Is there something wrong with the Snyderverse?

[seriesofdreams]

With SS, its the characters. The characters save the movie and make it enjoyable enough to warrant a rewatch.

Harley Quinn & Will Smith? The rest of the lot were throwaways save for maybe Diablo. Katana kind of just...showed up, Croc threw something and Boomerang had an accent and lived up to his name by throwing few useless boomerangs.

The second half of the movie was boring and neither Harley Quinn or Deadshot (Will Smith, same person) could save the rest of the movie from faceless mud monsters that came out of nowhere and an antagonist with less personality or menace than The Destroyer. There could have been something there with Harley and Joker but it seemed like that should be a whole different movie altogether.

The characters were nothing to write home about. I cannot see why this movie has rewatch value when it's just dull aside from Viola Davis who has the stand-out performance. That may just be my opinion, but hopefully a director's cut is released that somewhat redeems the quality of this film.

 

[Timebomb]

Here's the thing though, yes these movies have a built in fanbase but if theres nothing to latch onto, then, fans or not, the movies will tank. I think, as polarizing as these 3 DCEU films are, there is still a significant amount of fans and people who find something to latch onto and enjoy out of them hence their commendable box office.

For example. Look at Green Lantern. That movie had a MASSIVE marketing campaign and the movie TANKED. Absolute financial failure. And i think thats because that movie just had NOTHING for fans to latch on to. I feel like I hear some people who didnt like BvS say "i hated BvS...but DAMN that warehouse fight scene was the best batman sequence ever, and Wonder Woman was awesome, I'd rewatch the movie just to see those parts again." GL had nothing like that, nothing remarkable or standout where you could say "yeah GL sucked, but that 3rd act set piece with Paralax was visually impressive." There was nothing in that movie that made you want to rewatch it.

With SS, its the characters. The characters save the movie and make it enjoyable enough to warrant a rewatch.

I see what you are saying and you might be right. You make a good point. But shouldn't that be another reason to not support these films? Moments are great but I want the whole experience. Having to sit through an hour and a half of mediocre to see moments is not something to be supported.

 

[kguillou]

I see what you are saying and you might be right. You make a good point. But shouldn't that be another reason to not support these films? Moments are great but I want the whole experience. Having to sit through an hour and a half of mediocre to see moments is not something to be supported.

Absolutely agreed, bro. I want a whole fulfilling experience, I was just trying to articulate that I think a big part of the reason these DCEU films are so divisive is because, whether you like them or hate them, these movies have moments of greatness or coolness where even if you didn't like the film, you may think to yourself "I did not enjoy this movie....but that one action sequence was really well done...maybe I should give it another shot...maybe I'll enjoy it more the second time." Like Matrix Reloaded, that movie is nonsensical trash...but HOLEEE CRAP it had some of the most awe inducing action sequences I've ever seen, even to this day. I could pop on that movie and fast forward to the Agent Smith fight and the Highway chase set pieces over and over.

A movie like GL, lets face it, fans were pretty much collectively agreed it was just a sad, pathetic film. There wasn't even a standout action sequence that made you even think about seeing it again. We all walked out of that theater thinking "well, that was a waste of 2 hours, when's Captain America coming out again?" And that movie's BO proves it.

Further reinforcing my point, I've seen a lot of posts on this forum, from people who did not like the movie, who have seen the movie 2-3 times and pretty much said "This movie was a mess, but I really enjoyed Will Smith and Margot Robie" and I think that factor leaves a subliminal effect in our minds that almost compels us to revisit the film because we found that one really good aspect about the movie to latch on to.

 

[Timebomb]

Absolutely agreed, bro. I want a whole fulfilling experience, I was just trying to articulate that I think a big part of the reason these DCEU films are so divisive is because, whether you like them or hate them, these movies have moments of greatness or coolness where even if you didn't like the film, you may think to yourself "I did not enjoy this movie....but that one action sequence was really well done...maybe I should give it another shot...maybe I'll enjoy it more the second time." A movie like GL, lets face it, fans were pretty much collectively agreed it was just a sad, pathetic film. There wasn't even a standout action sequence that made you even think about seeing it again. We all walked out of that theater thinking "well, that was a waste of 2 hours, when's Captain America coming out again?" And that movie's BO proves it.

Further reinforcing my point, I've seen a lot of posts on this forum, from people who did not like the movie, who have seen the movie 2-3 times and pretty much said "This movie was a mess, but I really enjoyed Will Smith and Margot Robie" and I think that factor leaves a subliminal effect in our minds that almost compels us to revisit the film because we found that one really good aspect about the movie to latch on to.

The more I think about it the more right I think you are. Especially about GL. I just think that by going back again and again for these good aspects sends the studio the wrong message. I want that great DCEU movie and we won't get it if we support movies that have been butchered like SS. Even though there are some great performances in it. Imagine what we could have gotten.

 

[King23DC]

Who would you cast as Selina?I have no idea at all

Jessica Biehl. Gorgeous. Curvy. Physically capable. Underrated actress, see "Tall Man". Age wise I think she'd match up fine with Affleck's Batman.

