James Bond In Skyfall - - Part 11

[A Necessary Evil]

this is a question to everyone (but especially to ChickenScratch)

As I am someone who is a huge fan of the Bond books, but still haven't seen that many Bond films (I've seen Skyfall, QoS, Casino Royale, Goldeneye and loved them, I've also seen TWINE, DAD, TND and was pretty meh about them, I've also seen quite a few of the older ones growing up but cant remember much of them other than LALD which I hated because it was so far removed from the book and OHMSS but can only remember the ending as I must have been very young) which Bond films would you recommend I watched first

By going off the ones you haven't seen?

Goldfinger, From Russia W/Love; Living Daylights, Dr. No, and much like Hunter said, TMWTGG (though for a remake. Also, Moonraker for that very reason). It's been a while, so I'm gonna give AVTAK another rewatch. Also, got my tickets today.

 

[A Necessary Evil]

God, this soundtrack is great! So much flavor and diversity. And he isn't afraid to use the bond theme. He has used it in various ways in 3 of the 5 tracks ive listened to so far. Loving the electronics too.

I enjoyed Newman's work - but overall was slightly disappointed in it. I'm picking up the album, and repeated listens do tend to make it better, but I was expecting more. 3/5.

 

[childeroland]

this is a question to everyone (but especially to ChickenScratch)

As I am someone who is a huge fan of the Bond books, but still haven't seen that many Bond films (I've seen Skyfall, QoS, Casino Royale, Goldeneye and loved them, I've also seen TWINE, DAD, TND and was pretty meh about them, I've also seen quite a few of the older ones growing up but cant remember much of them other than LALD which I hated because it was so far removed from the book and OHMSS but can only remember the ending as I must have been very young) which Bond films would you recommend I watched first

Goldfinger -- the first Bond film with many of the tropes and codifier of the (or a) basic structure of a Bond film. Also the best in the series before or after...

From Russia With Love -- One of the best Bond girls, one of the best henchmen/women, one of the best fight scenes in the series (the train), maybe the definitive Bond seduction scene, first appearance of Blofeld, perhaps the best script for a Bond film.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

this is a question to everyone (but especially to ChickenScratch)

As I am someone who is a huge fan of the Bond books, but still haven't seen that many Bond films (I've seen Skyfall, QoS, Casino Royale, Goldeneye and loved them, I've also seen TWINE, DAD, TND and was pretty meh about them, I've also seen quite a few of the older ones growing up but cant remember much of them other than LALD which I hated because it was so far removed from the book and OHMSS but can only remember the ending as I must have been very young) which Bond films would you recommend I watched first

You want the first five Connery films, OHMSS, TSWLM, FYEO, and the Dalton films. If you want it narrowed down a bit more, I'd start with the Connery films in order. Those are the best Bond films ever made.

 

[Marvolo]

I enjoyed Newman's work - but overall was slightly disappointed in it. I'm picking up the album, and repeated listens do tend to make it better, but I was expecting more. 3/5.

It started out great and kind of dwindled about halfway though. My favorite parts are the signature Newman moments, but they are few and far between. The bits I do like blow Arnold's work away imo. I especially love the ethnic and electronic sounds. The rest is on average with Arnold or generic. I really wanted to hear one of those strong rising moment that Newman sticks in his scores, but I haven't really found that yet. I doubt he will ever hit the power he hit when Andy reaches freedom in Shawshank. Good god that moment is a powerhouse.

On its own, I would concur with you and give it a 3/5 over all. Will need to hear it in the movie, as well.

 

[A Necessary Evil]

It started out great and kind of dwindled about halfway though. My favorite parts are the signature Newman moments, but they are few and far between. The bits I do like blow Arnold's work away imo. The rest is on average with Arnold or generic. On its own I would concure and give it a 3/5. Will need to hear it in the movie, as well.

