It Starts: Bad news for Blu-Ray

[THWIP*]

Of course it is, is it NOT their system? They had ALL of the control on how it was built and what went into it.

YOU SHOULD REALLY DO A LITTLE RESEARCH, BEFORE YOU SAY SUCH THINGS.

 

[LongDong]

Microsoft and NVidia developed the chip for the original Xbox, but it used coding owned by NVidia.

The 360 chip was designed by ATI.

Neither company is owned or a subsidiary by Microsoft, therefore they can't simply put the code in. If they did, Microsoft would violate several copyright laws, and other business laws.

Don't be a dumbass about this just because you "support Sony"

MS = one of the richest corporations in the world. They easily could have gotten it done.

Stop with the insults man, there is NO reason for that childish ****.

 

[LongDong]

YOU SHOULD REALLY DO A LITTLE RESEARCH, BEFORE YOU SAY SUCH THINGS.

Microsft could have gotten anything done they wanted. ANYTHING! They have more than deep enough pockets if it were a money issue.

MS fanboys crack me up. They NEVER want anything bad to be said about MS, no matter if it is true or not, however they say nothing but bad things about Sony.

I have an xbox and ps2, I am a fence rider however do think they huge Sony library wins points over xbox for me.

That must be why I see both sides of the story yet the xbox purists never do.

 

[CM Punk]

MS = one of the richest corporations in the world because they don't do stupid stuff like buying expensive chipsets from Intel and nVidia, releasing an overpriced console because of it, all so they can do something they could have done for free anyways.

 

[Avalanche]

Microsoft is one of the richest corporations in the world for one reason only. They entered an emerging market at just the right time. Everything they have since is off the back of that.

 

[THWIP*]

Microsft could have gotten anything done they wanted. ANYTHING! They have more than deep enough pockets if it were a money issue.

MS fanboys crack me up. They NEVER want anything bad to be said about MS, no matter if it is true or not, however they say nothing but bad things about Sony.

I have an xbox and ps2, I am a fence rider however do think they huge Sony library wins points over xbox for me.

That must be why I see both sides of the story yet the xbox purists never do.

$$ DOESN'T SOLVE ALL PROBLEMS, KID. LET ME BREAK A FEW THINGS DOWN FOR YOU........LIKE I'VE HAD TO DO ON THIS SUBJECT FAR TOO MANY TIMES:

1. MORE $$ = HIGHER COSTS = HIGHER RETAIL PRICING. 'SONY' HAS NEVER HAD TO WORRY ABOUT THAT, WITH THE BC ISSUE, BECAUSE THEY DEVELOPED AND THEREFORE OWNED THE TECH IN THEIR CONSOLES. 'MS' TRIED TO REACH AN AGREEMENT WITH 'NVIDIA'. HOWEVER, HAVING JUST BEEN SPURNED BY 'MS', IN FAVOR OF 'ATI'.......AND THEN PICKED UP BY 'SONY'......IT WAS A BIT OF A CONFLICT OF INTEREST TO NEGOTIATE A NEW CONTRACT, TO SAY THE LEAST.
2. THE ONLY AGREEMENT THEY COULD REACH WITH 'NVIDIA', WAS THE LICENSING RIGHTS TO DECODE THE OLD CHIP, AND EMULATE THE GAMES. THEY COULDN'T PUT THE 'NVIDIA' XBOX CHIP IN THE '360'......WHICH HAS ALWAYS BEEN 'SONY'S SOLUTION TO BC.
3. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH "MS FANBOYS". IT'S SIMPLE BUSINESS AND ECONOMICS.......BLACK & WHITE FACTS. ANYONE WHO STILL CAN'T UNDERSTAND THE '360' BC ISSUE, IS EITHER ******ED, OR ARE JUST TOO STUBBORN/LAZY TO SEE THESE FACTS.

