Jared Leto IS The Joker

[regwec]

The Joker, your brittle, abrasive defence of any perceived sleight on TDK is unnecessary. It's obvious enough that Rodrigo is talking about his perception of the character. It's hardly unfounded, since the root of the evil clown as a concept is the subversion of an "innocent" theme.

 

[The Joker]

It's what he does all the time, doesn't he?

What putting a Joker smile on someone/something you mean? He did that several times in TDK. He did it to the copycat Batman and hung him outside the Mayor's window with a Joker card pinned to his body. He did it to several of the "Harvey Dent" victims. He did it to Anthony Michael Hall when he was making him deliver that grotesque news report to Gotham while hanging upside down etc

The Joker, your brittle, abrasive defence of any perceived sleight on TDK is unnecessary. It's obvious enough that Rodrigo is talking about his perception of the character. It's hardly unfounded, since the root of the evil clown as a concept is the subversion of an "innocent" theme.

regwec, asking someone to back up their opinion is not brittle or abrasive. Don't be so thin skinned. It was not obvious to me that he was referring to the perception of the character. That's why I asked for examples of where he supposedly always turns "anything innocent" into something nasty.

 

[Greens]

Heath's Joker didn't have any "gags" because he wouldn't go out of his way to design them. In Batman 89, Joker had all of these perfectly designed gadgets even though he JUST turned into the Joker. I don't mind, but it's not very realistic. That's my take on it.

 

[AnneFan]

I think there's elements where Ledger's Joker took the normal and innocent and made it disturbing. For example:

He took a regular pencil and turned it into an impaling weapon of death.
He set a firetruck alight, showing a twisted juxtaposition.
Took a friendly message and corrupted it - 'Slaughter is the best medicine.'

 

[Rodrigo90]

The Joker, your brittle, abrasive defence of any perceived sleight on TDK is unnecessary. It's obvious enough that Rodrigo is talking about his perception of the character. It's hardly unfounded, since the root of the evil clown as a concept is the subversion of an "innocent" theme.

What putting a Joker smile on someone/something you mean? He did that several times in TDK. He did it to the copycat Batman and hung him outside the Mayor's window with a Joker card pinned to his body. He did it to several of the "Harvey Dent" victims. He did it to Anthony Michael Hall when he was making him deliver that grotesque news report to Gotham while hanging upside down etc

Something like that.

But I mean taking a sideshow carnival, something spooky, but innocent, then turning them into his cronies, doing his evil bidding. He gets kicks out of perverting things in his warped image.
Not just visually, but in spirit.
Like he did Harley. Taking a doctor and then turning her into a mental patient herself. There's a disturbed sense of irony in there.
Joker is a guy who will go into a school, tie all the teachers to chairs, like students, then have the kids go around causing havoc.

Even his words here, which Grant Morrison had the right idea about, are alluded to this concept

Oh, yes! Fill the churches with dirty thoughts! Introduce honesty to the White House! Write letters in dead languages to people you've never met! Paint filthy words on the foreheads of children! Burn your credit cards and wear high heels! Asylum doors stand open! Fill the suburbs with murder and rape! Divine madness! Let there be ecstasy, ecstasy in the streets! Laugh and the world laughs with you!

Everything, innocent and normal or whatever, he'll turn topsy turvy in his wicked style

 

[Rodrigo90]

I think there's elements where Ledger's Joker took the normal and innocent and made it disturbing. For example:

He took a regular pencil and turned it into an impaling weapon of death.
He set a firetruck alight, showing a twisted juxtaposition.
Took a friendly message and corrupted it - 'Slaughter is the best medicine.'

Exactly. Something normal, he messes up.

 

[The Joker]

But I mean taking a sideshow carnival, something spooky, but innocent, then turning them into his cronies, doing his evil bidding. He gets kicks out of perverting things in his warped image.
Not just visually, but in spirit.
Like he did Harley. Taking a doctor and then turning her into a mental patient herself. There's a disturbed sense of irony in there.
Joker is a guy who will go into a school, tie all the teachers to chairs, like students, then have the kids go around causing havoc.

Thanks for the clarification on what you meant. All I was asking was for you to back up what you were saying.

