Joss Whedon developing Marvel SHIELD series for ABC

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Okay. Something completely different.

You've heard others, now: Dr Cosmic's SHIELD series pitch!

*snip*

Yeah, this is pretty much what I'm expecting, in broad strokes.

Anyway, as far as the "why weren't these people recruited for the Avengers?" question, that really has an easy answer: "Not powerful enough, not controllable enough, not accessible enough." If someone is a non-powered street level type, why bother, he *has* those in SHIELD already. Similarly if they have superpowers, but relatively low end and lacking in serious training. Fury needed people with serious heft. Look at the people he recruited: all of them are in the range of "Can take on military units and win", as opposed to guys who'd have to start running from the police.

So, Moon Knight or the Punisher might well be out there, but Fury didn't bother with them because they wouldn't help. Namor and Dr Strange might be out there, but he can't get to them or doesn't know where they actually are. And any number of villainous or monster types might be out there, but he's not going to recruit them because they'd be even more counterproductive than Banner.
 
I think that works in theory, but for me, the more people there are like that, whatever the excuse, the more odd it seems that they never came up in any way on any level at any time. And how does that fit with Fury's "They're here because we need them." What's wrong with Namor and Dr. Stranger (j/k) that they weren't needed? Or is Fury just wrong/talking inconsequential fluff? It's odd enough that War Machine didn't come up. I think any more would go from incidental to plot hole. Them coming to SHIELD's attention from here on out makes more sense to me, as now there is a public idea of a superhero, and a very clear reason for people to start suiting up, as well as reason to track anyone that might maybe qualify.

I'm so comfortable with the Avengers pre-dating all other heroes, though, and some people might not like that.
 
Def like the ideas of moonknight, punisher, to luke cage/iron ffist as guest heroes more so moon/punisher. Since I doubt they get a movie any time soon. And would work more readily as tv characters. I kinda would want to hold off on ironfist/luke in the case either of them get a movie going post avengers 2. But we will see what happens.
 
I definately like the idea of carol, clay, and mockingbird being main cast. And like others said probably be set up ala csi/other cop shows. So we be just focusing on a single group of shield agents doing what ever from looking into new heroes, taking out some super villains, hydra, etc..... stuff. So then ya we don't have to have the helicarrier, fury/hill needed all the time. And can be used during sweeps. To just audio/computer messages when they can't get slj/smulders.

Torch you don't need to have maria, fury showing up in every episode to be around and still play a key in the show. Its not going to be possible for jackson/smulders with there tv/film schedules to be around for a 18-24 episode count. But popping in physically 2 oe three times a season is more doable. Along with audio/computer messages being made. That is why you can do something like sitwall/that other guy/carol as the head of the group. And by poxy gets missions/briefs from hill/fury.

I can't wait to see what comic characters appear. What the budget will be for show. And tone/plot be. And any surprise appearances of slj/smulders/rdjr or others(also in that if they can't have the heroes appear just leave it as video footage from the films/paper headlines of new stuff they are doing).


I dont really see Sam showing up in this series,beyond the pilot.Cobie is another story,but even there,I don't really know what they could do with her character in limited appearences.
 
I think the main thing is to keep outside hero appearances at an absolute minimum so the show does not become a series of spot the cameo's and grants the movie side of things the freedom it needs to operate. The focus should absolutely be on SHIELD and the cast whoever that ends up being. Villains on the other hand are fair game imo.
 
I dont really see Sam showing up in this series,beyond the pilot.Cobie is another story,but even there,I don't really know what they could do with her character in limited appearences.

They could have her and/or SLJ make intermittent appearances by having their characters appear every episode or so for five minutes, briefing the show's main team via video conference; a la what was done with NCIS: Los Angeles. Rocky Carroll (who plays the Director of NCIS on the parent show) was committed full time to NCIS and appears every once in awhile in this fashion (particularly during the first mission). It's a pretty effective strategy as those limited appearances are enough to have him feel somewhat a part of the show.

In terms of execution, it's pretty easy and non-obtrusive. All they'd need to do is schedule the actor to come in for a day on their own to record their side of the conversation and you're set for a decent number of episodes (assuming, the scripts can be completed in time).
 
SHIELD would be a chance to do the Sensational She-Hulk graphic novel which features SHIELD heavily. Fury is reassigned in it so barely plays at all. She-Hulk is forced to strip in front of all the SHIELD agents and is subjected to a full-body examination and thoroughly probed by one of them because he was possessed by an alien.

