JLA First or Solo Films First? A Perspective

[The Batman]

This perfect fanboy dream of having everyone get their solo franchise was, frankly, kinda naive, and kinda stupid to be honest....

1. Who the hell, after three films playing the same role, is gonna sign up to play that character again for another potential three films? Slim to none.

2. By the time said solo franchise is done, most of the actors would be in their 40's or late 30's no doubt. I dont know about you, but when i see a JL movie, I want the characters in their prime, not broke down, old, tired, and going through the motions actors. And go ahead, say that wouldnt happen. We had a whole summer where once successful franchise had become tired and worn by the third movie.

3. In a world where a big summer movie can make 300-400 million bucks, both Batman and Superman only made 200 million. The big guns. even 300 made more money. How the hell is WB, just one company, gonna be considered stupid for not potentially wasting their money on several other 150 mill franchise when even their biggest names dont break major bank anymore?

4. It's been...how long since WW was in development? Flash? GL? Were we getting anywhere? No, we werent. Now, we are.

frankly, fanboys have never thought logically when it came to this project, which is why many are pissed. the bubble has been burst and reality has set in...

 

[The Guard]

I've just always thought it's dumb that people expected WB to spend 12-1400 million dollars on films that may or may not be successful before trying JUSTICE LEAGUE.

 

[The Batman]

Exactly....if fanboys had it their way, we'd get middle aged actors who're probably tired of their roles in a JLA film, which wouldve been twenty years off because instead of capatilizing, fanboys want all the solo franchises done. how ridiculous is that?

 

[LostSon88]

Ten bucks that 5 year old could also tell you it's better to get a JLA movie now and risk never getting solo films than get one failed solo film and risk never getting JUSTICE LEAGUE.

Go ahead. Ask a five year old DC COmics fan if he'd rather see a movie with just Green Lantern in it...or a movie with Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, The Martian Manhunter, Green Lantern, The Flash and Aquaman in it.

Kids. Wise beyond their years.

Exactly.

 

[Sun_Down]

This perfect fanboy dream of having everyone get their solo franchise was, frankly, kinda naive, and kinda stupid to be honest....

1. Who the hell, after three films playing the same role, is gonna sign up to play that character again for another potential three films? Slim to none.

2. By the time said solo franchise is done, most of the actors would be in their 40's or late 30's no doubt. I dont know about you, but when i see a JL movie, I want the characters in their prime, not broke down, old, tired, and going through the motions actors. And go ahead, say that wouldnt happen. We had a whole summer where once successful franchise had become tired and worn by the third movie.

3. In a world where a big summer movie can make 300-400 million bucks, both Batman and Superman only made 200 million. The big guns. even 300 made more money. How the hell is WB, just one company, gonna be considered stupid for not potentially wasting their money on several other 150 mill franchise when even their biggest names dont break major bank anymore?

4. It's been...how long since WW was in development? Flash? GL? Were we getting anywhere? No, we werent. Now, we are.

frankly, fanboys have never thought logically when it came to this project, which is why many are pissed. the bubble has been burst and reality has set in...

There we go, somebody gets it. That's a good, hard dose of reality to anyone who still thinks giving each league member a trilogy leading up to a JLA trilogy. It''s not a matter of what some kids on a message board thing, it just plain wouldn't work. The logic just doesn't work.

 

[jmc]

If only DC wasn't linked with Warner's, then there'd be a better chance of getting solo films and all JL would be talk and nothing more than fanboy fantasy.

 

[Justin]

While I would rather have the JLA movie first, mainly because I wouldnt care about any of the Spin off characters except for Bats and GL, I could see a way of doing it with the solo movies first. You could just have a single solo film for say Flash, Green Lantern, and Wonder Woman. Would just be about 3 years and then you could lead into the JLA movie.


That way the JLA movie seems like a bigger deal and you have more invested in the characters from the other movies (assuming you have seen them). It would add more to the Flash's death (assuming it were true) if he were in a Barry Allen flash film first. It also adds more for Wally West's eventually becoming Flash if he is featured in the first Flash movie. The other advantage would be it could put more time between Batman Begins and JLA and you could possibly get Bale and Routh back for the JLA movie.

