JLA vs. The X-men

[Damiean Dark]

Yea, I hate it when popularity overrides all logic and the character's actual powers. I remember reading some magazine in which fans voted who would win in a fight between various superhero and thinking wtf! Most of the outcomes made no sense, people with no powers beating metahumans ect. As a matter of fact I think Wolverine beat The Flash in it.

So by that logic wolverine would beat Batman because he has a healing factor is far stronger faster and has more endurance?.

 

[Vanguard07]

So by that logic wolverine would beat Batman because he has a healing factor is far stronger faster and has more endurance?.

I'm not sure what you're argument is supposed to be but yes by all rights Wolverine would beat Batman under most circumstances.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Like the Punisher? Or Sabretooth, who soundly kicked his ass numerous times? I'm not saying he's never portrayed as a good fighter, but the instances he's not seem to outweigh the times he is to me. I haven't read Wolverine comics in years, though, so he may be fighting like a world-class martial artist all the time now.

Sabretooth is supposed to be expertly trained as well. He does 'fight like an animal', but I wouldn't consider that a drawback in his case...he seems to have taken that to an artform.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

He also fights like a barroom brawler nine times out of ten. I know he's supposed to have lots of training, but he rarely ever is portrayed using any of it.

I don't know about that. Aside from his initial appearances where Cyclops basically could own him with minimal Judo training, this hasn't been the case in a while. His "barroom brawler" style came from the fact that mostly, left on his own, he got in a ton of barroom brawls. He practically lived out of mandripor there for a while, which isn't exactly a nice, quiet neighborhood. So, when the locals got rough, he got rougher. But, when someone like Silver Samurai, the Hand or Shingen Yashida, he was shown to be an adept fighter.

However, Batman isn't much different. He doesn't usually whip out the fancy smancy ninjuitsu/krav maga/kung fu training unless he is fighting someone like Lady Siva, Deathstroke or 'The League of Assassins'. I mean, by and large, when he swoops down into a crowded bar of hoods he smashes up the place, throws and couple out the windows, kicks a few out the doors, and is left holding that one informant who has what he needs. Or, a more direct example, when Guy Gardener tried to get in his face, all he did was punch him hard in the nose...not really a complex martial arts move.

 

[Flash Facts]

Yea, but isn't that because he is doing that on purpose? I mean thats Batman's whole shtick to beat everyone up while looking bad ass to intimidate everyone else. Not that I'm saying he would win, I just think Batman seems to always be in control while Wolvie always seems to umm not.

 

[trustyside-kick]

Basically, the argument here is that Wolverine fights more savage; thus making people think he has no discipline. And fighting styles are all about discipline. He makes himself look like a rabid beast when he fights; what with the roaring and just swinging his claws.

Heck, Wonder Woman is supposed to be an amazing melee fighter, but it always looks like she fights likes Supes instead.

 

[Rorschach II]

You have to realize to that these guys use the Danger room to train in, something that the JLA doesn't have.

Danger room?

You ever heard of Gotham City?

 

[The Question]

Danger room?

You ever heard of Gotham City?

Last time I checked, Gotham City doesn't have all that many giant robots.

 

[trustyside-kick]

Edit.

 

[CaptainClown]

Last time I checked, Gotham City doesn't have all that many giant robots.

check again ...

nope still not there

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Basically, the argument here is that Wolverine fights more savage; thus making people think he has no discipline. And fighting styles are all about discipline. He makes himself look like a rabid beast when he fights; what with the roaring and just swinging his claws.

He fights that way because frankly most of the time his opponents are more savage. Sabretooth, Cyber, the roughians of Mandripor and Savage Land Mutates are far different opponents than the Joker, Lady Siva and Ra's Al Ghul. However we've seen that when Wolverine fights a disciplined opponent, like Shingen Yashida, he himself is a very disciplined and adept fighter.

He, much like Batman, can use both savage and disciplined fighting techniques. But unlike Batman, he is in situations where the former is far more effective.

 

[Kitsune]

Last time I checked, Gotham City doesn't have all that many giant robots.

AW, but chicks dig giant robots.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't know about that. Aside from his initial appearances where Cyclops basically could own him with minimal Judo training, this hasn't been the case in a while. His "barroom brawler" style came from the fact that mostly, left on his own, he got in a ton of barroom brawls. He practically lived out of mandripor there for a while, which isn't exactly a nice, quiet neighborhood. So, when the locals got rough, he got rougher. But, when someone like Silver Samurai, the Hand or Shingen Yashida, he was shown to be an adept fighter.

However, Batman isn't much different. He doesn't usually whip out the fancy smancy ninjuitsu/krav maga/kung fu training unless he is fighting someone like Lady Siva, Deathstroke or 'The League of Assassins'. I mean, by and large, when he swoops down into a crowded bar of hoods he smashes up the place, throws and couple out the windows, kicks a few out the doors, and is left holding that one informant who has what he needs. Or, a more direct example, when Guy Gardener tried to get in his face, all he did was punch him hard in the nose...not really a complex martial arts move.