They obviously would have to adapt it so it's not as graphic, but the essence of the storyline about alien possession and She-Hulk being captured could still be included. Of course, you need She-Hulk's origin explained first.
 
I think it'd be funny if there are misfit hero types who really want to be in the big leagues but they are stuck on the B-list and maybe they see SHIELD as there chance or something. Kind of like in Earth's Mightiest Heroes when Iron Fist got all excited about getting a job from Ant-Man thinking it mean they were working with the Avengers.
 
It would be really neat if there was a storyline about a previous instance of the Avengers Initiative being enacted involving the Agents of Atlas.
 
I wonder if they might use this series as a launching pad for the Mockingbird series Marvel's been talking about for so long.
 
I wonder if they might use this series as a launching pad for the Mockingbird series Marvel's been talking about for so long.

That almost seems like it could be slightly redundant with this SHIELD series. Maybe we'd get a lot of Mockingbird in here and she might work better anyway within these larger SHIELD stories and interacting with this cast of characters. They can keep it fresh since she won't have to feature every week and can give room for other characters to develop as well so that it doesn't become formulaic.
 
To the fokks who think not having fury/hill all the time is bad move not really. They can be explained away dealing with larrger threats and what not. And if we got with danvers/sitwell/others as head for the leads we have. No reason we need to see fury/hill every episode. Just for pilot, season finale, and sprinkled thrroughout season. All ging on what the theme of show is apoint and all that. Plus even if we don't physically see fury/hill every episode. They can still factor into an episode via a computer message, smulders/slj doing some audio recordings, or we can play the card who ever leader of team is just was on phone and we just didn't hearr other end. That way there characters are refenced in episodes even if we can't see them all season. Plus also if the show is more about a covert op team handling rise of new heroes, to shield villains, aim/hydra deals there is no need to have fury/hill showing up all the time.
 
I think that works in theory, but for me, the more people there are like that, whatever the excuse, the more odd it seems that they never came up in any way on any level at any time. And how does that fit with Fury's "They're here because we need them." What's wrong with Namor and Dr. Stranger (j/k) that they weren't needed? Or is Fury just wrong/talking inconsequential fluff? It's odd enough that War Machine didn't come up. I think any more would go from incidental to plot hole. Them coming to SHIELD's attention from here on out makes more sense to me, as now there is a public idea of a superhero, and a very clear reason for people to start suiting up, as well as reason to track anyone that might maybe qualify.

I'm so comfortable with the Avengers pre-dating all other heroes, though, and some people might not like that.

Eh, that was half poetry, half referring specifically to the actually-formed Avengers ( as opposed to random other people ). As for the names you mentioned, honestly, they all have fairly trivial explanations: War Machine was on the other side of the continent, Namor is an isolationist dick who largely doesn't care what happens to the surface, and Dr Strange *is* often off-world ( assuming Fury even knows he exists ). I think its largely a non-issue.
 
I think that works in theory, but for me, the more people there are like that, whatever the excuse, the more odd it seems that they never came up in any way on any level at any time. And how does that fit with Fury's "They're here because we need them." What's wrong with Namor and Dr. Stranger (j/k) that they weren't needed? Or is Fury just wrong/talking inconsequential fluff? It's odd enough that War Machine didn't come up. I think any more would go from incidental to plot hole. Them coming to SHIELD's attention from here on out makes more sense to me, as now there is a public idea of a superhero, and a very clear reason for people to start suiting up, as well as reason to track anyone that might maybe qualify.

I'm so comfortable with the Avengers pre-dating all other heroes, though, and some people might not like that.

Maybe SHIELD was unaware of their existence or wasn't able to get in contact with them at the time. That seems like a very plausible answer to me.
 
I'm not talking about the explanations for them not being there, I'm talking about the explanation for why they are never mentioned or referred to or have their existence acknowledged in any way. The more there are, the less credible it becomes that everyone just automatically knew that Stark was the only unsuitable person in existence that was somehow was suitable anyway, that no one else was worth even inquiring about and even when the world was basically ending, it came down to just these people and only these people. I could see one or two people existing and not being mentioned because they were believed dead or evil or simply unknown/haven't done anything notable yet. But... the more there are, the worse a retcon it is, imho.
 
