JLA vs. The X-men

[Silicon Surfer]

Couldn't he just speed up the blood in his veins and give him an aneurysm or the chemicals in his brain to knock him out like Walter did to ummm I think it was Alchemy. Also The Flash has taken out magnetic shields before with his speed like Morta's "Atom" which was supposed to be impenetrable.

The power might be capable of it but the doing would no doubt be insanely difficult. In addition one of Magneto's tricks is the control of blood flow. That is how he exerts mind control. Again we reach a point where the result would be too complicated to figure out. There is too much we don't know and a lot of possibilities. Could Flash exert sufficient control, if he could would it overide Magneto's own control, would an effective use cause Magneto to lash out involuntarily and take out Flash along with the surrounding territory, would he completely succeed, would something completely unforseen happen? Barry might have been smart enough to understand and control the power this way but the others have somewhat more mundane intellects.

 

[Nokio]

Maybe Wally could and maybe not. We don't know whether the transfer of speed will work on Magneto's shield. Magneto's power can strengthen his body if he wants it to. In addition transferring energy to Magneto to accelerate him would not produce acceleration pressure since acceleration pressure is created when a separate object is accelerating itself and presses on the body to cause it to accelerate to match. The primary object of acceleration, in this case Magneto himself, would feel nothing.

Well I'm not going to pretend to know all the laws of physics and what not and you are undoubtly right, but why would the crew of the Enterprise need those dampening shields to protect them becuase the ship is moving at an intense velocity? I just recall reading something and this was real by the way of faster then light travel and it was saying something about how the human body wouldn't be able to withstand the pressure. I don't know.

I was saying lending speed to magneto himself and not his shield. His shield if up would be moved along with him I would imagine. I do recall reading that Wally had done this or could do this sending someone accelarating off by lending speed to them. I don't know, it is comic science after all, so anything is possiable.

 

[Silicon Surfer]

With Star Trek the engines drive the ship not the crew. At those velocities any change in course or speed would send the crew into the bulkheads at 10 or 20,000mph or more if it were not for the inertial dampers that keep the crew moving at the same speed relative to the ship. It's like what happens when you slam on the brakes of a car only on a vastly greater scale.

 

[Flash Facts]

The power might be capable of it but the doing would no doubt be insanely difficult. In addition one of Magneto's tricks is the control of blood flow. That is how he exerts mind control. Again we reach a point where the result would be too complicated to figure out. There is too much we don't know and a lot of possibilities. Could Flash exert sufficient control, if he could would it overide Magneto's own control, would an effective use cause Magneto to lash out involuntarily and take out Flash along with the surrounding territory, would he completely succeed, would something completely unforseen happen? Barry might have been smart enough to understand and control the power this way but the others have somewhat more mundane intellects.

How could he cope with an instantaneous attack? He would have no time to resist let alone lash out. Wally should not have any trouble using the speed force on him either as he has already done things like steal all the motion from inertia, who is a fellow speedster no less, while still leaving him conscience as punishment.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

The power might be capable of it but the doing would no doubt be insanely difficult. In addition one of Magneto's tricks is the control of blood flow. That is how he exerts mind control. Again we reach a point where the result would be too complicated to figure out. There is too much we don't know and a lot of possibilities. Could Flash exert sufficient control, if he could would it overide Magneto's own control, would an effective use cause Magneto to lash out involuntarily and take out Flash along with the surrounding territory, would he completely succeed, would something completely unforseen happen? Barry might have been smart enough to understand and control the power this way but the others have somewhat more mundane intellects.

For Wally, probably. But the Speed Force is certainly capable of giving people aneurysms. Walter West did it to Kadabra with ease, simply because he didn't feel like playing games with Kadabra like Wally usually would. Walter actually sped up and slowed down different parts of Kadabra's brain simultaneously to do it, though; he didn't just play with the whole blood flow to his brain at once. As for whether he could override Magneto's control of his own blood, the Speed Force is the fundamental source of kinetic energy in the universe. It overrides everything else where motion is concerned. So yes.

 

[Silicon Surfer]

For Wally, probably. But the Speed Force is certainly capable of giving people aneurysms. Walter West did it to Kadabra with ease, simply because he didn't feel like playing games with Kadabra like Wally usually would. Walter actually sped up and slowed down different parts of Kadabra's brain simultaneously to do it, though; he didn't just play with the whole blood flow to his brain at once. As for whether he could override Magneto's control of his own blood, the Speed Force is the fundamental source of kinetic energy in the universe. It overrides everything else where motion is concerned. So yes.

Which leads me to wonder how many 10's of thousands of people Walter West killed to perfect the technique. On the one hand it's a cool feat but it would take a virtually impossible amount of control to pull it off. Magneto at least has extra senses that allow him to detect and analyze the body's EM fields as well as detect the iron in hemoglobin. So Magneto can "see" what he is doing. Even so I assume he killed a lot of people learning how to do it. But then again Magneto is a villlain.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Walter didn't kill tens of thousands of people, but he did kill a few of the Rogues on his world. But if it makes you feel better to attribute it to extra "speed senses" on Walter's part, sure. The Speed Force is just a general cover-all that allows speedsters to do a lot of things without explicit explanations. I don't know how he knew exactly what parts to tinker with and how much to tinker by myself, but I do know that it happened in a comic and therefore could be duplicated against Magneto.

