James Bond 24 - Part 3

[Mrs. Sawyer]

I don't find the dead Bond girl to a mandatory thing either. That trope can go.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

There were some really amazing stunts in the Moore years. That cliff scene, the car flip in TMWTGG, the Union Jack skijump, the Moonraker PTS, the Eiffel Tower jump... some of the best stunts in film history.

As for Bond girls, the series seems to cycle between dull eyecandy and actual good characters (sometimes in the same film!) and it has been this way from the beginning. Tracy is widely considered to be the best Bond girl in the entire series and she was from the 60s. Tatiana Romanova and ***** Galore are two of the better ones, and they are from way back in the 2nd and 3rd Bond films.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I don't find the dead Bond girl to a mandatory thing either. That trope can go.

Agreed. Goldfinger did it so well that they have been copying it ever since.

This is one thing that I liked about the Dalton films. Brosnan only had it happen once as well, so they did get away from it for awhile. But it came back in full force in the Craig films.

EDIT: Actually, now that I've thought about it, I believe it only happens one time between Octopussy and Die Another Day. Not counting the ones Bond kills himself. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[AnneFan]

I don't find the dead Bond girl to a mandatory thing either. That trope can go.

I agree. I hope they give this a rest for Bond 24. Vesper, Solange, Fields and Severine in three films. Give the girls a break!

 

[Loki882]

True, but at least we got three good to great ones to compensate. Vesper is my favorite Bond Girl ever (Tracy is a close second), Camille was good if a bit underused, and I really like Naomie Harris's Moneypenny (hey she got a first name, progress). And I wouldn't necessarily count Vesper nor Tracy as part of that list since dying isn't ALL that they're there for, they're fully fleshed-out characters, and they have important roles in the plot. They're not solely their for Bond to sleep with and then die. I'll give you the other three (GOD that was such a waste of Gemma Arterton, she could have been a MAIN Bond Girl with her talent/looks).

 

[Loki882]

The take over the world plot was really only used a couple of times in the Moore years. The Spy Who Loved Me and Moonraker mainly, although I suppose you could include Octopussy if you really stretch it.

Strangely Moore also had some of the more grounded plots in the series in Live and Let Die, The Man with the Golden Gun, and For Your Eyes Only.

The vast majority of Bond villains are just after money.

Admittedly if the debate between "serious grounded and gritty Bond" and "goofy campy over the top Bond" I've always much preferred the former. A couple of the Brosnan movies had pretty over the top villain plots as well. That's one of the reasons for the reboot, even they realized that DAD was THAT freaking stupid/ridiculous (although Rosamund Pike was really good in it).

 

[chamber-music]

Agreed. Goldfinger did it so well that they have been copying it ever since.

This is one thing that I liked about the Dalton films. Brosnan only had it happen once as well, so they did get away from it for awhile. But it came back in full force in the Craig films.

In the Craig films M and villains actually mention how he gets women dead by hooking up with him.

 

[Loki882]

Alec mentions it in Goldeneye as well.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Admittedly if the debate between "serious grounded and gritty Bond" and "goofy campy over the top Bond" I've always much preferred the former. A couple of the Brosnan movies had pretty over the top villain plots as well. That's one of the reasons for the reboot, even they realized that DAD was THAT freaking stupid/ridiculous (although Rosamund Pike was really good in it).

The first Bond girl I truly fell in love with

As for the take over the world plot.

I think Quantum definitely want that. Not in the literal sense. It's not like (we'll call the head "Blofeld") they want to people to bow down to them and worship them.
They want to dictate how the world works, all for their profits. It's uncertain if Blofeld is some egomaniac, who wants to shape the world in his vision. So far, it's all about money.
And they are playing God, shaping events and plots, involving life and death, changing the fundamentals of a country.
They've got people in many places, dictating and advising powerful people.

Quantum are in it for the money. Previous Bond villains were in it mostly for power. Not all, but most.

 

[Dark Raven]

The first Bond girl I truly fell in love with

As for the take over the world plot.

I think Quantum definitely want that. Not in the literal sense. It's not like (we'll call the head "Blofeld") they want to people to bow down to them and worship them.
They want to dictate how the world works, all for their profits. It's uncertain if Blofeld is some egomaniac, who wants to shape the world in his vision. So far, it's all about money.
And they are playing God, shaping events and plots, involving life and death, changing the fundamentals of a country.
They've got people in many places, dictating and advising powerful people.

Quantum are in it for the money. Previous Bond villains were in it mostly for power. Not all, but most.

Ugh. Rosamund Pike always feels like a recruitment consultant or management consultant in all her films. A cold and somewhat stuffy businesswoman working her way up her profession. I don't like her.

 

[Rodrigo90]

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

For the villains motives, let's go through them one-by-one.