 

[King23DC]

The thing is, Nolan's movies were BARELY superhero films. For the most part, you could have swapped Batman out for any generic hero and it wouldn't have made a difference.

Uh, what?

Saying that is vaguely applicable to any concept. But in reality it's moronic.

Nolan's films are pure Batman. No, they're not pure superhero movie, because obviously they strive for more. And being Nolan is one of the greats, he achieves it. And it's not run of the mill, cookie cutter crap we've seen from DC, Marvel and Fox.

 

[JKKS085]

Green Lantern is not in the same league as the likes of Batman, Superman, Joker etc when it comes to fan base and audience built in recognition. The awful Amazing Spider-Man movies made "commendable" box office, Spider-Man 3 made more than the beloved Spider-Man 2, Batman Forever made more than Batman Returns, X-Men The Last Stand made more than X-Men 2 etc etc.

Saying fans find something to latch onto so it makes money isn't a compliment to the movies overall being such let downs.

And that is setting aside the fact that all DCEU movies open big at the box office and then drop like stones covered with lead which shows that aside from a devoted fanbase that shows up in droves during opening week ends those movies are not being embraced by the general audience.

 

[metaphysician]

A friend of mine describes the WB marketing department as "probably making summoning circles of booze and cigarettes to call the spirit of Don Draper". Its a funny image, and really speaks the truth: its the marketing department that is doing the gold star work here, not the movie makers themselves.

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

Blind fans? To you people who enjoy these movies are blind? Why? Just because you decided so? Just because in your head, the fact that a movie might displease 35% of the audience it means it is bad? Maybe we could say the same about those who didn't like it. Maybe the blind ones are those. What do you say? All things considered, they're still the minority.

Quoted For Truth
I suppose no one wanted to address your posts and that maybe just maybe the majority of audiences like these movies.

 

[Limonade]

A friend of mine describes the WB marketing department as "probably making summoning circles of booze and cigarettes to call the spirit of Don Draper". Its a funny image, and really speaks the truth: its the marketing department that is doing the gold star work here, not the movie makers themselves.

Yeah if anything else, they deserve a double raise. If not... they can make their case and threaten to move to Disney or Fox!

 

[Marvin]

Yeah if anything else, they deserve a double raise. If not... they can make their case and threaten to move to Disney or Fox!

I wouldn't think the bvs team would get so much praise after the long road of criticism they received from detractors leading up to the movie. The peak of which being the doomsday trailer. To this day people say the whole marketing into the warehouse fight gave the whole movie away, now talks of a raise. Meanwhile civil war's campaign right up to that spiderman reveal nothing but praise.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

What went wrong is it is Snyder universe lol. He terrible director and not able to do make good movies. He not understand characters or able to tell proper story. He not understand comic material he say he read. Suicide Squad bad too because WB edit it so badly and David Ayer make most characters in it pointless.

Dceu need to be reboot. Three bad movies is enough. Justice league will be bad to because of Snyder. Wonder Woman is 50/50 chance.

 

[Limonade]

I wouldn't think the bvs team would get so much praise after the long road of criticism they received from detractors leading up to the movie. The peak of which being the doomsday trailer. To this day people say the whole marketing into the warehouse fight gave the whole movie away, now talks of a raise. Meanwhile civil war's campaign right up to that spiderman reveal nothing but praise.

Yeah. If anything the WB marketing department learned from their mistakes quickly and got the pulse from general audiences. Then fired whoever they had to fire and make quick course corrections to suicide squad. All this with WB's strategy in the movie's release. It's quite a feat.

As for Spidey, his arrival to Civil War was well known with Sony's partnership with Marvel. His reveal in the trailer wasn't integral to the storyline.

Whereas, we only speculated about Doomsday. His reveal in the trailer was integral to the storyline. Which then led to discussions of a possible Death of Superman storyline even before the movie's release.

Not the same.

 

[idiot09]

I wouldn't think the bvs team would get so much praise after the long road of criticism they received from detractors leading up to the movie. The peak of which being the doomsday trailer. To this day people say the whole marketing into the warehouse fight gave the whole movie away, now talks of a raise. Meanwhile civil war's campaign right up to that spiderman reveal nothing but praise.

I remember this.Reddit went into a collective meltdown after BvS trailer #2 for spoiling doomsday.Thread after thread about how trailers ruin movies with people saying "Now that I know whats going to happen in the movie,I wont see it" etc.This ended in the final trailer,where they in order to over-compensate showed a lot of the warehouse sequence.The BvS marketing was v.good but had a MAJOR hiccup.SS marketing was near flawless though.

 

[Marvin]

Yeah. If anything the WB marketing department learned from their mistakes quickly and got the pulse from general audiences. Then fired whoever they had to fire and make quick course corrections to suicide squad. All this with WB's strategy in the movie's release. It's quite a feat.

As for Spidey, his arrival to Civil War was well known with Sony's partnership with Marvel. His reveal in the trailer wasn't integral to the storyline.

Whereas, we only speculated about Doomsday. His reveal in the trailer was integral to the storyline. Which then led to discussions of a possible Death of Superman storyline even before the movie's release.

Not the same.

