy in his life, and for Oliver Queen, that happiness is Felicity Smoak, at least for the context of this show.

So to answer the OP's question - yes. IMO, the best episodes of the show were when they were together and happy because Felicity acts as a "ground" for Oliver to keep things in perspective and balance out all the miserable things happening in his life that he's constantly confronting.

I feel like the writers try a little too hard to inject drama into their relationship. The relationship is not the focus of the show, and it shouldn't be. It's a secondary thing that IMO adds an extra human element for Oliver & Felicity that I really enjoy.

The negative onus that I've felt as I'm working through Season 4 is the aforementioned "try-hard" feeling from the writers to inject unnecessary drama into the relationship which can detract from other parts of the show.

The whole Season 4 breakup was absolutely ludicrous and manufactured to create [bad] drama. The writers likely intended it to create a feeling of "gotta see what happens next with Olicity" with the fanbase, when in reality it just pi$$ed people off because it was so unnecessary and just bad writing. Ultimately, it had an awful effect on viewership, as ratings for the show have been fluctuating on a downward trajectory since the breakup (tvseriesfinale.com for ratings numbers) episode 4x16. From episodes 4x01 thru 4x15, the show averaged 2.7M viewers. From episode 4x16 thru 4x23 (finale) the show averaged 2.2M viewers - that's a huge drop of almost 20% of the viewership after 4x16 - that's just crazy $$ when you talk about a network's advertising dollars for a primetime show.

Season 5 averaged 1.8M viewers across the entire season - this resulted in another drop of an additional 18% after the initial dropoff post 4x16. These numbers indicate clearly that people are not very happy with what the writers have done with the show since episode 4x16.

For me, there really was no need to break them up to begin with - Season 4 was rolling just fine focusing on the battle against Dahrk, but the writers wanted to manufacture relationship drama so they trumped up the whole baby mama drama into something it never needed to be. Even as you watch episode 4x15 when Samantha Clayton explains everything to Felicity, that should've been the end of the drama right there for most reasonable adults, but the writers wanted to keep revving it up and they took it all the way to a silly breakup over something that really isn't that big of a deal (even my wife couldn't believe they wrote Felicity's character to have such a meltdown over the whole thing) and as a result, ratings just keep heading south. Major writing error on their part and as they're going into Season 6, they're still trying to recover from that Season 4 screwup.

I'm going to hang in, and stay the course and catch all the way up through Season 5...then we'll see. If Season 6 continues with bad writing I may have to check out of the show like such a large number of others folks have already done.

Apologies for the long-winded first post. I enjoyed reading the other posts in this thread.

 

[spymommy96]

I haven't enjoyed Season 5 as much as past seasons. The Damian Dark thing in S4 was a little out there for this show as Arrow usually deals with real people or things versus the supernatural. I think that's more for Flash or Supergirl. With that being said, maybe i am just a hopeless romantic but yes! Put Felicity and Oliver back together and leave them there. They can have a relationship and not detract from the show and the other things they are doing. It's all in how you write it. I am enjoying more if the original Felicity in S5. Her one liners and awkwardness has returned.

 

[spymommy96]

Thank you for this b/c i think you said it perfectly. They JUST got together. There was no reason to break them up. That was so stupid that Felicity can walk and walks right out the door.

 

[Razorback]

Thank you for this b/c i think you said it perfectly. They JUST got together. There was no reason to break them up. That was so stupid that Felicity can walk and walks right out the door.

Ya, the timing made it even worse. Oliver had literally just finished recording the video to his son, was clearly in a lot of emotional pain, and Felicity walks in and just nukes him. There were so many things about the breakup and the rest of Season 4 with Felicity that just weren't in any way consistent with the character the writers had built up to that point which made the whole thing just completely absurd and unbelievable.

I just got done watching episode 5x01 where it shows Felicity has a new boyfriend or whatever - I'm just really disappointed with how they've written her character since mid-season 4. At this point for me, it's really easy to see how about a third of the viewership just gave the writers and producers of the show the middle finger and threw in the towel. I'm trying to hang in there, though.

 

[Richard Grayson]

Dear God, I hope not. That relationship was hands down the weakest part of the show. Season 5 canning it for the most part and being the best season so far is very telling

 

[HellYeah]

EEEKKKK!! Put Felicity in a rocket and send it to Mars.

