Superman Returns Jesus Christ Superman -- The Messiah of Metropolis?

[Isildur´s Heir]

Who's Isildur???

Aragorn´s father

 

[explode7]

???

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

Did you know that the Hero's Journey is based off of Jesus' life? There's no way around it. There's a reason why they call it The Greatest Story Ever Told. Jesus is everywhere, whether you want to deny him or not. But that doesn't mean you have to purposefully seek Him to degrade Him in a SHH forums.

It´s easier to call it THE FIRST STORY EVER TOLD, and, has the first story, every single "crap" can be traced to the Bible and Jesus and whatever.
That doesn´t mean it has anything to do with it.
So, every hero´s journey is based on Jesus´s life?
So, if tomorrow a cop, goes in a "journey" after a criminal, is his life based on Jesus too?
In WWII, was every single men and women that fought Hitler and the Nazis, based on Jesus too?
I´m positive that there were hero´s journey´s years before the coming of Crist.

Tolkien didn't like his stories being allegorical of todays world, or in his case, in yesterdays world. People wanted to make the Ring, Saruman, and Saron look like Hitler and his regime and that wasn't Tolkein's purpose. But he did make certain characters and places in his stories directly parallel to what his interests were. Gandolf and Aragorn were two Jesus figures. Numenor is Middle-earth's Atlantis. We can go on and on.

I don´t get it, but, what about Gandalf and Aragorn being two Jesus figures?
If Jesus is as old as time, it´s fairly normal to something be based on it, even indirectly and unconsciously.
Besides, i´m sorry, but you just read too much into things...

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

???

Lord of the Rings

 

[Steelsheen]

Did you know that the Hero's Journey is based off of Jesus' life? There's no way around it. There's a reason why they call it The Greatest Story Ever Told. Jesus is everywhere, whether you want to deny him or not. But that doesn't mean you have to purposefully seek Him to degrade Him in a SHH forums.

excuse me? where in my post did it say that i degrade Jesus? can you read it again please? you know what, i'll quote it for you:

and like Tolkien, i dont like allegories drawn between Superman, Aragorn, Frodo, Anakin or any other fictitious character to religous figures either. it just doesnt feel right. there is a reason why religous figures are held with that level of respect.

does that sound like i'm degrading religous figures like Jesus Christ? or the Pope? or the Saints or any other important figures of other religion? i regard them with so much respect that i dont want them to be compared with something i regard as pedestrian. no matter how much i love my superheroes and heroes of literature thats just truly what they are: figment of Man's imagination. Jesus Christ is not a figment of Man's imagination. he was real. he made a real ultimate sacrfice for all of Humanity at the point where we least deserved it. that is why Jesus Christ cannot be compared to someone like Superman or Aragorn or Frodo or Gandalf or any other literary figures specially if the authors of said characters doesnt like the idea themselves. you can say that these characters were inspired from religous figures, even real life human beings, but to start correlating fictitious characters to religous beings doesnt feel right to me. because what's keeping the next guy/ group from forming a religous order on this fictional character? you think that's a long shot? UK folks have told me that there is an order-- a church-- that is built on the philosophies of the Jedi Knights from Star Wars.

Tolkien didn't like his stories being allegorical of todays world, or in his case, in yesterdays world. People wanted to make the Ring, Saruman, and Saron look like Hitler and his regime and that wasn't Tolkein's purpose. But he did make certain characters and places in his stories directly parallel to what his interests were. Gandolf and Aragorn were two Jesus figures. Numenor is Middle-earth's Atlantis. We can go on and on.

dude, if Tolkien's letters on this matter wasnt just so damn long to type up i'm gonna post it right here. if you're an LOTR buff then it would be wise to invest in The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien book, its all there, explaining why this character or that character was written the way it was and if there are correlations to real life people, religous figures and all that. he isnt denying that his religion, culture and upbringing influences his writings-- i mean where else will authors draw from, but that book explains why he doesnt like the allegories (because its prone to misinterpretations-- like Gandalf is actually more Angel than Jesus) and where he actually drew inspiration from when creating said characters.

 

[Steelsheen]

Who's Isildur???

Aragorn´s father

dude, you dont know whom you got your name from?