Isn't part of the essence of a lot of martial arts only using those motions that are necessary? It lets you conserve your energy while your opponent wastes his trying to show off or flailing around without much technique.

Also, as I recall, Logan mostly beat Shingen Yashida because his healing factor allowed him to take tons of punishment from Yashida until Logan managed to get that one lucky killshot in. And that's really what it comes down to: in a fight, readers generally look at martial arts as a way to defeat your opponent while taking on as little damage to yourself as possible. Logan often fights like **** because he doesn't really need to worry about taking on damage to himself. His healing factor is so absurd now that it coers anything that could happen to him if he leaves himself open--which, given how often we see both him and Batman bleeding and battered, he indisputably does a lot more than Batman. I'm not saying Wolverine has no skill. I'm saying he often fights sloppily because he doesn't have to care what happens to his body in the process, unlike most other skilled martial artists.

 

[Vanguard07]

Thats basically the same point i was about to bring up.

The fact is Logan has indisputably proven himself capable of fighting with a world class skill level. Right up there on Cap or Batman's level of skill. The difference is he doesnt have to rely on his skill level in most cases.

In a fight like this, guaranteed he wouldnt be a barroom brawler or stupid roaring animal. This is the kinda thing where samurai/soldier/special agent logan would come out to play.

 

[Kitsune]

However, Batman isn't much different. He doesn't usually whip out the fancy smancy ninjuitsu/krav maga/kung fu training unless he is fighting someone like Lady Siva, Deathstroke or 'The League of Assassins'.

Krav Maga isn't fancy smancy... it's supposed to be the opposite... IE brutally efficient.

 

[Rorschach II]

The thing about Batman is his unlimited resources. All those..."wonderful toys". Assuming that Marvel and DC were to merge into one Universe again for an intercompany brawl, Batman would have contingency plans for the Marvel heroes just as he does for the DC heroes. If Batman can take down Superman (which he has), he can take down Wolverine.

 

[Silicon Surfer]

The thing about Batman is his unlimited resources. All those..."wonderful toys". Assuming that Marvel and DC were to merge into one Universe again for an intercompany brawl, Batman would have contingency plans for the Marvel heroes just as he does for the DC heroes. If Batman can take down Superman (which he has), he can take down Wolverine.

The X-Men would have contingency plans for Batman too. Telepaths would be occasionally probing his mind to see what he was up to using technology to neutralize his defenses. All the X-Men would undergo training scenarios to take out Batman under any conceivable situation.

 

[Harlekin]

The thing about Batman is his unlimited resources. All those..."wonderful toys". Assuming that Marvel and DC were to merge into one Universe again for an intercompany brawl, Batman would have contingency plans for the Marvel heroes just as he does for the DC heroes. If Batman can take down Superman (which he has), he can take down Wolverine.

Batman has never actually taken down Superman.

 

[Rorschach II]

Well he doesn't kill him, but he has "beaten" him in the sense you beat someone in a boxing match or something.

And this wasn't direct, but in Tower of Babel, it's Batman's contingency plans that are used against Superman.

 

[Rorschach II]

The X-Men would have contingency plans for Batman too. Telepaths would be occasionally probing his mind to see what he was up to using technology to neutralize his defenses. All the X-Men would undergo training scenarios to take out Batman under any conceivable situation.

Yeah, but he's The Goddamned Batman. =D

 

[LexCorp]

Batman has never actually taken down Superman.

What about the DARK KNIGHT did he not beat him?

 

[November Rain]

on the original post, league...on bats vs wolverine, i think bats has the potential to KO wolverine but by the time he realises what type of foe he is up against it may be too late. Wolverine can completely go in without claws or knowledge of healing factor and surprise bats and take him out.

it might take bats a few opportunities to realise what needs to be done to deal with wolverine but after that, i don't see much trouble with bats needing an oppening to crush his windpipe and put him down for a short nap.

however without prior knowledge, it's wolverine's bout.

 

[Silicon Surfer]

Wolverine is stronger, faster, tougher and has been fighting many decades longer than Batman. Crushing Wolverine's windpipe would probably not put Wolverine down fast enough to keep him from killing Batman and Wolverine would get up again within a few minutes. Wolverine has been hit by three M-16's at point blank range and didn't go down. He's been hit by the Hulk and stayed conscious. Nothing Batman could do would put Wolverine down fast enough and probably not at all.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

All true, but Batman's fought plenty of people who are stronger, faster, and tougher than he is and won. I still don't believe Wolverine's gonna start out fighting at his top level, either. Decades of comics have shown me that his first tendency is to wade in without a care and get hurt a bit before he starts using any of his skill.

 

[nimrod]

Still, Wolverine takes this.