 

[Osiris-Rex]

EEEKKKK!! Put Felicity in a rocket and send it to Mars.

Maybe she and Miss Martian could braid each other's hair. If Miss Martian had hair in the Arrowverse version of her.

 

[thjan]

I'll admit, I'm not through Season 5 yet. My wife and I just recently started watching the show - we're up through the "Olicity" Breakup (episode 4x16), so still catching up.

I'm a fairly recent viewer as well, and have greatly enjoyed all five seasons so far. I'm also a big Oliver and Felicity fan(both together and apart, but prefer them together), and being fairly new to this fandom, I was really surprised at the amount of hate "Olicity" and even just Felicity get from many of the online fans. Yes, like with most relationships on tv(and especially on the CW) there is a lot of unnecessary drama in their relationship, but they are so fun together and have so much chemistry together that it more than makes up for it in my opinion. Anyway, I just wanted to say how glad I was to see your really great post on this thread and seeing that there are still some fans of the Oliver and Felicity relationship out there.

I originally started watching this show after a recommendation from a buddy at work who loves the show. It's really good - I felt after watching the first season that I hoped at some point Oliver would go after Felicity in a romantic sense as the two had exceptional on-screen chemistry - she's certainly the girl I'd go after if I was in his shoes. It took quite a while for it to happen, but once it did, I was really happy for both characters (loved episode 4x01 seeing them happy living a "normal" life for a bit).

Yep, I loved the first episode of season 4 too. I especially enjoyed all the episodes where they were together in season 4. They had some really fun exchanges and it was nice seeing both characters being there for each other.

In a show like this, where the main character is constantly dealing with a lot of darkness and misery in his life, for me, it's hard to watch if that character doesn't have something happy in his life, and for Oliver Queen, that happiness is Felicity Smoak, at least for the context of this show.

Well said. It is always nice to see some light in this show and in Oliver's life. The relationships(not just romantic) are my favorite part of the show.

So to answer the OP's question - yes. IMO, the best episodes of the show were when they were together and happy because Felicity acts as a "ground" for Oliver to keep things in perspective and balance out all the miserable things happening in his life that he's constantly confronting.

Again, well said.

The negative onus that I've felt as I'm working through Season 4 is the aforementioned "try-hard" feeling from the writers to inject unnecessary drama into the relationship which can detract from other parts of the show.

The whole Season 4 breakup was absolutely ludicrous and manufactured to create [bad] drama. The writers likely intended it to create a feeling of "gotta see what happens next with Olicity" with the fanbase, when in reality it just pi$$ed people off because it was so unnecessary and just bad writing.

Yep, they did not do a good job with the break up. It was really forced and seemed to be done solely for the angst. I hate that it seems to have turned so many fans against Felicity and the Oliver/Felicity relationship. I personally don't mind some drama and angst in my fiction as long as it works out in the end, but I know a lot of comic fans absolutely can't stand it.

I'm going to hang in, and stay the course and catch all the way up through Season 5...then we'll see. If Season 6 continues with bad writing I may have to check out of the show like such a large number of others folks have already done.

I'm glad you're sticking with it. Season 5 is really, really good and by the end of the season things are also looking up for "Olicity" fans. Thankfully, the writers seem to be playing the long game with the Oliver and Felicity relationship and are patiently having them work out their issues together. They have some really great interactions throughout the season and have some real development in their relationship towards the end of the season.

Apologies for the long-winded first post. I enjoyed reading the other posts in this thread.

Not long-winded at all. I enjoyed reading it. I wish I could be as articulate as you and many of the other posters on these boards.

 

[Razorback]

@ thjan

Thanks for the kind words -

Yeah my wife and I are around episode 5x12 or so right now. So far this season is really good outside of the stuff going on between Oliver & Felicity. I like the villain a lot and the battle with him so far has been really entertaining with the back and forth (is that Michael Dorn from Star Trek The Next Generation doing Prometheus's voice?)