Like I said, maybe SHIELD just didn't know about them. Like, for example: Namor lives at the bottom of the ocean. Dr. Strange pretty much keeps to himself and does his own thing and doesn't draw a lot of attention to himself. Black Panther might still have been in the middle of training to get revenge for his father's murder. There's no reason that SHIELD would have to know about these guys already.

And even if SHIELD did know about them, or at least new something about them, there's a perfectly reasonable explanation as to why they were never mentioned: It never came up. Simple as that. If SHIELD wasn't able to get in contact with them or whatever, then there's no reason why it should have been mentioned in the movie. Those would have bee unnecessary details.
 
Ya if anyone is in shield rrador is be shield quality villains, hydra/aim, and hero side the more street guys like cage/fist and punisher. And tossing punisher here in tv would be way better way to interrgrate him into the mcu then blowing millions on another film that probably won't be successful like last ones. And the typical terrorist plot deal stories. So mixing csi/with ncis and the hero twist and that likely be how show will go.
 
Like I said, maybe SHIELD just didn't know about them. Like, for example: Namor lives at the bottom of the ocean. Dr. Strange pretty much keeps to himself and does his own thing and doesn't draw a lot of attention to himself. Black Panther might still have been in the middle of training to get revenge for his father's murder. There's no reason that SHIELD would have to know about these guys already.

And even if SHIELD did know about them, or at least new something about them, there's a perfectly reasonable explanation as to why they were never mentioned: It never came up. Simple as that. If SHIELD wasn't able to get in contact with them or whatever, then there's no reason why it should have been mentioned in the movie. Those would have bee unnecessary details.

Yeah. This is really the kind of thing that, at worst, requires a two line "explanation" once or twice in the TV show. "So if Prince Namor can lift a cruise liner, why didn't you ask his help against Loki?" "Hah, you have clearly never met Namor, agent."
 
Like I said, maybe SHIELD just didn't know about them. Like, for example: Namor lives at the bottom of the ocean. Dr. Strange pretty much keeps to himself and does his own thing and doesn't draw a lot of attention to himself. Black Panther might still have been in the middle of training to get revenge for his father's murder. There's no reason that SHIELD would have to know about these guys already.

And even if SHIELD did know about them, or at least new something about them, there's a perfectly reasonable explanation as to why they were never mentioned: It never came up. Simple as that. If SHIELD wasn't able to get in contact with them or whatever, then there's no reason why it should have been mentioned in the movie. Those would have bee unnecessary details.

The world is ending. We're out of options. Things natural would come up. They didn't. And the more people with incredible abilities that just happen to not draw any attention to themselves, the less likely it becomes. When you start getting to a half dozen of these people it begins to feel contrived - because it is. This works for those properties as if we are ever introduced to these characters, they will most likely have origin stories, and not be portrayed to have been in operation all this time, and just conveniently absent when the world was ending.

Yeah. This is really the kind of thing that, at worst, requires a two line "explanation" once or twice in the TV show. "So if Prince Namor can lift a cruise liner, why didn't you ask his help against Loki?" "Hah, you have clearly never met Namor, agent."

Once or twice isn't too bad. It's possible everyone who was aware of, say, Namor had the exactly same perception of Namor, so there was no discussion that would naturally arise in the world's most desperate hour. I don't think that explanation would satisfy, when they clearly got Stark of whom similar could be said, but explanations could be created. But there can't be a dozen such people SHIELD is aware of and no one at any point said: "Hey, what about..."

Edit: Here's what I saw - I saw big things go down and SHIELD approach/pull in everyone that may be of any use, regardless of how dangerous or unstable or unsuitable they may be. It turns out that everyone they ask eventually accepted, fortunate for them. Then these people get taken apart and all seems lost. Fury's only play is to push who's left to act. The clear implication is that there is nothing/no one else to do. They are desperate, but this is it. No other options come up, even from the critical Maria Hill or World Security Council. Everything works out, and even when future conflicts are mentioned, the only hope is that they will return. There's no room in that desperation and comprehensive action and conversation for an alternate set of super people, imho.

Anyone they come across on the SHIELD show should be non-powered or low(non-flashy)-powered and/or not been in operation for very long at all. This just happens to work best for a TV budget anyway. They get to meet things at their outset, and run into people who can be shown in action without blowing the budget for the episode. Punishers and Iron Fists that rarely use their chi, and Dr. Strange's that aren't sorcerer supreme yet. All good bets. (unless they plan on making any of those films).