I would think this is all rather unlikely and would be very hard to coordinate. On top of that if one of the solo films actually does break BO records (say maybe the GL picture makes 300+ million unexpectedly) they may scrap the JLA film again or delay it another couple years to focus on the solo film that earned a significant amount of money. And what if none of them are such a big hit that they stall the production on JLA...what if they are all flops or at least a couple are. We could end up never getting a JLA movie.

The studio could end up in a situation where they have to recast even more of the parts. Who knows we could even end up with not only multiple versions of Superman and Batman but also multiple Wally West's and Wonder Woman's. A dead Barry Allen in one series and a live one in another. Jay Garrick being introduced in JLA but not in the Flash movies. And the Green Lantern Corps can get to be a real mess if we ended up with 2 movie versions.. with 2 Hal Jordans, a Guy Gardner or 2, a Kyle Rayner and a John Stewart spread between Green Lantern and JLA. You could forget which GLs were in which movie series in the time that sequels take to come out. Although that could be a nice set up for a Crisis on Infinite Earths type sequel which ... oh God how horrible that would be.

 

[GUNSLINGER]

this movie is gonna suck!!!!

 

[Jake Cassidy]

this movie is gonna suck!!!!

Thanks for sharing. Now try coming up with something more original.

 

[Steelsheen]

This perfect fanboy dream of having everyone get their solo franchise was, frankly, kinda naive, and kinda stupid to be honest....

1. Who the hell, after three films playing the same role, is gonna sign up to play that character again for another potential three films? Slim to none.

2. By the time said solo franchise is done, most of the actors would be in their 40's or late 30's no doubt. I dont know about you, but when i see a JL movie, I want the characters in their prime, not broke down, old, tired, and going through the motions actors. And go ahead, say that wouldnt happen. We had a whole summer where once successful franchise had become tired and worn by the third movie.

3. In a world where a big summer movie can make 300-400 million bucks, both Batman and Superman only made 200 million. The big guns. even 300 made more money. How the hell is WB, just one company, gonna be considered stupid for not potentially wasting their money on several other 150 mill franchise when even their biggest names dont break major bank anymore?

4. It's been...how long since WW was in development? Flash? GL? Were we getting anywhere? No, we werent. Now, we are.

frankly, fanboys have never thought logically when it came to this project, which is why many are pissed. the bubble has been burst and reality has set in...

a nice cold bucket over the head.

good post man

 

[XXTBWCXX]

Cap America's coming out in 09 though (or at least scheduled to). Cap America isnt that famous though, neither is Iron Man.

Captain America ISN'T famous? Are you mad? It's Captain America!!!! Lol.

Iron Man is awesome too...always loved the Iron Man cartoon.

 

[ray243]

Well...to put it simply, why can't the fans waited for all the other indepedent superhero film to finish first before starting a JL film? As well as waiting for the dark knight 2 to finish before starting the 'newer' version of JL.

 

[Steelsheen]

i dont think JL fans has any control on delaying or fastracking this movie project. we're just happy that they're actually considering making this franchise into a movie. it wasnt too long ago that most of us thought it would never happen due to the costs of bringing this gargantuan project to the screen.

you get a straight answer from TPTB and i'll give you a cookie.

 

[Grinder]

Because "Superman Returns" crashed and burned and now WB have lost their hope in the solo films and rather go with an introduction for all the characters before the solo films follow.

 

[Dotten]

Wait for the other films? Why? It's not like their going to use those versions/actors in a JL film. Will never happen.

I only live once and can be dead by tomorrow morning. Give me a Justice League film, I'm tired of all the solo-movies. Time for something new. How boring/one-minded it is to want yet another solo-film.

There is a reason why people are starting to go "not another superheromovie!". It's time to up the bar, give us a movie with the whole lot of them. The same goes for Marvel, give us movies with more then one superhero (not talking X-Men).

And finally, give us a movie with Superman beating the crap out of batsyboy

 

[ClarkLuther55]

Wait for the other films? Why? It's not like their going to use those versions/actors in a JL film. Will never happen.

And you base this claim on what?

I only live once and can be dead by tomorrow morning. Give me a Justice League film, I'm tired of all the solo-movies. Time for something new. How boring/one-minded it is to want yet another solo-film.

There is a reason why people are starting to go "not another superheromovie!".

Because movies like Spider-Man 3, both Fantastic Four films, Ghost Rider, Elektra, etc. have been rushed or screwed up. People don't like seeing stupid, cliche, and mediocre movies.