With Felicity, now that you mention it, I've noticed as I've perused these boards a little more, that people definitely seem to have a more negative attitude toward her character. I don't hate her character at this point, I'm just more disappointed in the writing for her character because since mid-season 4 they just don't have her behaving in a manner consistent with the way she was before that point. The scene that hammered that home for me was when she initially breaks up with Oliver - walking in there after he'd recorded the video for his son when he's clearly emotionally distraught and she drops a bomb on him right there. That is just not something Felicity would've done which is what made the whole thing completely absurd and unbelievable to me. Since that happened, as I'm watching the show there have been NUMEROUS instances where Felicity has been in situations with various people (her mom, team members, her boyfriend, Oliver, etc.) where she's either kept a secret from them, or been "intentionally incomplete" with the truth and every time she does it I can never help but think to myself "wow, you're a really big hypocrite" given her "reasons" for ending it with Oliver.

Obviously since I'm not through Season 5 yet, there may be an "ends to the means" for all of those hypocritical instances with Felicity where she'll sort of "figure it all out" that I haven't seen yet, which is what I'm hoping for. It's frustrating watching her character be so unlikable at times due to bad writing, so definitely holding out hope that the writers can get that part of the show "righted", but I'm finding myself happy when I saw Oliver sleep with the pretty reporter. Not because I want him to have a real relationship with her (she seems shady like she has a bad agenda), but just like to see the dude get some happiness and because of the way Felicity has been behaving, I feel like she doesn't even deserve him at this point.

Can't wait to finish this season, about halfway there.

 

[Syncos]

@ thjan

Thanks for the kind words -

Yeah my wife and I are around episode 5x12 or so right now. So far this season is really good outside of the stuff going on between Oliver & Felicity. I like the villain a lot and the battle with him so far has been really entertaining with the back and forth (is that Michael Dorn from Star Trek The Next Generation doing Prometheus's voice?)

With Felicity, now that you mention it, I've noticed as I've perused these boards a little more, that people definitely seem to have a more negative attitude toward her character. I don't hate her character at this point, I'm just more disappointed in the writing for her character because since mid-season 4 they just don't have her behaving in a manner consistent with the way she was before that point. The scene that hammered that home for me was when she initially breaks up with Oliver - walking in there after he'd recorded the video for his son when he's clearly emotionally distraught and she drops a bomb on him right there. That is just not something Felicity would've done which is what made the whole thing completely absurd and unbelievable to me. Since that happened, as I'm watching the show there have been NUMEROUS instances where Felicity has been in situations with various people (her mom, team members, her boyfriend, Oliver, etc.) where she's either kept a secret from them, or been "intentionally incomplete" with the truth and every time she does it I can never help but think to myself "wow, you're a really big hypocrite" given her "reasons" for ending it with Oliver.

Obviously since I'm not through Season 5 yet, there may be an "ends to the means" for all of those hypocritical instances with Felicity where she'll sort of "figure it all out" that I haven't seen yet, which is what I'm hoping for. It's frustrating watching her character be so unlikable at times due to bad writing, so definitely holding out hope that the writers can get that part of the show "righted", but I'm finding myself happy when I saw Oliver sleep with the pretty reporter. Not because I want him to have a real relationship with her (she seems shady like she has a bad agenda), but just like to see the dude get some happiness and because of the way Felicity has been behaving, I feel like she doesn't even deserve him at this point.

Can't wait to finish this season, about halfway there.

You weren't around at the time, but in seasons 1 and 2 and for the first 3/4 of season 3 there was relatively no hatred for Felicity on these boards. She was charming, and used well. Almost all the hate in the first few seasons was directed at Laurel.

Felicity suffered from becoming TOO popular in the first few seasons because of her light hearted banter and tech solutions. This became too much the forefront of the series. Where every episode was her "Superhacking" a victory, and Oliver not really doing anything.

 

[Razorback]

You weren't around at the time, but in seasons 1 and 2 and for the first 3/4 of season 3 there was relatively no hatred for Felicity on these boards. She was charming, and used well. Almost all the hate in the first few seasons was directed at Laurel.

Felicity suffered from becoming TOO popular in the first few seasons because of her light hearted banter and tech solutions. This became too much the forefront of the series. Where every episode was her "Superhacking" a victory, and Oliver not really doing anything.

Thanks for chiming in -

Season 1 I liked Laurel ok, but Season 2 and 3 Laurel I REALLY disliked. Couldn't stand her character at all so I could see that with other folks feeling similar.