In that case TDK's Joker comes up trumps even more in that regard. He turned White Knight Harvey Dent into Two Face. He turned a mob of Gothamites into a bunch of crazed trigger happy lunatics trying to kill Reese. He used a mobile phone sewn into the stomach of one of his loony henchmen to blow up half of the GCPD. He turned a circus truck into a (S)Laughter is the best medicine vehicle. He did the best magic trick ever with a pencil. He used the Commissioner Loeb's bottle of whiskey to kill him. He used a pile of money as a twisted irony to burn the mob's accountant to death. He used Gotham's most famous newscaster to deliver his threat to the city while hanging upside down with a Joker smile painted on his face etc.

TDK's Joker was all about turning the innocent into something nasty.

Even his words in, which Grant Morrison had the right idea about, are alluded to this concept

Everything, innocent and normal, he'll turn topsy turvy

Wise words from Morrison. After all he himself said he saw a lot of his Joker in Heath's performance:

http://splashpage.mtv.com/2008/08/0...-morrison-opens-up-heath-ledgers-joker-diary/

 

[Rodrigo90]

Thanks for the clarification on what you meant. All I was asking was for you to back up what you were saying.

In that case TDK's Joker comes up trumps even more in that regard. He turned White Knight Harvey Dent into Two Face. He turned a mob of Gothamites into a bunch of crazed trigger happy lunatics trying to kill Reese. He used a mobile phone sewn into the stomach of one of his loony henchmen to blow up half of the GCPD. He turned a circus truck into a (S)Laughter is the best medicine vehicle. He did the best magic trick ever with a pencil. He used the Commissioner Loeb's bottle of whiskey to kill him. He used a pile of money as a twisted irony to burn the mob's accountant to death. He used Gotham's most famous newscaster to deliver his threat to the city while hanging upside down with a Joker smile painted on his face etc.

TDK's Joker was all about turning the innocent into something nasty.



Wise words from Morrison. After all he himself said he saw a lot of his Joker in Heath's performance:

http://splashpage.mtv.com/2008/08/0...-morrison-opens-up-heath-ledgers-joker-diary/

I think what I was getting at is the same thing in nature

Heath did take life, and attempted to mold it into his image. He did it more subtly, whereas I was thinking of the more in your face comic Joker, you know?

Like the examples AnneFan gave, I totally missed the significance of their twisted representation.

 

[Greens]

Don't forget the rainfall of Joker playing cards when the judge's car exploded.

 

[The Joker]

I think what I was getting at is the same thing in nature

Heath did take life, and attempted to mold it into his image. He did it more subtly, whereas I was thinking of the more in your face comic Joker, you know?

Like the examples AnneFan gave, I totally missed the significance of their twisted representation.

Yeah, you want it more OTT for the next version which is the best way to go to distinguish Leto's Joker from Heath's. If Leto's Joker is to be successful he needs to feel as unique as possible from all previous Jokers that have been done.

The success of reinterpreting a character lies heavily on doing something that has not been done before. Otherwise you're just retreading old ground.

Don't forget the rainfall of Joker playing cards when the judge's car exploded.

That was great. And the little "Up" message the Judge had in her envelope lol.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Don't forget the rainfall of Joker playing cards when the judge's car exploded.

That too

 

[Greens]

That was great. And the little "Up" message the Judge had in her envelope lol.

That montage leading up to the party scene is one of the best moments in any Batman film.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Yeah, you want it more OTT for the next version which is the best way to go to distinguish Leto's Joker from Heath's. If Leto's Joker is to be successful he needs to feel as unique as possible from all previous Jokers that have been done.

The success of reinterpreting a character lies heavily on doing something that has not been done before. Otherwise you're just retreading old ground.



That was great. And the little "Up" message the Judge had in her envelope lol.

