It Starts: Bad news for Blu-Ray

[THWIP*]

DUDE, the GameCube wasn't THAT bad.

Do you remember the Atari Jaguar?

Same case.

YOU'RE COMPARING THE 'GC' TO THE 'JAGUAR'.......AS A GOOD THING?


MY POINT IS, 'NINTENDO' WAS RIDING HIGH FROM THE 'NES', 'SNES', AND 'GAMEBOY'...........AND THEN THEY WENT OUT IN LEFT FIELD WITH THE "AGAINST-THE-GRAIN" GAMECUBE, IN THE FACE OF A HIGHLY-CRITICIZED 'N64'. NOBODY DREAMED 'NINTENDO' WOULD STRUGGLE TO MAKE A PROFIT, LIKE THEY DID WITH THE 'GC'. BUT, THE CHOICES THEY MAKE IN A UNIQUE FORMAT, LACK OF INTEGRATED ONLINE COMPONENTS, AND A LACK OF 3RD PARTY SUPPORT, ULTIMATELY KILLED IT.
'SONY' IS TAKING A SIMILAR RISK.

 

[Timstuff]

ALLOW ME TO INTRODUCE YOU TO SOMEONE....

http://www.thediabetesblog.com/media/2006/03/gamecube.jpg


PRIOR SUCCESS, SAYS NOTHING ABOUT THE FUTURE.

Guess what? Sony's marketshare has INCREASED with each passing generation. Nintendo's has been decreased by 20 million units with each console they put out. The trends applying to Sony are working in their favor, while the ones that happened to Nintendo have lead them into the sorry state where they are.

Sony's situation is nothing at all like Nintendo's. They just keep getting better and better, while Nintendo got progressively worse. The two companies' histories are un-comparable, so don't try to draw paralells between them, because you won't find any.

If anything, it's Nintendo you should be worrying about, since they're the ones making all the mistakes you're accusing Sony of doing (which they are not).

 

[THWIP*]

Guess what? Sony's marketshare has INCREASED with each passing generation. Nintendo's has been decreased by 20 million units with each console they put out. The trends applying to Sony are working in their favor, while the ones that happened to Nintendo have lead them into the sorry state where they are.

Sony's situation is nothing at all like Nintendo's. They just keep getting better and better, while Nintendo got progressively worse. The two companies' histories are un-comparable, so don't try to draw paralells between them, because you won't find any.

If anything, it's Nintendo you should be worrying about, since they're the ones making all the mistakes you're accusing Sony of doing (which they are not).

1. NINTENDO, DESPITE IT'S FAILURES, IS STILL THE MOST PROFITABLE OF THE 3 CONSOLE MAKERS
2. 'SONY' ISN'T AS STRONG AS YOU APPARENTLY THINK
   
   " Chief Executive Officer Howard Stringer, is relying on the PlayStation 3 to revive a company that has lost half its market value in the past six years. Investment in the PlayStation 3, which is priced higher than rival consoles from Microsoft Corp. and Nintendo Co., will be a major drag on profit growth, said analyst Amir Anvarzadeh.
   
   Sony's stock has declined 7.3 percent in the past six months, compared with a 2.6 percent gain in the benchmark Nikkei 225 Stock Average"

 

[SpiderFan17]

By that point the technology will be cheap, and small. They can fill it with obsolete technology all they like so long as it doesn't impact upon my PS4 playing experience.

That is if they keep producing it. Try to find a brand new minidisc player for an inexpensive price.

Exactly my point. Furthermore, this isn't just an emulation chip like with the PS1. This is a laser, mechanical components, processors, etc. If the successor or winning format to blu ray has NOTHING in common with blu ray, then how will they put that in there?

 

[SpiderFan17]

1. NINTENDO, DESPITE IT'S FAILURES, IS STILL THE MOST PROFITABLE OF THE 3 CONSOLE MAKERS

1. 
   Hey hey hey Thwip, knock it off! This isnt a thread of "facts!". This is a thread where if you want to say Sony is #1 you point out how many PSP's they've shipped, or talk about how many Blu Ray units are in production. Profit margins and stock prices are IRRELEVANT!

 

[CrypticOne]

I know this is probably better suited for the Movie Forum, but it's just as relevant for PS3, as it is as reliant on Blu-Ray succeeding as anything else:



Source: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2017527,00.asp



So it begins...

Any guesses on who's next to jump ship and take HD-DVD's hand?

I knew that people weren't going to catch on to this Blu-ray disc. And here is the proof. This is bad for the PS3. I have a feeling that more studios will jump off of the boat in months to come. This doesn't affect me though, the reasons I am going to get a PS3 is for the games.

 

[THWIP*]

Hey hey hey Thwip, knock it off! This isnt a thread of "facts!". This is a thread where if you want to say Sony is #1 you point out how many PSP's they've shipped, or talk about how many Blu Ray units are in production. Profit margins and stock prices are IRRELEVANT!

MY BAD.....I DON'T KNOW WHAT I WAS THINKING.