I see the argument you are trying to make, unfortunately it has nothing to do with my post. Mine isn't a discussion as to why one spoiler was ok and one wasn't. My point was the WB team got roasted bad for their campaign and now I'm hearing the WB team saved the movie?
Ok.

 

[CaptainWagner]

A friend of mine describes the WB marketing department as "probably making summoning circles of booze and cigarettes to call the spirit of Don Draper". Its a funny image, and really speaks the truth: its the marketing department that is doing the gold star work here, not the movie makers themselves.

The marketing has been truly amazing, and has really saved their behinds. Warner has all the right ingrediants for a great universe: Outstanding cast, Brilliant Creative Teams (Excluding Snyder's Direction Flaws), and Terrific Marketing. Thankfully it seems that they've learned from their mistakes and will stop trying to change the recipe post-production.

You can see this within the films. Like others said earlier in the thread, there are great moments in each DCEU film that show they have what it takes, but everything kept getting muddled up by the execs. The Battfleck Warehouse fight, Wonder Woman's debut, and most of the characters from SS are all examples of "The movie wasn't too good, but those parts were great!"

 

[DavidHaller]

DC movies are a catastrophe. I'm shocked how bad this movie was.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

It bad but I think Snyder ones worse still.

 

[Patchwork Man]

As for Spidey, his arrival to Civil War was well known with Sony's partnership with Marvel. His reveal in the trailer wasn't integral to the storyline.

Whereas, we only speculated about Doomsday. His reveal in the trailer was integral to the storyline. Which then led to discussions of a possible Death of Superman storyline even before the movie's release.

Not the same.

Spider-Man's reveal wasn't a spoiler. The spoiler was seeing Iron Man getting tag-teamed by Cap and Bucky. And that was in the first trailer. They should have never shown that. There was an additional shot of Bucky damaging Iron Man's chest repulsor. After the airport fight, you more or less knew how the movie was going to end. The only thing missing was the catalyst (Bucky and Stark's parents), and that felt very forced.

I didn't feel showing Doomsday was a spoiler because we weren't sure it was that Doomsday. We weren't even sure Superman would die until he did. It could have gone either way.

 

[kguillou]

I think trailers in general are showing too much from movies. I mean, just IMAGINE what it would have been like to sit in the theater watching CW and you see that "Queens" logo pop up having no idea Spiderman is in the movie. Or how,much of an "oh s***" moment it would have been to see Doomsday as a surprise in BvS. And, you know whats ironic? Both Doomsday AND Spiderman have barely any merchandise out there associated with their films, so, theoretically , they really COULD have hidden them from their respective movies.

 

[Patchwork Man]

I think trailers in general are showing too much from movies. I mean, just IMAGINE what it would have been like to sit in the theater watching CW and you see that "Queens" logo pop up having no idea Spiderman is in the movie. Or how,much of an "oh s***" moment it would have been to see Doomsday as a surprise in BvS. And, you know whats ironic? Both Doomsday AND Spiderman have barely any merchandise out there associated with their films, so, theoretically , they really COULD have hidden them from their respective movies.

They are. It would've been nice for Doomsday to not have been shown in the trailer. I think the other trailers sold the film splendidly. I try to watch only the first trailer for each film I look forward to. I cheated and watched the second trailer. I did not watch the third, which I hear included a lot of footage from the warehouse fight, which for me is the best part of the film.

CA:CW didn't require Spider-Man's reveal in a trailer. The film was guaranteed to fill seats based on its roster.

 

[Corysxj88]

Snyder needs to be begging Nolan to help him out. I cannot even fatham a DC universe with Nolan at the helm.... WOW!!!

 

[kguillou]

But lets be honest. Nolan's heart isnt in these superhero properties. He found appeal in Batman because of his grounded, noir roots but he has no affinity for comic books or superheroes for that matter. I cant see him honestly caring that much about Wonder Woman, Aquaman or Flash.

I agree Snyder needs some fine tuning but he's one of the very few CBM director who actually loves comic books and is a geek about them.

 

[idiot09]

But lets be honest. Nolan's heart isnt in these superhero properties. He found appeal in Batman because of his grounded, noir roots but he has no affinity for comic books or superheroes for that matter. I cant see him honestly caring that much about Wonder Woman, Aquaman or Flash.

I agree Snyder needs some fine tuning but he's one of the very few CBM director who actually loves comic books and is a geek about them.

Yep,agreed.The fact that someone like Geoff Johns is now working with him(the guy is basically a encyclopedia of DC comics and has such a grip over characters) is a even more positive.

 

[Corysxj88]

But lets be honest. Nolan's heart isnt in these superhero properties. He found appeal in Batman because of his grounded, noir roots but he has no affinity for comic books or superheroes for that matter. I cant see him honestly caring that much about Wonder Woman, Aquaman or Flash.

I agree Snyder needs some fine tuning but he's one of the very few CBM director who actually loves comic books and is a geek about them.

But didn't Nolan have his hand in MOS? I think Nolan is a very gifted story teller and yes I agree that you should have your heart in whatever you are creating, but I think given the time, Nolan could have really created some really brilliant stories. When you see a movie like TDK, its very hard to not want every DC movie to be this way.