Isnt this movie mostly about Peter?

[The Shape]

Ok, you're done now

and your argument is...where?

He was the best thing in the story IMO. By far the most interesting character to watch.

And never in a million years is 35 minutes out of a 2 hour movie enough screen time for a leading character. And he was the SOLO villain.

I feel for the Venom fans in SM-3. With something like 4 villains, and host of new supporting characters like Gwen and her dad, the villains will probably be a blip on the screen.

IN YOUR OPINION.

i feel for you, because you won't be satisfied unless the villains get almost as much screentime as the hero, which is NOT the way it should be. SM3 could be even MORE peter-based then SM2, with the whole symbiote/good-evil thing going on with peter. you probably won't get what you're looking for unless peter is killed off, and it's up to the villains to carry the movies.

spider-man will always overshadow the villains, simply because it's his story.

 

[The Joker]

and your argument is...where?

You really need an arguement to that remark??

Ok.

You said there should be no balance between the hero and the villain. Who would not want that??? What kind of Spidey fan doesn't want a balance between Spidey and his villains??

Especially when there's just ONE villain in the story.

IN YOUR OPINION.

Yes, in my opinion. That's why I said it. But thanks for repeating it.

i feel for you, because you won't be satisfied unless the villains get almost as much screentime as the hero, which is NOT the way it should be.

I feel for you. Because you obviously cannot read. I never said they should have the same amount of screen time. I said there should be a BALANCE. Meaning that the villain should have as much a part to the story as the hero. That doesn't mean equal screen time. But sufficient screen time.

The villain is the challenge to the hero. The reason he puts on the costume. If you have no balance between the hero and his antagonist, then you make the story weak.

you probably won't get what you're looking for unless peter is killed off

I didn't think you could put both feet in your mouth, but you just managed it.

spider-man will always overshadow the villains, simply because it's his story.

No, that's his movie story.

 

[DOG LIPS]

Peter must fight off the sandman, harry, and the probable mysterio, and Eddie and deal with his personal issues all in a 2 hour movie? Just doesnt seem feasible to me.

I hope not. I'd like to see Bruce Campbell (if he is) have a scene as Beck, and maybe a nod to his "career choice" but this movie is jam-packed with villains as it is.

 

[The Shape]

You really need an arguement to that remark??

Ok.

You said there should be no balance between the hero and the villain. Who would not want that??? What kind of Spidey fan doesn't want a balance between Spidey and his villains??

Especially when there's just ONE villain in the story.

a spidey fan who would want to learn more about SPIDER-MAN, rather than his villains. simple as that.

Yes, in my opinion. That's why I said it. But thanks for repeating it.

yes, in your opinion. not the general population of spidey fans.

I feel for you. Because you obviously cannot read. I never said they should have the same amount of screen time. I said there should be a BALANCE. Meaning that the villain should have as much a part to the story as the hero. That doesn't mean equal screen time. But sufficient screen time.

The villain is the challenge to the hero. The reason he puts on the costume. If you have no balance between the hero and his antagonist, then you make the story weak.

you are suggesting that the villain should have as much a part to the story as a hero. but why? it's the hero's story. therfore, the hero obviously has a much bigger meaning to the story than the villain. that's just common sense.

yes, a villain is an antagonist. but in the case of Ock in SM2, he is not half the antagonist to Spidey as the GG was in SM1. therefore, he does not need nearly as much screentime or development as Spider-man.

there certainly WAS balance between Ock and Spidey, but not really between Ock and Peter. SM2 was more about Peter than it was about Spider-man, which was a good thing IMO. however, a good chunk of the Spidey scenes were between him and Ock. you can't say that Ock need to be around all of the time when Peter's dealing MJ, Harry, or Aunt May. what about when he gives up being Spidey? should Ock still be popping up fighting Spidey? no. the story of Peter was such a big part of SM2 compared to the Spidey part.

and you say the villain is the reason the heroes put on their costumes? well, what did Peter, who had given up being Spider-man, do when Ock kidnapped MJ? he took up the mantle of Spidey once more. Ock really did play an important part in SM2. his part was just not important enough for him to get nearly the same amount of screentime.