 

[Addendum]

backwards compatibility and Microsoft go together like oil and water. If the PS3 is not able to match up with the PS4 in the compatibility department, you are in the same boat that the MS consumers are in.

Until MS actually cares enough about its fan base to make this an option on their systems, using that as an argument against the Blu-Ray makes no sense.

Dude, you do realize that a different company was involved with the chip in the Xbox, as opposed to the one in the 360. There's some copyrights and some other stuff that is prohibiting simple BC. It's not Microsoft's fault.

 

[Timstuff]

I knew that people weren't going to catch on to this Blu-ray disc. And here is the proof. This is bad for the PS3. I have a feeling that more studios will jump off of the boat in months to come. This doesn't affect me though, the reasons I am going to get a PS3 is for the games.

It's too late. Only one studio jumped ship on Blu-Ray, and that was like 2 years ago. All but two have already jumped ship on HD-DVD though, and the the only two besides Universal are supporting Blu-Ray as well. Things are looking bad for HD-DVD. If movie studios keep jumping ship on it, then the only studio left supporting it will be Universal.

 

[Not Jake]

aren't people still happy with buying normal DVDs

 

[SpiderFan17]

It's too late. Only one studio jumped ship on Blu-Ray, and that was like 2 years ago. All but two have already jumped ship on HD-DVD though, and the the only two besides Universal are supporting Blu-Ray as well. Things are looking bad for HD-DVD. If movie studios keep jumping ship on it, then the only studio left supporting it will be Universal.

Things could get a lot better really soon for HD DVD. New Line has said that if the amount of HD add-on units sold for 360 outweigh by a good amount the install base of the PS3, New Line will heavily consider HD exclusive support. They're probably figuring since HD has the edge over blu ray in terms of standalone players sold, if they also corner the early adopter market in the console-based players, then they will easily be able to be seen as the bigger force.

As far as WB supporting both formats, at this point they may as well be considered timed exclusive as far as HD goes. Most WB movies that have hit, hit on HD first, and took several months to get to Blu Ray (full metal jacket, blazing saddles) but even then, not all titles have even been announced for bd yet (Constantine, Aeon Flux, etc). Hell, look at titles like Batman Begins due out in a few weeks. Not a single peep about if/when it'll hit on Blu Ray. As well, "Batman" and "Charlie and the chocolate factory" will both have the "in-movie experience" that is HD exclusive. Charlie hits the same day on both formats, but doesnt have the in-movie experience on blu ray, which MSRP's for more.

While on paper Blu ray has majority support, when you look at what's actually happening, HD is really getting the better deal right now.

aren't people still happy with buying normal DVDs

Im plenty happy to buy stuff like TV shows or "casual" movies on dvd. But I have an HDTV, and movies like Serenity, Batman Begins, Constantine, and Full Metal Jacket are something that is really enticing to watch in HD. The format was not created to re-buy your entire collection on HD, or even all the new movies, but it does give people who have HDTV's some more use out of their tv's.

Plus, regular DVD's look fantastic while upscaled through the player, so I'll never stop buying the regular dvd's entirely, until they absolutely stop all production.

 

[Timstuff]

Things could get a lot better really soon for HD DVD. New Line has said that if the amount of HD add-on units sold for 360 outweigh by a good amount the install base of the PS3, New Line will heavily consider HD exclusive support.

Like that is gonna happen.

New Line must either be anticipating PS3 to be a major flop, or they just plain have no intention of going HD-DVD exclusive, and that's the way they chose to word it.

If Blu-Ray ends up completely eclipsing HD-DVD within the next year or so from PS3 sales and lowered prices, I think it's fair to assume that New Line could just as easily be swung the other way.

 

[SpiderFan17]

Like that is gonna happen.

New Line must either be anticipating PS3 to be a major flop, or they just plain have no intention of going HD-DVD exclusive, and that's the way they chose to word it.

If Blu-Ray ends up completely eclipsing HD-DVD within the next year or so from PS3 sales and lowered prices, I think it's fair to assume that New Line could just as easily be swung the other way.

I have no clue what the point of your post is. Let's review, but note that I use the term "point" only because I cant think of a more polite way to say "baseless opinion".

Point 1: New line will not go to hd-dvd, because it cannot eclipse blu ray
Point 2: New line in some form or another is not speaking truthfully
point 3: Blu ray will more than likely get New Line because of points 1 and 2

Yeah, this post is informative and definitely weighing the current situation properly, not just a bunch of regurgitated opinions. Do you have ANY facts at all to back this up? New Line saying their consideration for HD exclusivity if it hits certain sales targets IS A FACT. Why not counter it with another fact?

 

[Timstuff]

No, the issue I take beef with is that you said Newline said they'll go HD-DVD exclusive if the Xbox 360 HD-DVD peripheral outsells the PS3, which I think is more or less impossible, and Newline, if they have any knowledge of the game industry, should know that it's impossible.