 

[ClarkLuther55]

Well...to put it simply, why can't the fans waited for all the other indepedent superhero film to finish first before starting a JL film?

Mindlessness and the desire for instant gratification. IMO, most fanboys don't know what they want. The studio tells them what's going to be cool, and they follow along with it. Just look at the Venom rush job in Spider-Man 3.

As for the WB, it's a massive overreaction to the financial disappointment of Superman Returns. SR is by most accounts a movie that was not great, but good overall. This is not what the overreacting fanboys who declared this to be "the worst movie ever" think. This is based on the 77% score it got from critics at Rotten Tomatoes, and the 6.9 score it got from nearly 68,000 regular people on IMDB.

While considered a good movie overall, I think just about anyone can tell you that it took Superman in the wrong direction. Instead of introducing a new generation of kids to the character, it decided to be a semi-sequel to a film series that had been dormant for decades. And on top of that, it's only continuing off of the first 2 out of 4 films in it (alienating viewers much?). SR also had more dramatic ambitions, and severely neglected the action aspect.

So what does the WB do? Instead of taking the good from SR and trying to fix its flaws, they decide to ditch the entire thing, Brandon Routh and all. Instead of trying to strike a balance between drama and action, they apparently want to cram in as many heroes into the next movie as they can, for a big action extravaganza.

I admit that I don't have hard evidence to go on. Nothing much has been revealed about the Justice League movie, and what has been revealed has mostly been obvious BS. It's just a feeling I have, but to me it seems like the WB isn't concerned at all with story, or proper build up. During the production of SR and BB, we kept hearing about what Singer and Nolan wanted to do with the characters and story. Now? We hear nothing.

They've hired Miller as the director. Is it because they think he's a good director, or because he recently helmed a successful kid's movie that made a lot of money?

I may be wrong, but I've been able to smell crap coming in the past. I was able to predict how Spider-Man 3 and Fantastic Four turned out. Justice League is sounding more like those films than BB.

 

[Sun_Down]

And you base this claim on what?

Common sense. This fanboy pipe dream of having 6-7 solo franchises leading up to JLA and having it be in the same continuity or use the same actors is just that : a pipe dream.

 

[ClarkLuther55]

Common sense. This fanboy pipe dream of having 6-7 solo franchises leading up to JLA and having it be in the same continuity or use the same actors is just that : a pipe dream.

They ALREADY have the two biggest heroes down. Wonder Woman, Flash, and Green Lantern could all make great movies. They don't even need to make a Flash solo film first, if they plan on using and killing Barry in JL and then giving Wally the solo film afterwards (one of the few JL spinoff rumors I actually like). Martian Manhunter and Aquaman are admittedly tougher sells, but it's also not as essential for them to have solo films as compared to the bigger name heroes.

So this impossible "fanboy pipe dream" could actually be...two more movies.

 

[Sun_Down]

They ALREADY have the two biggest heroes down. Wonder Woman, Flash, and Green Lantern could all make great movies. They don't even need to make a Flash solo film first, if they plan on using and killing Barry in JL and then giving Wally the solo film afterwards (one of the few JL spinoff rumors I actually like). Martian Manhunter and Aquaman are admittedly tougher sells, but it's also not as essential for them to have solo films as compared to the bigger name heroes.

So this impossible "fanboy pipe dream" could actually be...two more movies.

I don't think we're on the same page here. I'm addressing this idea of "introducing characters" or "leading up to JLA" which people seem to be hung up on here. A lot of people seem to thing that WB will somehow coordinate seven separate franchises keep them all in continuity and top is all off with a JLA trilogy with the same actors and in the same continuity. That is the pipe dream.

It's been established that Begins and Returns are in a different continuity than JLA, so I don't really get why you're bringing them up.

 

[Cmill216]

The "Why can't the JL movie fans and WB wait for a while?" has been merged with the "First or Solo" thread. Feel free to continue the discussion here.

 

[ClarkLuther55]

I don't think we're on the same page here. I'm addressing this idea of "introducing characters" or "leading up to JLA" which people seem to be hung up on here. A lot of people seem to thing that WB will somehow coordinate seven separate franchises keep them all in continuity and top is all off with a JLA trilogy with the same actors and in the same continuity. That is the pipe dream.