 

[THWIP*]

Microsoft is one of the richest corporations in the world for one reason only. They entered an emerging market at just the right time. Everything they have since is off the back of that.

YOU CAN'T BE SERIOUS.

 

[Addendum]

MS = one of the richest corporations in the world. They easily could have gotten it done.

No. Read up on copyright laws and business laws. If they did, Microsoft could face legal action and if they lost the case, that would have severely crippled any 360 sale or future production.

Stop with the insults man, there is NO reason for that childish ****.

It's only an insult cause it's true. Read up about first, then post your dumbass comments.

 

[THWIP*]

No. Read up on copyright laws and business laws. If they did, Microsoft could face legal action and if they lost the case, that would have severely crippled any 360 sale or future production.


It's only an insult cause it's true. Read up about first, then post your dumbass comments.

WE'RE WASTING OUR TIME, DUDE. I'VE TRIED TO EDUCATE PEOPLE ON THE '360' BC ISSUE MANY, MANY TIMES........AND THEY ALWAYS SAY THE SAME STUPID S**T. SOMETIMES YOU JUST HAVE TO LET PEOPLE WALLOW IN THEIR OWN IGNORANCE.

 

[CM Punk]

Microsoft is one of the richest corporations in the world for one reason only. They entered an emerging market at just the right time. Everything they have since is off the back of that.

How is that? They entered the OS market at the time when it had the most competition from companies that all had better products than them, and they wiped them all out through a combination of illegal ******* business practices and lots of shady deals. They may not be moral, but there's a lot more to their success than just dumb luck.

 

[SpiderFan17]

I really want Blu-Ray to win, because it's head and shoulders above HD-DVD as far as technology is concerned, but I just don't see it happening anymore.

Besides storage capacity, exactly how is Blu ray "heads and shoulders" above HD? The format up till this point was filling up single layer disks with transfers encoded in MPEG2. If you cant compress MPEG 2 to less than 25 gigs easily, how exactly is that "heads and shoulders" above the rest?

HD DVD, technologically speaking, is already finishing a new hybrid disk, where one side can fit a dual layer standard dvd, and the other side is a dual layered HD-DVD. Obviously, this means without requiring hardware updates they can add new layers (something they boasted about way back when).


Blu-ray, if storage capacity is the ONLY thing you're counting, does have an edge, but only slightly.

 

[Addendum]

WE'RE WASTING OUR TIME, DUDE. I'VE TRIED TO EDUCATE PEOPLE ON THE '360' BC ISSUE MANY, MANY TIMES........AND THEY ALWAYS SAY THE SAME STUPID S**T. SOMETIMES YOU JUST HAVE TO LET PEOPLE WALLOW IN THEIR OWN IGNORANCE.

I didn't understand it when the 360 came out. Then when I found out that different companies were involved with the Xbox chip and the 360 chip, it made sense.

Besides, why buy a brand-new next-gen system if all you're going to play on it is last-gen's games? Get a refurbished Xbox at Gamestop and buy the used games. Then when there's plenty of titles you want to get for the 360, then get one.

When the games I want to play on the 360 come out, that's when I'm getting one. Hell, I'm getting the games anyway before I get a 360.

 

[CM Punk]

*snip*.

As a storage medium, storage capacity would be the most important thing, and that's an area where Blu-Ray has much more than a "slight" advantage. TDK has already produced a 200GB Blu-Ray sextuple layer disc. The biggest HD-DVD in existence is a triple layer 90GB disc. That's way more than "slight". Getting away from storage capacity, there's the Java support for Blu-Ray, which in the future could lead to some pretty cool stuff, and the "Durabis" coating which can actually take an attack from a screwdriver and iron wool without a problem, which are both big technological leaps over what HD-DVD offers. Blu-Ray, at least on paper, is better than HD-DVD. The problem is that they haven't managed to translate that "on paper" to "in real life" yet, and if things keep going the way they're going, they may never get the chance to.