No, that's his movie story.

sure, it's his movie story, but it's his story. it will always be that way. even in the comics, it's all about Spidey. there's no way you can say that the villains get just as much development as Spidey, because there are tons of issues that don't even have villains in them! they just focus on Peter's struggles.

if you want movies where the villains overshadow the hero, watch the Burton Batman movies.

 

[The Shape]

I hope not. I'd like to see Bruce Campbell (if he is) have a scene as Beck, and maybe a nod to his "career choice" but this movie is jam-packed with villains as it is.

chances are that's what we'll get. Mysterio is NOT in SM3.

 

[The Joker]

a spidey fan who would want to learn more about SPIDER-MAN, rather than his villains. simple as that.

If there's balance in the story, you can learn about both equally.

yes, in your opinion. not the general population of spidey fans.

And you know this how??

Just because a movie is liked, does not mean that people found it flawless. I've seen plenty of people complain about Ock's lack of screen time.

I love SM-2. But I'm not looking at it thru rose coloured glasses. The movie had it's flaws. And lack of villain involvement was one of them.

you are suggesting that the villain should have as much a part to the story as a hero. but why? it's the hero's story. therfore, the hero obviously has a much bigger meaning to the story than the villain. that's just common sense.

The hero's story has a huge involvement from the villain, because it is because of the villain he needs to be a hero.

yes, a villain is an antagonist. but in the case of Ock in SM2, he is not half the antagonist to Spidey as the GG was in SM1. therefore, he does not need nearly as much screentime or development as Spider-man.

That's exactly my point.

Bad writing. Ock should have been more of an antagonist considering he was threatening the entire city, while GG was just out to torment Spidey. But Ock didn't become a concern until near the end when he kidnapped MJ.

there certainly WAS balance between Ock and Spidey, but not really between Ock and Peter. SM2 was more about Peter than it was about Spider-man, which was a good thing IMO. however, a good chunk of the Spidey scenes were between him and Ock. you can't say that Ock need to be around all of the time when Peter's dealing MJ, Harry, or Aunt May.

Of course not.

You're under the impression that every two minutes I want to see the villain.

Not so. I want the villain's part in the story to be of some major significance. For his presence to be felt. For alot of SM-2, Ock's was not.

what about when he gives up being Spidey? should Ock still be popping up fighting Spidey? no. the story of Peter was such a big part of SM2 compared to the Spidey part.

That's what I said above. Bad writing. The story was written in a way that the villain was left out the loop almost entirely, until towards the end.

and you say the villain is the reason the heroes put on their costumes? well, what did Peter, who had given up being Spider-man, do when Ock kidnapped MJ? he took up the mantle of Spidey once more. Ock really did play an important part in SM2. his part was just not important enough for him to get nearly the same amount of screentime.

Like I said, bad writing.

His should of had a larger role in the story. I mean, he wasn't even sharing the spotlight with another villain.

It was ridiculous.

sure, it's his movie story, but it's his story. it will always be that way. even in the comics, it's all about Spidey. there's no way you can say that the villains get just as much development as Spidey, because there are tons of issues that don't even have villains in them! they just focus on Peter's struggles.

The comics very much so have a balance. Spidey and his villains both get plenty of exposure in a mere 22 page story. My god, even the cartoons did.

SM-1 pulled it off. Pity SM-2 didn't. And by the look of SM-3, that will not either.

if you want movies where the villains overshadow the hero, watch the Burton Batman movies.

Strike three............YOU'RE OUT!!!!

I never said I wanted the villain to overshadow the hero.

 

[Eggyman]

edit, double post, soz

 

[Eggyman]

chances are that's what we'll get. Mysterio is NOT in SM3.

I hope he isn't - with the development of brock and showing harry's struggle against his madness and showing pete/spidey's fight against the darkness inside - we need a villain who is more physical than that. Maybe a dialuted version of shocker - just some guy robbing a bank with shock weapons. spidey could call hom 'the pillow' like he did in the spidey 1 game. yes more whit please!

 

[Kid_Kaos]

I hope he isn't - with the development of brock and showing harry's struggle against his madness and showing pete/spidey's fight against the darkness inside - we need a villain who is more physical than that. Maybe a dialuted version of shocker - just some guy robbing a bank with shock weapons. spidey could call hom 'the pillow' like he did in the spidey 1 game. yes more whit please!

I thought it already was confirmed by TH Church in an interview back in June or so that there will be the Shocker in the bank!? All the costumes would back that up too. Where did the Mysterio rumors come from???