My major complaints - A lack of development of themes. There's a bit in "Grand Baazar, Istanbul" [3:20-3:52], would have been perfect..and we hear it once more throughout the score. That's it. I'm really intrigued how "Skyfall" will play inside the movie itself.

Here's my ratings on the score as a whole :

Spoiler

Grand Bazaar, Istanbul****
Voluntary Retirement****
New Digs****
Severine***
Brave New World****
Shanghai Drive***
Jellyfish**
Silhouette***
Modigliani**
Day Wasted***
Quartermaster****
Someone Usually Dies***
Komodo Dragon***
The Bloody Shot****
Enjoying Death***
The Chimera****
Close Shave**
Health & Safety**
Granborough Road***
Tennyson**
Enquiry**
Breadcrumbs**.*
Skyfall****
Kill Them First**
Welcome To Scotland****
She's Mine***
The Moors***
Deep Water**
Mother**
Adrenaline**
Old Dog, New Tricks***

Overall it's not bad, but the album is overly long, with (what seems like) too much filler, and feels more like a typical action-spy score than a Bond one. It's not as bad as the disco music for "The Spy who loved me", nor as hastily/mediocrely (though, average at best) composed as the score for goldeneye. But it doesn't reach the heights of Arnold's work for Casino Royale, Quantum of Solace, or TWINE. But I will agree, we need to hear how it plays. It may be a score I don't love, but does wonders within the movie itself.

 

[DKDetective]

You want the first five Connery films, OHMSS, TSWLM, FYEO, and the Dalton films. If you want it narrowed down a bit more, I'd start with the Connery films in order. Those are the best Bond films ever made.

Agreed except for TSWLM and YOLT. As someone who is also a fan of the literary Bond first and foremost, I don't like TSWLM and YOLT at all. All they really have in common with the books are the titles and, in terms of tone and characterization, they are nothing like Fleming's Bond.

Spidey-dude, I think you will love Licence to Kill. Dalton really has done the the best job so far of capturing Fleming's Bond in terms of both acting and appearance. (when I picture the literary Bond in my mind, it's Dalton with shorter, greased hair and Bond's cheek scar) The film is a great combination of plots and characters from Fleming's Live and Let Die, The Hildebrand Rarity, and The Man with the Golden Gun. The film's only downfall is 80's fashion trends.

 

[Bruce Malone]

There's been a trend of bond actors overstaying their welcome and their final film being their weakest. Connery, Moore and Brosnan show this and i suppose dalton is debatable, only 2 films and all.

Do you think there is going to be any intention for craig to break this trend and leave on a high note?

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

I'd include Dalton to an extent because License to Kill isn't as good as The Living Daylights, personally. License at times felt like an episode of Miami Vice, the villain is too much of a small time guy, and a lot of times the fun gets sucked out of the movie for no reason. It's too serious at times.

 

[A Necessary Evil]

We'll see after Bond 25.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I'd include Dalton to an extent because License to Kill isn't as good as The Living Daylights, personally. License at times felt like an episode of Miami Vice, the villain is too much of a small time guy, and a lot of times the fun gets sucked out of the movie for no reason. It's too serious at times.

I actually like LTK better. In part because Robert Davi is a much more effective baddie than Jeroen Krabbe & Joe Don Baker. The other big reason is that The Living Daylights doesn't really know what it wants to be because for a long time they didn't exactly know who would be playing Bond. There is some goofiness left over from the Roger Moore films that just doesn't work with Dalton. For LTK they knew what they had and the darker, edgier film fits Dalton a lot better.

Truth be told, neither is fantastic. But they are probably in the 11-15 range if I was ranking Bond films. Which I will probably do once I'm done re-watching them to prepare for Skyfall. I do like LTK more though.

There's been a trend of bond actors overstaying their welcome and their final film being their weakest. Connery, Moore and Brosnan show this and i suppose dalton is debatable, only 2 films and all.

Do you think there is going to be any intention for craig to break this trend and leave on a high note?