 

[THWIP*]

I didn't understand it when the 360 came out. Then when I found out that different companies were involved with the Xbox chip and the 360 chip, it made sense.

Besides, why buy a brand-new next-gen system if all you're going to play on it is last-gen's games? Get a refurbished Xbox at Gamestop and buy the used games. Then when there's plenty of titles you want to get for the 360, then get one.

When the games I want to play on the 360 come out, that's when I'm getting one. Hell, I'm getting the games anyway before I get a 360.

THAT'S JUST IT.....NOBODY UNDERSTOOD IT, UNTIL THERE WAS MORE INFORMATION. BUT THAT'S BEEN PUBLIC FOR ALMOST A YEAR NOW; THERE'S ABSOLUTELY NO REASON/ EXCUSE FOR PEOPLE STILL REHASHING THE SAME TIRED BULLS**T, WHEN YOU KNOW THE FACTS. I WAS PISSED MYSELF, WHEN I FIRST HEARD NOT ALL GAMES WOULD BE BC, AND THEY REQUIRED THE HDD, ETC. BUT THEN I TOOK IT UPON MYSELF TO DIG FOR ANSWERS; I READ EVERY SINGLE ARTICLE IN EVERY MAGAZINE, AND ON EVERY WEBSITE.......EVEN HEARD SOME INTERVIEWS.......AND THEN I UNDERSTOOD AND ACCEPTED IT.
AND YES......I TOO BOUGHT MY '360' FOR NEXT-GEN GAMING; I JUST WANTED TO STILL BE ABLE TO PLAY 'CRIMSON SKIES' AND 'THIEF: DS', SINCE I GAVE MY XBOX TO A FRIEND. HAD THEY NOT BEEN MADE BC, I'D STILL BE FINE THOUGH.......SINCE I HAVEN'T PLAYED EITHER SINCE LAST NOVEMBER.

 

[LongDong]

No. Read up on copyright laws and business laws. If they did, Microsoft could face legal action and if they lost the case, that would have severely crippled any 360 sale or future production.


It's only an insult cause it's true. Read up about first, then post your dumbass comments.

There is nothing that says "dumbass" about any of my comments. MS could have easily gotten this done by writing that check.

You want to trade insults take it to the PM's and I will be more than happy to do that. However do not act like a child and try to play that **** here on the boards in front of your "buddies". These boards are polluted with enough crap that you really need not go down that juvenile road.

 

[Danalys]

might be more likely to get a decent x-box emulator on a PS3 eventually, lol. the x-box is dead and with no bc it's games have died with it. they really should have thought of possible problems down the line with licencing, while making the first machine. anyway hopefuly my x-box holds up for a while yet.

 

[CM Punk]

Yes, MS could have easily gotten this done by writing that check, costing them millions if not billions, and costing the consumer more money to buy the product, leading to fewer people buying it, leading to a smaller market which leads to less 3rd party games, which leads to even fewer people buying it, which potentially leads to the failure of the platform altogether. And no, that's not a exaggeration, releasing a very big, very hot, very expensive (even with the PS3's $500 and $600 setup that would be a big loss, you're talking about another $120 or more tacked onto the production cost) console would have been a serious, serious problem for Microsoft. They could have accomplished the same thing (BC) with free emulation, leading to none of those side effects and saving them money, and yet you do not see this. That is what says "dumbass" about your comments.

 

[Zenien]

EXACTLY.......AND 'ZENIEN' KNOWS THAT, BUT IS TOO STUBBORN TO ADMIT IT.

It's rich that you say I'm stuborn, that's a hypocritical statement right there.

Anyway look at it this way, Microsoft could have alloted twice or three times the budget to their BC efforts, gotten a lot more titles up and running, and it wouldn't have put anywhere near a dent in their company. For the 4 billion they've lost on the Xbox brand they've made tens of billions through the rest of the company at the same time. How much do you think they spent on BC? A million? Maybe 3-5 being extremely generous?

