JLA: Four versions of who the "Founders" were

[Lorendiac]

Okay, yesterday I was over on Marvel.com's boards and someone had started a trivia quiz thread. The first question on the list asked us to name the founding members of the JLA. As you might guess, this led to some heated disagreement. It occurred to me that there have been at least four different answers over the last few decades to the question of "Who were the Founders of the original JLA, way back when?"

I decided to write down my current understanding of what those four different answers have been, and invite feedback from anyone who spots something I got wrong!


Pre-Crisis

The original JLA began with these founding members, in alphabetical order:

Aquaman (Arthur, now called Orin)
Batman (Bruce)
Flash (Barry)
Green Lantern (Hal)
Martian Manhunter (J'onn)
Superman (Clark)
Wonder Woman (Diana)



Post-Crisis

After some retcons, we were told the original JLA had begun with these founding members, in alphabetical order:

Aquaman (Arthur, now called Orin)
Black Canary (Dinah)
Flash (Barry)
Green Lantern (Hal)
Martian Manhunter (J'onn)



Post-Zero Hour

After some retcons, we were told the original JLA had begun with these founding members, in alphabetical order:

Aquaman (Arthur, now called Orin)
Black Canary (Dinah)
Flash (Barry)
Green Lantern (Hal)
Martian Manhunter (J'onn)
Triumph (Will)



Post-Infinite Crisis

After some retcons, we were told the original JLA had begun with at least these founding members, in alphabetical order (but I'm not sure if we've gotten anything, published since the "OYL" jump, that was guaranteed to be "a complete list" of Founding Members?):

Aquaman (Arthur, now called Orin)
Batman (Bruce)
Flash (Barry)
Green Lantern (Hal)
Martian Manhunter (J'onn)
Superman (Clark)
Wonder Woman (Diana)

I have a general impression that the roles in the early days of the JLA of two "previously retconned-in founding members," Black Canary and Triumph, have been left very unclear so far. I haven't actually been buying the latest Justice League title, however, so I may easily have missed something important that would "prove" or "disprove" whether either of them still deserves to be called "a founding member." So the Post-IC version may be exactly the same as the original Pre-Crisis version, or it may turn out to include all seven of the names from the Pre-Crisis version plus at least one or two more names added in, for all I know?

If I made any mistakes on any of these lists, then please, just say so! (It will help, though, if you can point me to a specific story that will prove your point about who should be added to, or removed from, one of these lists! )

 

[Ultimate_Superman]

Superman wasn't a founding member of the Pre-Crisis JLA. For the longest time they kept asking him to join much like post-crisis and he would turn them down.

 

[Harlekin]

I'm just glad Triumph is out. I never liked his inclusion.

 

[Ultimate_Superman]

Also Batman wasn't a founding member either of Pre-Crisis JLA. People tend to put them in there because they are the biggest names in comics but really your founding members were

Aquaman
Wonder Woman
Flash
Green Lantern
Martian Manhunter

Superman and Batman just guest starred in that issue.

 

[Lorendiac]

Also Batman wasn't a founding member either of Pre-Crisis JLA. People tend to put them in there because they are the biggest names in comics but really your founding members were

Aquaman
Wonder Woman
Flash
Green Lantern
Martian Manhunter

Superman and Batman just guest starred in that issue.

I guess I had the impression that they (Supes and Bats) used to be "Founding Members who just occasionally participate in a new case" in the early days of the title -- but I promise I'll dig into it more carefully over the weekend, and if I end up agreeing with you, I'll give you full credit for setting me straight!

 

[Steelsheen]

from what my memory serves me of Pre-Crisis:

- Aquaman
- Wonder Woman
- Green Lantern (or Green Arrow i cant remember)
- Martian Manhunter

Batman and Superman werent founding members of the League, mostly because they have their own successful comic book titles, however they do guest appearances from time to time. part of the reason why the JLA was created is for characters who are well known but doesnt sell as well as Batman and Superman does.

there are varying incarnations of the JLA, lots of version that didnt even involve any of the Big 3, but the most memorable JLA incarnations always involve all 3 of them, hence the general public's association that Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman founded the League.

 

[Lorendiac]

I'm just glad Triumph is out. I never liked his inclusion.

I agree with your general attitude -- except I'm not sure he is out. As far as I can tell, nobody at DC has given us a definite Yes or a definite No on that one.