Good to know I'm not the only one having problems with Dock Ock's character development. I know it's about Pete but we had enough of him in the last installment. The drama needs to shift to other characters like MJ, Harry and Sandman just involving Pete.

Actually I would prefer to see Sandman turning good in the end and fighting with Spidey afterwards. Harry would turn and die right before to make Sandman's decision to turn easier. Venom would be dangerous to Sandy (and every other villain) anyway. He could ultimately turn back evil and die in the 5th or 6th movie with Venom returning for a last big fight. That would be some serious characterisation for a comicbook villain in a movie.

But the way I see it Sandman, Venom and Harry will all go down in the last 10 minutes of S-M3.

 

[CrypticOne]

topher and the villians have big enough roles, but the story is about peter. after all, the movie is called SPIDER-MAN. it's not supposed to be about the villians. it's supposed to be about the struggles of pete.

i think this movie will be even more focused on peter/spidey, especially because of the symbiote. for instance, this new teaser poster we have is about the duality in spidey, rather than the teaser of dock ock we got for SM3.

this is definitely a good thing, although most people here wants VILLIANS, VILLIANS, VILLIANS. while the villians serve a purpose in telling his story, the character that means the most to me is spider-man, and i'm glad that, unlike the previous batman movies, the focus has been mainly on the title character.

you don't have to worry. all the villians and subplots will piece together to tell a great story.

I agree with you, very well said.

 

[DACrowe]

I think Ock had enough screentime in SM2. His storyline was loss and maddness and being in his own world to get fame and recognition. We see his descent and fall and we see him at work and we see the lengths he'll go to fullfill his hubris and ego, including attacking Harry and Peter. He will then fight of course and he has a redemptive scene. But the more important part to Raimi was developing him before the accident with Rosie and how Peter wants that. He sees the loss then that becoming all consuming with your work Ock has.

YOu may find that frustrating but Raimi's choice of story is to tell it from the story's POV of Peter Parker and the villains are to serve as foils for him physically and what he is going through. Norman served as a fellow scientist who got powers but was not responsible and was selfish and he (Peter) had lost a father in Uncle Ben and going to Norman he was coping with that as NOrman served as a foil as the bad real father of Harry whose neglect sends him on a road of evil instead of responsibility and goodness.

I explained how Doc Ock was made to mirror Peter and what he wanted and what he would become if continues down that road and it worked. IN SM3 expect more of the same as everyone is looking for revenge and as one poster said that it will blacken his heart and Venom will be what he could be inside as vengence is not the answer.

Sure these are all morality lessons but so were what Stan Lee wrote.

BTW I find it funny how you say "Ock needed more character scenes that didn't neccesarily serve the plot" yet the scene with the cake is a great little character scene for Peter and you want to cut it because it has nothing to do with the plot. I"m not attacking you Ock, as I greatly respect you and your opinion that just struck is funny is all though.

 

[Carnotaur3]

I love what Raimi is doing here.

What he's done is he's prepared us for what is to come. Spider-Man 1 we saw a villain born, to which his reigns will be recovered by Harry in Spider-Man 3, turning brother against brother.

Spider-Man 2 we were able to get closer to Peter and MJ, and their relationship will carry on through to Spider-Man 3, where he will face bigger demons.

Green Goblin... Doc Ock... when you think about it, these villians are only devices for the third movie... the movie where everything goes to hell, and Peter will have to make the biggest decisions and fight his most dangerous battles.

He has to confront Sandman. He has to confront Harr. He has to confront Eddie Brock. He has to confront the symbiote... and then he has to confront Venom and Sandman teaming up.

Sandman is bassically a GG and Doc Ock in the beginning, but when Venom comes into the picture, he's just a bigger thorn in the side. As for Venom... Raimi has set the biggest, scariest, most powerful villian to be the last one Spider-Man fights. It might be 10 minutes. But it will be a battle that will really feel like a fight to the death. It will be exciting, draining, and scary. It will seem like Peter won't survive it, but we know he will.

And because we know what the symbiote and Eddie Brock are like, we will know Venom. We will know his motivations. And he will be the only real Villian that wants both Peter Parker and Spider-Man dead.

Spider-Man 3 is going to be a groovy movie!