It's MICROSOFT, they could sell the 360 premium right now for 200 dollars and come out of it with Billions in earnings every year.

You're just too stubborn to admit that Microsoft didn't do everything in their power to make games BC, like you claimed a ways back.

If Microsoft did everything in its power, for one thing, as you claim they did for BC on the 360, there's nothing that could stop them, provided it was legal of course.

Had the suitable motivation, they could have gotten nearly every title or what would essentially be every title, working.

 

[LongDong]

It's rich that you say I'm stuborn, that's a hypocritical statement right there.

Anyway look at it this way, Microsoft could have alloted twice or three times the budget to their BC efforts, gotten a lot more titles up and running, and it wouldn't have put anywhere near a dent in their company. For the 4 billion they've lost on the Xbox brand they've made tens of billions through the rest of the company at the same time. How much do you think they spent on BC? A million? Maybe 3-5 being extremely generous?

It's MICROSOFT, they could sell the 360 premium right now for 200 dollars and come out of it with Billions in earnings every year.

You're just too stubborn to admit that Microsoft didn't do everything in their power to make games BC, like you claimed a ways back.

If Microsoft did everything in its power, for one thing, as you claim they did for BC on the 360, there's nothing that could stop them, provided it was legal of course.

Had the suitable motivation, they could have gotten nearly every title or what would essentially be every title, working.

Exactly

 

[Zenien]

THWIP is doing the whole "You got me so I'm going to make a really long post using and a lot"

 

[THWIP*]

It's rich that you say I'm stuborn, that's a hypocritical statement right there.

Anyway look at it this way, Microsoft could have alloted twice or three times the budget to their BC efforts, gotten a lot more titles up and running, and it wouldn't have put anywhere near a dent in their company. For the 4 billion they've lost on the Xbox brand they've made tens of billions through the rest of the company at the same time. How much do you think they spent on BC? A million? Maybe 3-5 being extremely generous?

It's MICROSOFT, they could sell the 360 premium right now for 200 dollars and come out of it with Billions in earnings every year.

You're just too stubborn to admit that Microsoft didn't do everything in their power to make games BC, like you claimed a ways back.

If Microsoft did everything in its power, for one thing, as you claim they did for BC on the 360, there's nothing that could stop them, provided it was legal of course.

Had the suitable motivation, they could have gotten nearly every title or what would essentially be every title, working.

THE 'XBOX' DIVISION IS A SEPARATE ENTITY, WHICH HAS TO BE ACCOUNTABLE, AND CONVINCE SHAREHOLDERS THEY CAN PRODUCE A VIABLE, PROFITABLE COMMODITY, LIKE THE OTHER DIVISIONS WITHIN THE COMPANY. AT THIS POINT, THEY'RE STILL ON "PROBATION", SO TO SPEAK, WITH ALOT LEFT TO PROVE. THEY COULDN'T WRECKLESSLY THROW $$ AT SOMETHING, THAT WASN'T KEY TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE PLATFORM......PARTICULARLY WHEN IT WOULDN'T GUARANTEE ANY MORE SUCCESS, AND WOULD CERTAINLY TAKE $$ AWAY FROM OTHER AREAS.

LOOK AT 'SONY'. THEIR STOCKHOLDERS ARE CHOMPING AT THE BIT, BECAUSE 'SONY'S ELECTRONICS DIVISION'S MARKET SHARE AND VALUE IS 1/2 OF WHAT IT WAS 6 YEARS AGO. DON'T YOU THINK, IF THEY COULD, THEY'D LEVERAGE THEIR EARNINGS FROM, SAY, THE 'SPIDER-MAN' MOVIES, IF THEY COULD? BUT THEY CAN'T......IT'S A SEPARATE ENTITY, AND THAT $$ ISN'T THEIRS TO MESS WITH.