Aragorn(II) Elessar, the ruler of the reunited Kingdoms of Gondor and Arnor, is the child of Arathorn II (father) and Gilraen (mother). Arathorn II was descended from Isildur's youngest son Valandil. Isildur is the man who cut off the Ring of Power from Sauron's hand during the Siege of Barad-Dur in Mordor (in the movie it was moved to Dagorlad-- the battle fields outside of Mordor). Isildur is also the King of Gondor and Arnor before dying from an ambush. as time went on the kingdom went into disarray and Gondor and Arnor was divided. since then there were predictions that "Isildur's Heir" will defeat Sauron once and for all, unite the two lands and will usher in the Golden Age of the Rule of Men. a prediction so long in the making it became a myth to many-- until Aragorn Elessar came around.

so Isildur's Heir= Aragorn Elessar

 

[Worldbuilder]

The Christ imagry was my favorite part of the movie.

The power of the Son comes from that of the Father

Amen

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

dude, you dont know whom you got your name from?

Aragorn(II) Elessar, the ruler of the reunited Kingdoms of Gondor and Arnor, is the child of Arathorn II (father) and Gilraen (mother). Arathorn II was descended from Isildur's youngest son Valandil. Isildur is the man who cut off the Ring of Power from Sauron's hand during the Siege of Barad-Dur in Mordor (in the movie it was moved to Dagorlad-- the battle fields outside of Mordor). Isildur is also the King of Gondor and Arnor before dying from an ambush. as time went on the kingdom went into disarray and Gondor and Arnor was divided. since then there were predictions that "Isildur's Heir" will defeat Sauron once and for all, unite the two lands and will usher in the Golden Age of the Rule of Men. a prediction so long in the making it became a myth to many-- until Aragorn Elessar came around.

so Isildur's Heir= Aragorn Elessar

You are absolutely right
And i´m utterly wrong

I knew he was the son of Arathorn, it is said in the movie, and it´s written in the novels (which i´ve read), but, i basically forgot for a moment.
When i was writting that Isildur was Aragorn´s father, something didn´t felt quite right, more even because to be called Isildur´s HEIR, points to a ancestor and not the direct father.

 

[Wams]

Showing Superman with a Christ analogy was the dumbest thing Donner/Singer could do. It automatically drives people away from the movie. Especially when it's done so obviously.
The X-Men movies handled the whole mutant-gay connection at least in a more subtle way.

It didn't push people away from Donnor's film.
Second the Christ "type" figure Singer was invoking was more the
Da vinci code Christ that had babies and did not die for the world.
Ultimately no one can live up to Jesus in real live or in fiction.
So I don't mind the moral high standard that Supes is compared to
Christ except the terrible idea of him have a child out of wedlock.
Supes is not that guy.
His parents taught him better.
He honors his Mother and Father.
It actualy makes him a better character to read and write if he is
such a high moral character and everyone else is grown away
from that way of being.
He is steady and constant like a rock.
The reason we look UP to him and want to be like him.
A Super-man in always.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

EVERYBODY should read this book:

Secondly, I've come to the conclusion that what seperates Superman from the other superheroes is they are in service to Good (as opposed to evil), whereas Superman embodies Good itslelf.

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

People, i beg you, stop comparing Superman to Jesus...please, after a while, it just becames stupid.

No one can run away from the fact that Superman´s origin is based on Jesus one, that´s a given.
Superman comes from the stars (Heaven), in a spaceship (Star of Bethlehem),send to us by Jor-El (God), and raised by a family with no children (Immaculate Conception).
But, that´s it, there is where any parallel ends...
And, if the Bible is the First Story Ever Told, and the most read one, isn´t it possible that Siegel and Shuster have read it, and drew ideas from it?
Besides, Superman is based, not on the Bible but on Friedrich Nietzsche's work...

Superman, the all-American 20th-century comic-book hero, takes his name from the 19th-century German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche's term for the ideal superior man, which is Übermensch in German.

The thing of Superman/Jesus is the exact same one as the "Truth, Justice, and the American Way."
Just like The "American Way" bit is totally outdated (thank god it Singer had the brains to take it away), because it deals with the all Great Depression and post-WWII; so is the Superman/Jesus connection.
Stop living in the past and welcome to the 21st century....SUPERMAN IS NOT JESUS IN A CAPE!