But I always thought of him as a useless and expendable character concept, yes!

 

[Ultimate_Superman]

I guess I had the impression that they (Supes and Bats) used to be "Founding Members who just occasionally participate in a new case" in the early days of the title -- but I promise I'll dig into it more carefully over the weekend, and if I end up agreeing with you, I'll give you full credit for setting me straight!

Only reason why I state that is because I have the first issues of the Pre-Crisis Justice League (yes even the 1st print of The Bold and the Brave #28) Superman and Batman were there and helped out but were not members. The Pre-Crisis Justice League was formed on the same bases as the Pre-Crisis JSA.

 

[Elijya]

I'm just glad Triumph is out. I never liked his inclusion.

I didn't even know who he was, I had to look him up

 

[CConn]

I didn't even know who he was, I had to look him up

How dare you not know who Triumph is.

 

[The Leaguer]

Triumph is the entire JLA rolled into one.

 

[Lorendiac]

Superman wasn't a founding member of the Pre-Crisis JLA. For the longest time they kept asking him to join much like post-crisis and he would turn them down.

I did some research over the weekend to try to nail down this point. You (and various other people, on one forum or another) argued that Superman and Batman were not "founding members" in the original Silver Age version of the JLA's continuity. I said I would dig into it and get back to you.

I have now double-checked reprints of some of their earliest Silver Age adventures.

The concept of the JLA first appeared in "The Brave and the Bold #28." As the story starts, it quickly becomes obvious that the reader is supposed to just assume that the JLA already exists and all the members know each other. Superman and Batman are both mentioned as members, along with Aquaman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern, and the Martian Manhunter. Unfortunately: Supes and Bats are both so tied up with other matters that we see each man regretting he can't immediately come running in response to the emergency signal that's being broadcast for the entire JLA to gather. This probably is meant to explain why Supes and Bats aren't on the cover of the story, although both of them (along with the other five) are all listed on the first page of the actual story as part of the "Roll Call."

[Note: The real-world reason for their absence from the covers, according to Julius Schwartz in his autobiography "Man of Two Worlds," is that Jack Schiff (the Batman editor at the time) and Mort Weisinger (the Superman editor at the time) both begged him not to use those guys much in the JLA, and especially not on the covers. Jack and Mort were apparently afraid of having their prides and joys get "overexposed." Eventually, however, their wishes were overruled by higher authority after Schwartz happened to mention to the publisher that he thought it would significantly boost sales if he could use Superman and Batman on the covers regularly.]

The League was also featured in the next two issues of "The Brave and the Bold," and then got its own regular title (the first of several!). In "Justice League of America #1," Superman and Batman are again both serving as members. This time they actually participate in the fighting before the story ends.

It was not until "Justice League of America #9" that readers finally learned the "origin story" of the JLA. All their previous adventures, beginning with "The Brave and the Bold #28," had just implicitly assumed that all seven of the founders already knew each other and had already -- at some previous time -- passed out signal devices and agreed to come running in response to the emergency call if someone stumbled across a threat he was afraid he couldn't vanquish alone. We are told that the framing sequence in "Justice League of America #9" is actually a get-together to celebrate the third "birthday" of the League! Most of this story then becomes a big flashback to "three years ago" as various founding members take turns recounting (to Snapper Carr and Green Arrow, who didn't know) the riveting tale of how the seven founders first all bumped into each other during the same adventure and decided to make it a regular thing. Here's the dialogue from the first panel of the last page of this story, with all seven heroes in a huddle on an ice field.

CAPTION (Superman narrating): "Afterward, we held an impromptu get-together and decided that since teamwork alone had enabled us to defeat the meteor-beings, it might be wise for us to unite . . ."

BATMAN: We ought to form a club or society . . .

FLASH: A League against evil! Our purpose will be to uphold justice against whatever danger threatens it!

So that appears to settle it. All seven of those heroes evidently were willing to be members of the JLA as soon as Batman raised the idea, and all seven of them were already members in good standing at the time of the JLA's first clash with Starro in "Brave and the Bold #28," which was the first JLA case ever published from the real-world point of view. (Arguably the first "official JLA case" ever, in fact, because their various battles with the Appelaxians were already won before anybody started talking about how they ought to form a regular team and give it a fancy name.)