I think it'd be better to focus on emergent villains, the more obscure the better, imho, and use Misty and Colleen as the H4H as recurring cast, so that the show doesn't tread on any likely movie properties' potential narratives.
 
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The world is ending. We're out of options. Things natural would come up. They didn't. And the more people with incredible abilities that just happen to not draw any attention to themselves, the less likely it becomes. When you start getting to a half dozen of these people it begins to feel contrived - because it is. This works for those properties as if we are ever introduced to these characters, they will most likely have origin stories, and not be portrayed to have been in operation all this time, and just conveniently absent when the world was ending.

Think about this in the context of a movie. Mentioning other super people that exist but SHIELD can't track down for whatever reason would have added nothing to the film. It's not important to the story. Any reasonable filmmaker would either not include it or cut it out in the editing room to save time.

Also, none of the characters new the world was ending until the final act. Up until that point it was a fugitive hunt. And at that point SHIELD was crippled and there wasn't enough time to find those people even if they could. Bringing them up in the film would have been absolutely pointless.

There's a thing in movies called "conservation of detail." If the audience doesn't need to see or hear it for the story to work, then it shouldn't be there.

And, again, I want to stress: It's entirely possible that SHIELD doesn't know these other people exist yet. They may be unaware of Dr. Strange's existence. He's a pretty reclusive guy, so that makes sense. Same with Namor. They may not have mentioned him because they never heard of him.
 
On the cases of strange/namor they are probably not even active yet in the mcu universe. Strange is probably still just a regular doc. And namor probably hasn't come to the surface world yet. So why would they need to be commented yet.
 
On this note, however: I really dig the Agents of Atlas, they're a cool group. I think it would be really need to have it that the Avengers Initiative actually started in the 50s to try and replace Captain America, and they were the first incarnation of it. You could explain people not having heard of them by saying that, due it being the Cold War, and their missions largely revolving around preventing the Russians and Chinese from obtaining super technology, they had to be kept a secret for security reasons. And you could say that the reason they're not around anymore is that most of them died on their last mission which was a total cluster****. Could be part of the reason why the Avengers Initiative was considered a failure of an idea by the council. You could probably have Marvel Boy as the only surviving member of the team who serves purely as a consultant for SHIELD because his powers failed him a long time ago and he's no longer able to survive in Earth's atmosphere.

It's not super necessary, I know, but Marvel's always been worse than DC about giving props to their Golden Age heroes (at least, the one's who aren't Cap), and it's be nice to see them given a little screen time and respect. Plus, whoever the survivor is could maybe have a trophy room full of mementos of past adventures that maybe reference the likes of The Golden Claw, Fin Fang Foom, and The Winter Soldier.

Might make a cool episode of occasional guest character for the SHIELD show.
 
Could be a a cool idea and maybe toss in some winter solider nods counting of course what direction character is going in cap sequel.
 
Think about this in the context of a movie. Mentioning other super people that exist but SHIELD can't track down for whatever reason would have added nothing to the film. It's not important to the story. Any reasonable filmmaker would either not include it or cut it out in the editing room to save time.

Also, none of the characters new the world was ending until the final act. Up until that point it was a fugitive hunt. And at that point SHIELD was crippled and there wasn't enough time to find those people even if they could. Bringing them up in the film would have been absolutely pointless.

There's a thing in movies called "conservation of detail." If the audience doesn't need to see or hear it for the story to work, then it shouldn't be there.

And, again, I want to stress: It's entirely possible that SHIELD doesn't know these other people exist yet. They may be unaware of Dr. Strange's existence. He's a pretty reclusive guy, so that makes sense. Same with Namor. They may not have mentioned him because they never heard of him.

I agree, but you guys are trying to saying it's there but it doesn't get mentioned. That's not good storytelling either.

On this note, however: I really dig the Agents of Atlas, they're a cool group.

...

Might make a cool episode of occasional guest character for the SHIELD show.

That sounds quite cool.
 
I agree, but you guys are trying to saying it's there but it doesn't get mentioned. That's not good storytelling either.

It's fine storytelling if you're talking about a franchise made up of a lot of different stories.

In the context of the movie The Avengers, it would have been completely pointless to make mention of any of that stuff because it had no bearing on that particular story.

Doesn't mean you can't, in another story set in the same world, say "oh, here's a person you haven't met yet."


That sounds quite cool.

Golden Age heroes rock.
 
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