And Kevin, that book, i haven´t read it, so i might be saying crap (which is most likely), but that´s a simplistic way at seeing things.
To say that every story is the same, just rewritten diferently, is the same as to say life is all the same, just lived by diferent people.
In a general angle, everyone loves someone, gets married, starts a familiy, have a job....so, how could stories be all that diferent from another, when life isn´t?
The diference is how people handle things and life their lives.
It´s like the all Superman/Jesus discussion, just because they had a similar begining, doesn´t make them the same, far from it.
It´s like saying all superheroes are the same, just with diferent powers and faces, but they all fight the good fight...
If one belives that, things become meaningless....

 

[The Kid]

SUPERMAN IS NOT JESUS









GOKU IS

Really think about it. How many times has he died and ressurrected? Huh?

And he can heal people with magic beans and he can perform miracles and he creates a "spirit bomb" Hello!? Holy "spirit" anyone?

I used to draw goku back in elementary school and guess who I copied to get goku's face just right? Jesus.

Therefore I conclude that if there's anyone who's more like a christ figure from a lost civilization, it's Goku, not that funky farmboy in tights. And he's totally a great father to his child unlike supes.

Thank you for reading.

 

[vibeke_T]

ok people...wtf did singer himself say? he said he made his movie to portray supes in a christ-like manner. so...there we go. no debate. right?

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Even though i dont believe in Jesus or God anymore (or at least not as much as i used to) i also LOVED the Christ parallels in this movie. Making Superman a god like figure just adds to his appeal as a Superhero for me. And i just LOVED how they portrayed him in the movie.

 

[The Kid]

ok people...wtf did singer himself say? he said he made his movie to portray supes in a christ-like manner. so...there we go. no debate. right?

That's what I said I guess a page and some posts ago. It's like talking to your own butt.

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

ok people...wtf did singer himself say? he said he made his movie to portray supes in a christ-like manner. so...there we go. no debate. right?

That just shows how wrong he was for the job he took.
Also, that shows that he failed at even that, because, if you want to make him portraited as Christ-like, you have a story were that really shines, and you have the reaction of the world to his returning, and see if the world really see him that way, or still does....

All you have in the movie is 3 or 4 ridiculous in-your-face scenes, not even a shred of subtlety.
It was just lacking a fricking a big red arrow, pointing torwards the Man of Steel and having written in big, flashy, letters, CHRIST REFERENCE.

 

[Steelsheen]

EVERYBODY should read this book:

Secondly, I've come to the conclusion that what seperates Superman from the other superheroes is they are in service to Good (as opposed to evil), whereas Superman embodies Good itslelf.

famous book.

so what do you you say Luke Skywalker is? what about young Anakin Skywalker? because that book inspired the writing for Star Wars.




btw, many folks keep think that Superman is based on Jesus. that's a bit inaccurate. do remember that Superman was created by two Jewish youths, i dont know what their personal regard is for Jesus but i do know that the Superman they were writing had more similarities to Samson. its during the evolution of the franchise and the responisibilities of writing taken away from Siegel and Shuster that Superman took a more Christ-centric theme.

 

[vibeke_T]

That just shows how wrong he was for the job he took.
Also, that shows that he failed at even that, because, if you want to make him portraited as Christ-like, you have a story were that really shines, and you have the reaction of the world to his returning, and see if the world really see him that way, or still does....

All you have in the movie is 3 or 4 ridiculous in-your-face scenes, not even a shred of subtlety.
It was just lacking a fricking a big red arrow, pointing torwards the Man of Steel and having written in big, flashy, letters, CHRIST REFERENCE.

I thought the movie was lovely and I like Singer as a director...

 

[C. Lee]

ok people...wtf did singer himself say? he said he made his movie to portray supes in a christ-like manner. so...there we go. no debate. right?

If there's nothing to debate....then maybe the thread should be closed....but most people are not debating whether or not there were Christ references (I know some are...sue me) but they are debating whether or not they should have been done, or if they were done well......everyone go to neutral corners, and come out at the sound of the bell.