I've really liked Felicity a LOT up until mid-season 4 where it just seems like they've written her character in a very different way. I feel like they've gotten away from the core of what made Felicity so great up until that point and now they've made her into a bit of a hypocrite which has made me start to feel differently about her.

 

[Gintoki]

Heck no. Olicity killed the show in S3/S4. S5 was great because it had less focus on that crap.

Guggenhiem is definitely bringing back Olicity due to his unhealthy obsession. I think it will take Guggie another bad season of olicity backlash to get his and greg berlanti's head straight. If they were smart enough, they would have put an permanent to it after S4.

 

[Razorback]

Heck no. Olicity killed the show in S3/S4. S5 was great because it had less focus on that crap.

Guggenhiem is definitely bringing back Olicity due to his unhealthy obsession. I think it will take Guggie another bad season of olicity backlash to get his and greg berlanti's head straight. If they were smart enough, they would have put an permanent to it after S4.

No offense intended my friend, but the research I did further up the thread indicates ratings have dropped 30-40% since mid-season 4 when Oliver & Felicity broke up. I would think if people were happy about that breakup, ratings would actually increase or stay the same, versus dropping. By the end of Season 5, ~1M less viewers were watching Arrow than they were at the beginning of Season 4.

IMO, they just need to go about it better - don't make it the focus, just make it something that's "there". Unnecessary relationship drama is not needed like they created in Season 4, which killed viewership.

 

[Jedi Arrow]

No offense intended my friend, but the research I did further up the thread indicates ratings have dropped 30-40% since mid-season 4 when Oliver & Felicity broke up. I would think if people were happy about that breakup, ratings would actually increase or stay the same, versus dropping. By the end of Season 5, ~1M less viewers were watching Arrow than they were at the beginning of Season 4.

IMO, they just need to go about it better - don't make it the focus, just make it something that's "there". Unnecessary relationship drama is not needed like they created in Season 4, which killed viewership.

The breakup wasn't the problem, it was the bad writing around the breakup. It was the terrible, contrived drama. It was Felicity's bad attitude. It was, goodness help us, Momma Smoak. And even besides the terrible drama surrounding Olicity, Season 4 was terribly written, for the most part. The breakup itself had little to nothing to do with the drop in viewership; that came from the bad writing. Season 5 had better writing and has regained some goodwill for the show (if not in viewership, then at least in viewers' attitudes toward the show). I would guess that, if S6 continues S5's writing upswing, then we'll see an increase in viewers within a season or so.

 

[Razorback]

The breakup wasn't the problem, it was the bad writing around the breakup. It was the terrible, contrived drama. It was Felicity's bad attitude. It was, goodness help us, Momma Smoak. And even besides the terrible drama surrounding Olicity, Season 4 was terribly written, for the most part. The breakup itself had little to nothing to do with the drop in viewership; that came from the bad writing. Season 5 had better writing and has regained some goodwill for the show (if not in viewership, then at least in viewers' attitudes toward the show). I would guess that, if S6 continues S5's writing upswing, then we'll see an increase in viewers within a season or so.

I'm not all the way through Season 5 yet, but close - maybe 7 or so episodes to go - definitely a well-written storyline that's kept me interested along the way.

I do feel like the breakup itself was a big contributor. I've spoken to some other folks off this board and asked them about the show since I've gotten through Season 4 into Season 5 and they've all mentioned to me that the breakup (along with how it happened, as you also mentioned) was just so ridiculously overdramatic and forced, as well as inconsistent with Felicity's character to that point that it just turned a lot of people off to the show.

Hopefully S6 will have a well-written storyline.

 

[Gintoki]

No offense intended my friend, but the research I did further up the thread indicates ratings have dropped 30-40% since mid-season 4 when Oliver & Felicity broke up. I would think if people were happy about that breakup, ratings would actually increase or stay the same, versus dropping. By the end of Season 5, ~1M less viewers were watching Arrow than they were at the beginning of Season 4.

IMO, they just need to go about it better - don't make it the focus, just make it something that's "there". Unnecessary relationship drama is not needed like they created in Season 4, which killed viewership.

If you actually think just breaking up a fictional 'relationship' caused the show ratings to drop......just stop. You don't know how ratings work at all, no offense.

Despite how much Guggenheim is obsessed with Olicity, even he finds the theory of 'no olicity = no ratings' ridiculous. He said it time and time again.