 

[SpiderFan17]

No, the issue I take beef with is that you said Newline said they'll go HD-DVD exclusive if the Xbox 360 HD-DVD peripheral outsells the PS3, which I think is more or less impossible, and Newline, if they have any knowledge of the game industry, should know that it's impossible.

They said they would look into exclusivity with the HD format (not "definitely"), and the exact phrase was "depending on how well the 360 peripheral sells this holiday season." If you really think about it, thats not outlandish.

Consider the following: Not every person who buys a PS3 will have an HDTV. But everyone who buys the 360 peripheral would have one, as HD-DVD requires it. Therefore, if they saw 1 million peripherals sold, they know for a fact thats a definite install base of 1 million. Now, when all 500,000 ps3's sell out, how do they definitely know what the install base for blu ray is (because honestly, nobody is going to be stupid enough to buy a ps3 for blu ray to watch on an SDTV).

As far as the "outsells the ps3", thats somewhat implied they're going to be looking at how well the ps3 does as well, as a factor in their exclusivity decision. Not to mention they were speaking about the timeframe of this holiday season, not "if the 360 peripheral outsells the PS3 during this generation".

 

[Timstuff]

Well whatever then. But it would definately be stupid of Newline to jump ship this early, and I highly doubt that the Xbox 360 HD-DVD drive is going to do any serious numbers this year.

 

[CrypticOne]

aren't people still happy with buying normal DVDs

I know I am. And I am not going to start over!

 

[Timstuff]

That's okay. I know people who still use Vynles.

 

[THWIP*]

That's okay. I know people who still use Vynles.

DO YOU MEAN VINYLS?
AND IF SO, VINYL IS STILL THE INDUSTRY STANDARD FOR SOUND REPRODUCTION QUALITY.......LIKELY ALWAYS WILL BE. IT'S REALLY NOT A FAIR COMPARISON.

 

[LongDong]

Dude, you do realize that a different company was involved with the chip in the Xbox, as opposed to the one in the 360. There's some copyrights and some other stuff that is prohibiting simple BC. It's not Microsoft's fault.

Of course it is, is it NOT their system? They had ALL of the control on how it was built and what went into it.

 

[Zenien]

All things equal, it's Microsoft, had they the suitable motivation they could have spent the resources to make every game BC.

 

[CM Punk]

I really want Blu-Ray to win, because it's head and shoulders above HD-DVD as far as technology is concerned, but I just don't see it happening anymore. Too many screw up's have been made along the way. And yes, Microsoft COULD have, but no one can blame them for not doing it. What they did covered the needs of most people, and saved them quite a bit of money. If Microsoft did the only thing that would have gotten a BC 360 (including the Xbox chipset in the machine), then they'd be asking for PS3 prices for the 360. I'd much rather have the emulation than that.

 

[THWIP*]

I really want Blu-Ray to win, because it's head and shoulders above HD-DVD as far as technology is concerned, but I just don't see it happening anymore. Too many screw up's have been made along the way. And yes, Microsoft COULD have, but no one can blame them for not doing it. What they did covered the needs of most people, and saved them quite a bit of money. If Microsoft did the only thing that would have gotten a BC 360 (including the Xbox chipset in the machine), then they'd be asking for PS3 prices for the 360. I'd much rather have the emulation than that.

EXACTLY.......AND 'ZENIEN' KNOWS THAT, BUT IS TOO STUBBORN TO ADMIT IT.

 

[LongDong]

I really want Blu-Ray to win, because it's head and shoulders above HD-DVD as far as technology is concerned, but I just don't see it happening anymore. Too many screw up's have been made along the way. And yes, Microsoft COULD have, but no one can blame them for not doing it. What they did covered the needs of most people, and saved them quite a bit of money. If Microsoft did the only thing that would have gotten a BC 360 (including the Xbox chipset in the machine), then they'd be asking for PS3 prices for the 360. I'd much rather have the emulation than that.

Don't eve talk about MS Savng people money. The 2 versions of the 360 they came out with were a lame excuse to get an extra wad of cash from the consumer. Sure Sony plans on doing the same thing and I think that is bull**** as well. XBOX 360 (the one version worth getting anyway if someone was going to buy one) was 500 bucks, the PS3 is going to be 600. Not much of a difference there dude.

So what it might have cost an extra 50 bucks a machine to have BC, MOST people would rathe rhave that so that they can play the games they have stockpiled without having 2 big clunky machines around. BC is aMAJOR reason many love the PS2 as they do.

If the 360 was BC I would have bought one already. As it is not, forget about it until there is a library of games actually worth investing in.

 

[Addendum]

Of course it is, is it NOT their system? They had ALL of the control on how it was built and what went into it.

Microsoft and NVidia developed the chip for the original Xbox, but it used coding owned by NVidia.

The 360 chip was designed by ATI.

Neither company is owned or a subsidiary by Microsoft, therefore they can't simply put the code in. If they did, Microsoft would violate several copyright laws, and other business laws.

Don't be a dumbass about this just because you "support Sony"