***DING DING DING***

 

[vibeke_T]

If there's nothing to debate....then maybe the thread should be closed....but most people are not debating whether or not there were Christ references (I know some are...sue me) but they are debating whether or not they should have been done, or if they were done well......everyone go to neutral corners, and come out at the sound of the bell.






***DING DING DING***

sowwy c.lee

 

[C. Lee]

No problemo...just keeping the thread going....these guys need a Nubian Goddess to show up now and then and get their blood flowing.

 

[The Kid]

famous book.

so what do you you say Luke Skywalker is? what about young Anakin Skywalker? because that book inspired the writing for Star Wars.




btw, many folks keep think that Superman is based on Jesus. that's a bit inaccurate. do remember that Superman was created by two Jewish youths, i dont know what their personal regard is for Jesus but i do know that the Superman they were writing had more similarities to Samson. its during the evolution of the franchise and the responisibilities of writing taken away from Siegel and Shuster that Superman took a more Christ-centric theme.

I sort of know a thing or two about Luke Skywalker... and he like harry potter and many other heros is forged from the same mold described by joeseph campbell. Luke is not as much a christ figure as Lucas made his father to be. Anakin is the Jesus christ of Star Wars obviously. The only thing that could make it more obvious is if he had "Christ figure" tatooed to his forehead throughout the movies.

Harry Potter's becoming more of a christ figure too in the recent books with all this talk of prophecy and "chosen one" stuff, except I think his story's not majorly patterened after christ's, it just uses more of the messiah element. But I don't know, maybe Ron will be revealed to be the chosen one... time will tell.

Well at least it's settled that Singer himself intentionally paralleled jesus christ in Returns. And awesome! There's a new forum for the sequel. I just noticed. Also...

Whether they should have been done? There's room for it imo. In STM I think they got it right. Superman is referred to as a God in Lois' poem and of course Brando talks about sending his son to let his leadership inspire humanity etc. These weren't heavy handed direct parallels to specific religious figures to me anyway. Even Robocop which of course is a christ metaphor is a good example to me of how to handle it better. I wish it wasn't made so obvious who Singer was trying to parallel, cuz it's distracting to me... and harder to relate to super-god, than super-man. What's going to happen if an actual god like Thor is brought to the big screen?

 

[vibeke_T]

No problemo...just keeping the thread going....these guys need a Nubian Goddess to show up now and then and get their blood flowing.

:heart:

 

[Fading]

As a christian myself, I've gotten used to media and pop culture taking shots at my faith. Over time you get used to it and take it in stride as they say. I just got used to turning south park to a diff channel whenever they said stuff like that, same with when Vince Mcmahon had his mock God and book himself in a match with him segments (well that and WWE sucks a bit more each week). With this though, it definetly was more of a draw back, I heard the hints but went in to see this thinking it'd be subtle. But ya, it was basically slapped in your face, him putting his arms out like a cross righ in front of the camera, to him being stabbed with the 'spear', to the death, burial, and ressurection reference. I didn't hate the film, but it was just one more notch on why I didn't care for it that much. When I go to see a comic hero movie I want very few things, action, some good story, a bit or atleast hint of the character from the comic (i.e. like Wolverine not being a 9ft tall purple skinned girl or something), and for the movie not to take itself so seriously it'll liken itself to a religion or take pot shots at it for no reason.

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

I thought the movie was lovely and I like Singer as a director...

Don´t get me wrong, i liked the movie.
For what it was, it´s a very interesting take on the Man of Steel, as a sequel to the 1st and 2nd movie, it´s a great movie.
But that doesn´t make Singer less wrong for the job...
Now, i like Singer has a director, but, his undying love for the Donner´s movie was his downfall.
Superman Returns is a good movie, a great movie even, just not a great Superman adaptation.
It´s an Elseworld, and as that, it´s great...

As for the all Christ references, people have to start stopping that nonsense.
I´m not a bit religious, but i respect the faith of everyone, but i can not and will not scream to the top of my lungs that Man of Steel is Christ in a cape, that´s just ridiculous.
Just like Harry Potter, Luke Skywalker and whatever are not based on Christ....they can be based a little on the story, but that is the same as to say that some movies are based on Terminator, Aliens, Die Hard and whatever.
The only movie where you can say that is The Matrix, because..well..that´s the idea.