DN - Money.
FRWL - Partially money and partially revenge on Bond for what he did in DN.
GF - Money.
TB - Money.
YOLT - Money.
OHMSS - A pardon for past crimes.
DAF - Money.
LALD - Money.
TMWTGG - Money.
TSWLM - Wipe out most of humanity and start a new civilization under the sea.
MR - Wipe out most of humanity except for a select few on board a massive space station which will later repopulate the Earth in future generations.
FYEO - Money.
OP - Two villains. Kahn wants money. Orlov wants the Soviet takeover of Western Europe.
AVTAK - Money.
TLD - Money.
LTK - Money.
GE - Money.
TND - Money.
TWINE - Money.
DAD - The conquest of South Korea.
CR - Money.
QOS - Money.
SF - Revenge on M.

Of 23 films, all but five and a half are about the villain getting more money, whether it be ransom (ex. Thunderball), destroying their competitors (ex. Goldfinger), because they were paid to do something (ex. You Only Live Twice), or even outright robbery (ex. Goldeneye).

 

[Dark Raven]

Don't worry, I did like your mother in QOS.

 

[Loki882]

A scene that I'd love to see:

(Bond is brought to meet the mysterious leader of Quantum (maybe he's captured or maybe he goes willingly) by badass intimidating henchman Batista. This global criminal organization with tentacles everywhere).

He walks into the room, and sees Lea Seydoux sitting in a chair waiting for him.

Bond turns to Batista: "You take order from her?"

Batista: "Yes, she scares me."

 

[regwec]

Perhaps the next movie should have a conspiracy of senior European politicians that hatch a plan to set up a supreme inter-state government that controls its client states' budgets and legal systems without any real scrutiny or democratic controls.

Oh...

 

[Dark Raven]

For the villains motives, let's go through them one-by-one.

DN - Money.
FRWL - Partially money and partially revenge on Bond for what he did in DN.
GF - Money.
TB - Money.
YOLT - Money.
OHMSS - A pardon for past crimes.
DAF - Money.
LALD - Money.
TMWTGG - Money.
TSWLM - Wipe out most of humanity and start a new civilization under the sea.
MR - Wipe out most of humanity except for a select few on board a massive space station which will later repopulate the Earth in future generations.
FYEO - Money.
OP - Two villains. Kahn wants money. Orlov wants the Soviet takeover of Western Europe.
AVTAK - Money.
TLD - Money.
LTK - Money.
GE - Money.
TND - Money.
TWINE - Money.
DAD - The conquest of South Korea.
CR - Money.
QOS - Money.
SF - Revenge on M.

Of 23 films, all but five and a half are about the villain getting more money, whether it be ransom (ex. Thunderball), destroying their competitors (ex. Goldfinger), because they were paid to do something (ex. You Only Live Twice), or even outright robbery (ex. Goldeneye).

I don't think they're solely about money. Goldfinger's plot also involved a sense of power and huge ego in that he would be able to take pride in having the monopoly on gold reserves. Goldfinger in the book might've been more purely about money (he wanted to steal the gold from Fort Knox) but if money was all that movie Goldfinger wanted, he could've found some other way to get rich. It's a lot to do with lust for power and the sense of control that having the monopoly would give him.

Elektra King uses a similar plot to control the oil reserves, but she's also trying to prove herself to her father (even though she had him killed earlier).

In fact, Max Zorin uses that same idea as well, and again has a similar motivation of wanting power and control over Silicon Valley.

And the same with Elliot Carver. He wants his newspaper to be the top source of news.

It's kind of like these athletes/ Olympians etc. Are they competing purely for the money? Isn't it partly the prestige and status that goes with being the top dog? Sometimes the money pales in comparison to winning the prize and knowing they are the best.

 

[Loki882]

And Le Chiffre's motivation for most of the movie is more about self-preservation. He wants money, but only because he knows that his clients will kill him if he doesn't get it.

 

[chamber-music]

Elliot Carver wanted to be the world's top media baron. Carver was driven more by narcissism and his own over inflated ego than money.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Blofeld only wanted a just world for Cats.

He later married Hanah Barbara and co-created Swat Kats.

 

[The Batman]

The first Bond girl I truly fell in love with

I wouldn't mind Rosamund pulling a Maude Adams and playing a new Bond Girl...maybe she could finally play Gala Brand.

 

[Rodrigo90]

That would be pretty neat actually.

They did it with Judi Dench. She wasn't playing the same M as before. Or if she was, it was a different universe

And Adams went from a minor Bond girl to the lead in Octopussy. It didn't bother anyone.

And I think Pike would be great with Craig.

 

[Loki882]

Btw, DAD was Pike's first film role, in case anyone here didn't know.

 

[Rodrigo90]

So they should redeem themselves by giving her a role in a better Bond movie!

 

[Dark Raven]

How about giving Gemma Arterton a better role instead? Pike had enough screentime. Gemma had probably only about as much as Maud Adams in TMWTGG. Gemma's only purpose was really to get her nude body covered in oil.

Gemma could've been Moneypenny if Naomie Harris weren't cast, and if she hadn't played in QOS.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

Here's a crazy idea, now stay with me on this because this is a bonkers one: How about a new actress?