 

[fire117]

I think season 5 was bad due to the lack of Olicity in my opinion. I'd like to see them back together in season 6 as a 'screw you' to Olicity haters.

 

[Gintoki]

I think season 5 was bad due to the lack of Olicity in my opinion. I'd like to see them back together in season 6 as a 'screw you' to Olicity haters.

I think you should stick to soap-opera shows, since Arrow is a superhero one.

 

[Osiris-Rex]

I think you should stick to soap-opera shows, since Arrow is a superhero one.

So a superhero show on TV should in no way resemble superhero comic books. (If you don't think comic books are soap operas, read Rebirth Batman #24)

 

[Gintoki]

So a superhero show on TV should in no way resemble superhero comic books. (If you don't think comic books are soap operas, read Rebirth Batman #24)

There's a difference between a superhero show with soap-opera elements and a soap-opera show with superhero elements.

What was Arrow in Season 4? (Hint Hint the latter)

 

[thjan]

Yeah my wife and I are around episode 5x12 or so right now. So far this season is really good outside of the stuff going on between Oliver & Felicity. I like the villain a lot and the battle with him so far has been really entertaining with the back and forth (is that Michael Dorn from Star Trek The Next Generation doing Prometheus's voice?)

Glad you're enjoying the season too. And you've probably looked it up by now, but yeah Michael Dorn did do the voice for Prometheus. Pretty cool.

With Felicity, now that you mention it, I've noticed as I've perused these boards a little more, that people definitely seem to have a more negative attitude toward her character. I don't hate her character at this point, I'm just more disappointed in the writing for her character because since mid-season 4 they just don't have her behaving in a manner consistent with the way she was before that point. The scene that hammered that home for me was when she initially breaks up with Oliver - walking in there after he'd recorded the video for his son when he's clearly emotionally distraught and she drops a bomb on him right there. That is just not something Felicity would've done which is what made the whole thing completely absurd and unbelievable to me. Since that happened, as I'm watching the show there have been NUMEROUS instances where Felicity has been in situations with various people (her mom, team members, her boyfriend, Oliver, etc.) where she's either kept a secret from them, or been "intentionally incomplete" with the truth and every time she does it I can never help but think to myself "wow, you're a really big hypocrite" given her "reasons" for ending it with Oliver.

Yeah, the break up episode and her reasons for the break up bothered me too, but it just didn't get to me like it has other people for some reason. I still enjoyed Felicity in the following episodes of season 4 and I've loved her in season 5. As far as her being a bit of a hypocrite, I agree. She's far from the only one in the show to be a hypocrite though, and I think you can know that your a hypocrite and still not be able to help how you feel if that makes any sense. Through out this season I think she starts to see where Oliver was coming from in his decisions though. Especially later in the season when she has to face some of her own hypocrisy.

Obviously since I'm not through Season 5 yet, there may be an "ends to the means" for all of those hypocritical instances with Felicity where she'll sort of "figure it all out" that I haven't seen yet, which is what I'm hoping for. It's frustrating watching her character be so unlikable at times due to bad writing, so definitely holding out hope that the writers can get that part of the show "righted", but I'm finding myself happy when I saw Oliver sleep with the pretty reporter. Not because I want him to have a real relationship with her (she seems shady like she has a bad agenda), but just like to see the dude get some happiness and because of the way Felicity has been behaving, I feel like she doesn't even deserve him at this point.

I'm of the opinion that they "right" the Oliver and Felicity relationship by the end of the season, but then again I'm also not as hard on Felicity as so many other people seem to be. As I said above, I think she starts to see where Oliver is coming from a little more by the end of the season.

Season 1 I liked Laurel ok, but Season 2 and 3 Laurel I REALLY disliked. Couldn't stand her character at all so I could see that with other folks feeling similar.

I liked Laurel in all four seasons, but only when she wasn't in costume as the Black Canary. I just never bought her being capable of being a vigilante. I know she had training from Grant, Nyssa, and Diggle, but she just never pulled it off for me personally. I still enjoyed her scenes outside of being a vigilante and when she interacted with people though and was sad to see her go. I am not a fan of the Earth-2 Laurel, Black Siren, at all though. I'd be fine if we never saw her again. It boggles my mind that there are some fans out there that want Oliver to be in a relationship with her. She's messed up and they have absolutely no history together.