 

[Silicon Surfer]

Walter didn't kill tens of thousands of people, but he did kill a few of the Rogues on his world. But if it makes you feel better to attribute it to extra "speed senses" on Walter's part, sure. The Speed Force is just a general cover-all that allows speedsters to do a lot of things without explicit explanations. I don't know how he knew exactly what parts to tinker with and how much to tinker by myself, but I do know that it happened in a comic and therefore could be duplicated against Magneto.

When I saw the post that first referred to it the comic book fan in me said: ooooh cool. The analytical part of my mind however said: hey wait a minute.

 

[larryfilmmaker]

Batman probably wouldn't fight he is so anti social.. He would just growl at Wolverine and wolverine would growl back. Then they would stare at each other for a little bit and go get a beer.

with Marv and Raphael... all of them growling the whole time and *****ing about being in the leader's shadow

 

[TheCorpulent1]

When I saw the post that first referred to it the comic book fan in me said: ooooh cool. The analytical part of my mind however said: hey wait a minute.

Listen to the comic fan part. Everything about Walter West oozes awesome if you don't overthink it.

 

[Flash Facts]

They can sense motion on atomic levels. Walter didn't control the chemicals it was actually the neurons in his brain and he did it to Alchemy. Wally has been able tell an object is explosive by its molecular vibrations. Max Mercury can apparently tell where every speedster on earth is though the speed force and Wally apparently used it to sense where Linda is though time and space.

 

[Silicon Surfer]

Wally has been able tell an object is explosive by its molecular vibrations. Max Mercury can apparently tell where every speedster on earth is though the speed force and Wally apparently used it to sense where Linda is though time and space.

Those feats are relatively reasonable by comic book standards.

 

[Flash Facts]

Are you saying they are reasonable without "speed sense" or just agreeing that it is reasonable power derived from a "speed sense"? Also are you saying Walter's feats where unreasonable?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

They can sense motion on atomic levels. Walter didn't control the chemicals it was actually the neurons in his brain and he did it to Alchemy. Wally has been able tell an object is explosive by its molecular vibrations. Max Mercury can apparently tell where every speedster on earth is though the speed force and Wally apparently used it to sense where Linda is though time and space.

You're right, it was Alchemy. Sorry about that.

 

[Silicon Surfer]

Are you saying they are reasonable without "speed sense" or just agreeing that it is reasonable power derived from a "speed sense"? Also are you saying Walter's feats where unreasonable?

With an ability to sense and recognize specific vibratory patterns. I still think that Walter's feats would be orders of magnitude more difficult. I can see some of the more brilliant villains with lots of experimental subjects to practice on developing such an ability with years of practice but I think that that is the absolute minimum that it would take. Simply bouncing the brain around inside the skull would be easy but fine control of which parts of the brain to control and which not to control and on a microscopic scale would, I think, be insanely difficult to learn. An idea has just hit me though. Virtual reality simulation with realtime feedback might make it possible.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Or Walter might just rule.

 

[Flash Facts]

Well yea virtual is one way, thats how impulse lived the first few "years" of his life after all but probably unnecessary as just coming in contact with the speed force grants speedsters with knowledge.

 

[Silicon Surfer]

That's a really cheap cop out. It shows just how far DC has fallen.

 

[Flash Facts]

Why is that? Why shouldn't becoming one with a force that is part of all matter and energy and transcends time and space make you a little smarter? And why is it cheap for The Flash but not for The Phoenix?

 

[Silicon Surfer]

Jean worked her butt off for years to learn to control her powers even at a low level before she ever became an X-Man. She worked longer and harder after that. The Phoenix simply built upon what she had already spent more than half her life developing.

 

[Flash Facts]

So do the Flashes, they didn't have the ability to get to the speed force as soon as they get their powers they, have to work for it. Every speedster works to get fast enough to join the force and when they do they don't come back, except for Wally.

 

[Eros]

If the X-men have Jean Grey fully powered, I give it to them, if not, the League takes them down in a few mins.

 

[Nokio]

Jean worked her butt off for years to learn to control her powers even at a low level before she ever became an X-Man. She worked longer and harder after that. The Phoenix simply built upon what she had already spent more than half her life developing.

Which leads to the question as to how did Jean work her her butt off when she has always been the phoenix now that Marvel has recton that to be so???

 

[Nokio]

I just want to know why is Wally using the speedforce to do creative things questionable, but when ever Jean or Magneto or any other mutant do something of similar ilk it's ok? Like Emma Frost using her telepathy to go thru the radio system to get to one of the shield agents that pilot the ONE sentinals, which have telepathic shilding, but Frost's snakes her telepathy thru the communications system? WTF? Or what about Prof X? The man has used his telepathy on people and I go WTF? I can buy certain things that Prof X does, but stuff like shutting down someones central nervous system is just silly. The man should only be able to control your thoughts and other stuff that is connected to thoughts. Your central nervous system or heart or blood flowing is involuntary actions that you can't control, so why would Prof X be able too??? Well as far as i know he's never stopped someone's blood from flowing or their heart, but i do recall him shutting down someone's central nervous system. Motor fuctions that you can yourself control, yes i can accept him overriding your control, but not involuntary bodily functions.

 

[Silicon Surfer]

Actually people can learn to control their heart rate and blood flow. Scientists and doctors have been studying this since the 60's or 70's. Sending telepathy through the radio is ridiculous for anybody.