Exactly
Jared, I think he should be a little more cartoony in nature. Or at least his sense of fun should be more OTT.
Say like in the TKJ, he buys the amusement park, then he warps it in his messed up humor.
Somebody goes to sit down, they'll find a jagged metal spike sticking up in the middle of the seat
Somebody goes for a drink of soda out of the can, it's actually acid, with a warning that it'll rot your teeth!
Dolls of children in states of mimicking injury and accidents scattered everywhere

Things like that

 

[Greens]

Exactly
Jared, I think he should be a little more cartoony in nature. Or at least his sense of fun should be more OTT.
Say like in the TKJ, he buys the amusement park, then he warps it in his messed up humor.
Somebody goes to sit down, they'll find a jagged metal spike sticking up in the middle of the seat
Somebody goes for a drink of soda out of the can, it's actually acid, with a warning that it'll rot your teeth!
Dolls of children in states of mimicking injury and accidents scattered everywhere

Things like that

Or he shoots the commissioner's daughter, strips her, takes photos and shows them to her father on a demented carnival ride.

Oh wait, that actually happenedt:

 

[Rodrigo90]

That was a fun time for good old Jimbo!

 

[Jumpin' Jack]

This picture of Leto is just asking to be manipped. Tried it myself, failed miserably. That smile

 

[Rodrigo90]

I agree, it would be memorable if The Joker and his mob resembled a kind of grotesque carnival.

I have to say that the Slip Knot stuff seems rather to contrived for my tastes. It's a fine distinction, but I would prefer to have the sense that the gang's depraved enthusiasms are incidentally scary, rather than that they have sat around together designing scary clown masks.

Back to this, I agree.

The masks would be cool to see, but what is more disturbing is that distortion of humanity mixed in with gross physical perversion. Joker accompanied by the sideshow freaks is far more disturbing than thugs wearing masks.
It's also cruel, which fits with Joker's tastes. Seeing Batman having to do battle with and maim physically deformed people would be humorous to the Joker and it would probably disturb us to see.

And the image would fit better if Leto uses Conrad Veidt physical influence.

 

[Mrs. Wayne]

Or he shoots the commissioner's daughter, strips her, takes photos and shows them to her father on a demented carnival ride.

Oh wait, that actually happenedt:

What a great comic.

 

[regwec]

regwec, asking someone to back up their opinion is not brittle or abrasive. Don't be so thin skinned. It was not obvious to me that he was referring to the perception of the character. That's why I asked for examples of where he supposedly always turns "anything innocent" into something nasty.

Fair enough, I just thought you came across as a touch flinty.

TDK used The Joker to great effect as a villain who appears at will and wreaks havoc, but I think it would be interesting to see something of this theatrical character "behind the scenes". In Dark Detective we were shown The Joker's creepy, shambling suburban house. I would love to see him effectively "working from home" in a movie.

 

[Astro13Zombie]

What a great comic.

yep

 

[Rodrigo90]

Fair enough, I just thought you came across as a touch flinty.

TDK used The Joker to great effect as a villain who appears at will and wreaks havoc, but I think it would be interesting to see something of this theatrical character "behind the scenes". In Dark Detective we were shown The Joker's creepy, shambling suburban house. I would love to see him effectively "working from home" in a movie.

And that's the normality aspect. He takes a normal, suburban family home, and just completely gives it his psychotic makeover. That in itself is perverting innocence into his form of mockery.
It's almost like a coping mechanism, because he's not doing that for show.

 

[Greens]

This picture of Leto is just asking to be manipped. Tried it myself, failed miserably. That smile

Mine's not very good, either

 

[Rodrigo90]

The last I made was excellent!

 

[NoLaNitE007]

No I mean the poor girls who were hit on by Frodo. Sarcasm in case that didn't come across clear. Actors hit on girls in clubs and at parties all the time. Especially the younger ones. It's not a terrible crime. They're big girls who can handle when a guy hits on them. But most actors don't get into brawls with other actors at award shows like Leto did.

Frodo to my knowledge is no D-bag. I've never heard any serious bad things about him. Heard plenty about Leto though. If someone hit on my girl or my friend I'd tell them they were taken or not interested. I wouldn't attack the guy unless he got physical or wouldn't get lost. Violence is always the last resort.

I don't hate Leto. He's not the first celeb to be a D-bag to fans. I hate that kind of behaviour but I don't hate him. I think he's a good actor and a good choice for the Joker. I just think he's a prat for behaving like that. FYI you don't need to be personally wronged by someone to dislike them.

Don't get huffy puffy upset over Leto.

 

[Two-Face]

Add more green Rod.