If you actually think just breaking up a fictional 'relationship' caused the show ratings to drop......just stop. You don't know how ratings work at all, no offense.

Despite how much Guggenheim is obsessed with Olicity, even he finds the theory of 'no olicity = no ratings' ridiculous. He said it time and time again.

I tend to agree with you and Jedi Arrow that the break up was not the main reason for the drop in ratings. Like Jedi Arrow, I think it was more because of the drop in quality in writing in almost all respects of the show. I still enjoyed the character interactions through all of the season, but I thought this season's flash backs were the weakest of all the 5 five seasons, the villains were really over the top and mostly poorly written, and all the super sappy hope and inspiring people stuff were overdone in my opinion. I think the break up and the poor handling of it probably had some effect on the ratings, but all the other stuff contributed a lot to it as well.

I think season 5 was bad due to the lack of Olicity in my opinion. I'd like to see them back together in season 6 as a 'screw you' to Olicity haters.

I think season 5 is fantastic and I think we still get plenty of Olicity in it as well. They may be separated and with other people for most of it, but if you don't think they they had a lot of meaningful moments and were continually being shown as meant for each other through out the season, then we just have a different view of the season. I think the writers have been patiently rebuilding their relationship throughout this season.

As for the 'screw you' to Olicity haters, I don't think there is any need for that. Goodness knows we've all had to deal with relationships that we didn't like in our entertainment. Besides if they do get together again and are not written with constant drama, but are given a mostly stable relationship like Lyla and Diggle, then I think a lot of fans will be won back or at least tolerate the relationship.

There's a difference between a superhero show with soap-opera elements and a soap-opera show with superhero elements.

What was Arrow in Season 4? (Hint Hint the latter)

I don't know about all that. I think Arrow as had a pretty healthy and even mix of soap-opera and superhero elements in all 5 seasons. The early seasons may have had less of the romantic relationship drama in favor of family drama, but even they were heavily focused on the often meladramatic relationships between all the characters.

 

[Razorback]

If you actually think just breaking up a fictional 'relationship' caused the show ratings to drop......just stop. You don't know how ratings work at all, no offense.

Despite how much Guggenheim is obsessed with Olicity, even he finds the theory of 'no olicity = no ratings' ridiculous. He said it time and time again.

The data is what the data is. There's a reason 30-40% of the viewership began checking out of the show at that point in Season 4 and continued through the end of Season 5 - now I am not saying that that had to be the ONLY reason - but IMO it sure had a good bit to do with it, especially when you consider that Season 5 was really good, and many viewers seem to feel that way, yet ratings have stayed down, so if, as you say, it had nothing to do with the Olicity stuff, then I don't think it's unreasonable to think that many would come back sometime during Season 5 since it had such good feedback, but they haven't, viewership has stayed down and actually finished Season 5 on a continuing decline.

I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on this data, and what you think the cause for the ratings drop is, and why you don't think people tuned back in sometime during Season 5 when it had such good review.

My hope is with the strong Season 5 and the writers trying to fix some things from Season 4 by the end of Season 5, that viewership will be on the rise next season. Time will tell.

 

[Syncos]

The data is what the data is. There's a reason 30-40% of the viewership began checking out of the show at that point in Season 4 and continued through the end of Season 5 - now I am not saying that that had to be the ONLY reason - but IMO it sure had a good bit to do with it, especially when you consider that Season 5 was really good, and many viewers seem to feel that way, yet ratings have stayed down, so if, as you say, it had nothing to do with the Olicity stuff, then I don't think it's unreasonable to think that many would come back sometime during Season 5 since it had such good feedback, but they haven't, viewership has stayed down and actually finished Season 5 on a continuing decline.

I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on this data, and what you think the cause for the ratings drop is, and why you don't think people tuned back in sometime during Season 5 when it had such good review.

My hope is with the strong Season 5 and the writers trying to fix some things from Season 4 by the end of Season 5, that viewership will be on the rise next season. Time will tell.

I would say the writing being awful has a lot more to do with a loss of viewers than olicity. I could argue that all the fans dropped off because they killed Laurel. The show seemingly does all they can to isolate and eliminate every subgroup of fans.

After all, you're talking about a season where they spent more time on Felicity's mother, than key characters in the story.