Craig has his work cut out for him if he wants to make one worse than Quantum of Solace.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

Yeah I agree that neither is fantastic. I actually have the living Daylights at #9 and license to kill at 14. I believe.

And I do agree that Davi's a better villain and there is some leftover Roger Moore silliness in TLD

 

[jmc]

I often wonder what the series would have been like had they been first made today.

 

[Octoberist]

I often wonder what the series would have been like had they been first made today.

Like Alex Cross, John Carter, Jack Reacher or Jack Ryan..the first one would be called 'James Bond'.

 

[Homer J. Fong]

Licence to Kill is surer of itself and surer of what separates Dalton's Bond from the ones before him, but there's nothing in it that approaches the silliness of any Roger Moore movie (with the exception of For Your Eyes Only, I guess, which is the most down-to-earth Moore movie - although that one does have that bit with the Thatchers at the end). Parker, I'm certainly with you about the "Miami Vice" vibe with parts of LTK, and the villain being too small-scale, and the absence of fun for so much of it, and those are my problems with the movie; it doesn't really feel like a Bond story, it feels like just about every other action movie of the time. But I don't really begrudge them going grim and gritty - I think it was the right thing to do at that time - and Sanchez is a very good villain, so even though I tend to enjoy a larger-scale baddie more, the quality of that character and performance elevates the whole thing. TLD and LTK are right in the middle of my list, and LTK is right above TLD.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

How quickly we forget the Ninja scene in LTK when talking about how silly it is. Forget the fact that there are ninjas there at all, the scene itself is cheesy as hell.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

For Your Eyes Only also had that terrible skater character. I liked the small scale of For Your Eyes Only, which was needed after The Spy Who Loved Me and Moonraker.

I don't find either Dalton movie to be bad though. They're both well made movies.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Dalton's films just feel generic. He is a solid Bond, but the material just isn't there. That doesn't make them all that bad in the Bond film context though. There is a huge drop off from the top 7-8 films.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

Yeah, there is. I feel like these movies are the essential 8 (with 4, 5, 6 all interchangeable):

1. From Russia With Love
2. Goldeneye
3. Goldfinger
4. On Her Majesty's Secret Service
5. The Spy Who Loved Me
6. Casino Royale
7. Thunderball
8. Dr. No

And then there's a drop off after that.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

Goldfinger -- the first Bond film with many of the tropes and codifier of the (or a) basic structure of a Bond film. Also the best in the series before or after...

From Russia With Love -- One of the best Bond girls, one of the best henchmen/women, one of the best fight scenes in the series (the train), maybe the definitive Bond seduction scene, first appearance of Blofeld, perhaps the best script for a Bond film.

Tatiana in my opinion is the hottest Bond Girl.

 

[A Necessary Evil]

Anyone been able to find the 007 fragrance set? I can't.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Yeah, there is. I feel like these movies are the essential 8 (with 4, 5, 6 all interchangeable):

1. From Russia With Love
2. Goldeneye
3. Goldfinger
4. On Her Majesty's Secret Service
5. The Spy Who Loved Me
6. Casino Royale
7. Thunderball
8. Dr. No

And then there's a drop off after that.

There is Connery's first 4, OHMSS, Goldeneye and Craig's first two films. Depending on the day I may or may not include TSWLM. Watching it on television a couple of days ago, I am going with no right now.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

I love how The Spy Who Loved Me pretty much is the apotheosis of Bond movies and includes many intertexual references to the Bond movies before it and revels in the craziness and silliness that Bond movies were known up to.

Hopefully Skyfall can be added. The reviews have me incredibly excited!

 

[Octoberist]

I've got a soft spot for You Only Live Twice

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

Same here. I like it (I have it at #10). It's the most beautiful looking Bond movie (maybe until Skyfall gets released), and they did an excellent job at giving Japan a unique mystique about it. I also liked that 99% of the movie has Bond in Japan. Also, the battle with the sumo wrestler was pretty awesome too.