IT'S NOT A MATTER OF DOING "EVERYTHING IN YOUR POWER", 'ZENIEN'......STOP BEING SO SIMPLE-MINDED AND DITZY.

 

[THWIP*]

THWIP is doing the whole "You got me so I'm going to make a really long post using and a lot"

NO, 'ZENIEN', I JUST HAD ABOUT 5 PHONECALLS IN A ROW. DON'T PRETEND TO UNDERSTAND ME......YOU'RE NOT EVEN IN MY LEAGUE.

 

[THWIP*]

Exactly

NO, NOT EXACTLY......UNLESS YOU'RE EQUALLY AS STUBBORN AND IGNORANT AS 'ZENIEN'.


BUT THEN AGAIN.....

 

[LongDong]

Yes, MS could have easily gotten this done by writing that check, costing them millions if not billions, and costing the consumer more money to buy the product, leading to fewer people buying it, leading to a smaller market which leads to less 3rd party games, which leads to even fewer people buying it, which potentially leads to the failure of the platform altogether. And no, that's not a exaggeration, releasing a very big, very hot, very expensive (even with the PS3's $500 and $600 setup that would be a big loss, you're talking about another $120 or more tacked onto the production cost) console would have been a serious, serious problem for Microsoft. They could have accomplished the same thing (BC) with free emulation, leading to none of those side effects and saving them money, and yet you do not see this. That is what says "dumbass" about your comments.

Obviously you know nothing about business and you are throwing numbers out that you probably read on some blog somewhere. Microsoft would not have had to spend BILLIONS of dollars to get this done. Do you understand how much even 1 million dollars is? AT MOST this would have cost them a few million. They do NOT need to pass this on to the consumer as they certainly did not pass on all of the cost of the XBOX OR the 360 to the consumer. MS as a whole is a VASTLY PROFITABLE business, and taking a loss on the 360 would have garnered them MORE support from the fan base. There are plenty of people sitting on the fence who have not purchased a 360 due to the limited library of games, however were it BC then they would have. I am one of those people. WHY buy a machine that plays next gen when the number of worthwhile next gen games is very low? However in order to have one or two next gen games I would have bought this machine if it played my old games.

They make a massive amount of profit off of other products to be able to absorb a slightly bigger loss on the 360. That would have been a smart move as they would sell more units and have a higher amount of these units in the consumers hands and homes. This will be a big factor in the PS3 Juggernaut being the number one system again (if they get it figured out which knowing Sony they probably will)

So what it would have cost Microsoft another 5 million (drop in the bucket to them especially when dividing it by the number of 360's sold and for sale) but it would also have help them sell more of these machines and give them a greater foothold for when the PS3 launches.

Stupid move MS, stupid move.

 

[Zenien]

Actually it is loser, because you specifically refered to Microsoft the entity, and said they did everything in their power.

And suprise suprise, yes THWIP, seperate devisions have their own accountability, but the point of a good company is having those seperate devisions working together as the whole of the greater company. Do you really think, Microsoft, one of the smartest and most underhanded buisinesses in history, doesn't see the big picture? That they, or their share holders really only look at the beans being counted. They know everything is a means to an end. Microsoft is a company that's prepared to bleed millions to take over a market they fell is important, regardless of the money it costs them, because after they've taken over, they're making all that money back.

Alloting a slightly bigger budget to BC wouldn't be outside of the realm of possibility for a company with the style of Microsoft, and at the end of the day, as you seem to have missed the point, they clearly never did everything in their power, even within their own little new focal point of the company Xbox devision.

You DO take a look at their quarterly statements don't you? You know have many devisions have been operating at a loss for years? And as long as that section is making headway to position Microsoft to where Microsoft wants to be in thata rea, they give them practically a blank check to do it. The Xbox devision is one of those devisions THWIP.

And with all your rambling, you're avoiding the issue and did nothign but manufacture flimsy excuses. Point stands Microsoft didn't do everything in their power to enable BC.