A full SEVEN separate franchises and a full JLA trilogy may be pipe dream. But it's not black-and-white, no continuity vs. seven separate franchises.

Superman and Batman have already been done. You can now do a GL and WW movie first. Sequels to those movies aren't necessary before JLA comes out. This will get a couple more origins and character establishments out of the way, so the JLA movie won't be so crowded.

It's been established that Begins and Returns are in a different continuity than JLA, so I don't really get why you're bringing them up.

What the hell? When someone is complaining about the direction not to go for a unified continuity, you can't just dismiss it by saying the WB isn't going for a unified continuity.

 

[ClarkLuther55]

1. Who the hell, after three films playing the same role, is gonna sign up to play that character again for another potential three films? Slim to none.

Brandon Routh would, because he's literally got nothing else going for him.t:

I kid, I kid. But you don't need to produce an entire full trilogy for every character before making Justice League. Just do a GL, WW, and Flash movie. You don't need to make a sequel before making Justice League.

2. By the time said solo franchise is done, most of the actors would be in their 40's or late 30's no doubt. I dont know about you, but when i see a JL movie, I want the characters in their prime, not broke down, old, tired, and going through the motions actors.

Late 30s is hardly "old" these days. Actors are good-looking people, and more often than not play characters younger than themselves. George Clooney and Brad Pitt are still considered extremely hot by women, even though they're in their 40s.

The JLA members are supposed to be great, established heroes, so ages in the late 30s would actually be fitting. The only member where the actor's age would be a huge problem is WW, because the character isn't supposed to age.

And go ahead, say that wouldnt happen. We had a whole summer where once successful franchise had become tired and worn by the third movie.

Are you talking about Spider-Man, Pirates, and Shrek? People thought they sucked not because too much time had gone by and the actors got old, but because they were mediocrre or bad movies.

3. In a world where a big summer movie can make 300-400 million bucks, both Batman and Superman only made 200 million.

Batman Begins may be a reboot, but in the eyes of the 2005 public it was NOT the start of a fresh new franchise. It was yet another installment of a ruined franchise. But based on people's reactions BB can hardly be considered a disappointment. It won the audience back after Schumacher tarnished the Batman name. People are excited for the sequel.

Superman Returns was a massive financial disappointment. But that doesn't mean Superman doesn't sell. Brian Singer took just about the most inexcusably ******ed direction he could have gone in making this film, when it comes to mass appeal. From the introduction text, this movie was ALREADY alienating new viewers by telling them that the Superman story had already happened, and that what they were about to see would be some weird post-Superman story. There are NO actual fights in this movie. Zero.

Yet this movie, which didn't care to introduce audiences to the character or even let Superman throw a single punch, made $200 million domestic. It wouldn't even have been considered bad financially, if the budget hadn't been ridiculously inflated from a decade in developmental hell.

The big guns. even 300 made more money. How the hell is WB, just one company, gonna be considered stupid for not potentially wasting their money on several other 150 mill franchise when even their biggest names dont break major bank anymore?

Do one solo film, with a reasonable budget and reasonable expectations, and you're not necessarily screwed if it disappoints financially.

But you think it's smarter for the WB to put ALL their eggs in one basket, and go for a movie that may have a budget of well over $200 million? And if Justice League flops, then ALL their superhero franchises go down the drain?

4. It's been...how long since WW was in development? Flash? GL? Were we getting anywhere? No, we werent. Now, we are.

If they put the same apparent lack of imagination and time into those movies as they're doing with Justice League, then sure, they could have knocked those movies out too. No origin for the League, or even separate intros for its members? Lifting a story right out of the Infinite Crisis buildup from what, 2 years ago? That's the easy way out.

They also had a Flash director in Goyer, with lots of ideas about what he wanted to do. They CHOSE to cast him aside.

 

[Cmill216]

We had a whole summer where once successful franchise had become tired and worn by the third movie.

Once successful? They all made over 300 million in the States and set records worldwide.

 

[ClarkLuther55]

Once successful? They all made over 300 million in the States and set records worldwide.

They were financial successes, and critical disappointments.

Though from a long-term perspective, critical failure could turn into future financial failure. How many people are as excited about Spider-Man now, as they were in 2002 or 2004?

That's why I think the WB should take their time and make a quality Justice League movie.