The Avengers Joss Whedon leading on "Avengers" short list of directors

[craigdbfan]

I'm someone who doesn't care for Buffy, Angel, or Dollhouse.

I've only enjoyed Firefly and Serenity. In a previous post you said only Whedon "fans" were entertained by the sci fi series. Not true in all cases.

Astonishing X-Men was also good so I've basically enjoyed only 2 of all his work but based on those two I know he can handle an Avengers film.

 

[Nathan]

So, do we have an idea when Filming starts? Will they work on the Avengers as soon as Captain America is finished?

 

[david icke]

No it being girly isn't my only criticism. My other criticism is that they were too TRY HARD. They tried too hard to be hip and happening and it came off forced. The one liners literally made me cringe.

The fight scenes looked worse than Power Ranger fight scenes. The relationships between most of the characters were unbelievable and cheesy in most cases.

See for me the only redeeming factor for Buffy was Anthony Head. But seeing as he is awesome in everything that isn't that hard to do. And maybe Spike. And i mean maybe.

And i did give Angel a chance. But David Borenaz or whatever his name is has about as much charisma as a dish cloth. And again, it tried too hard to be hip and happening.

Ok, one thing about the fight scenes, if you watched them on BBC2 like I did originally, they were all cut to shreds because it was shown at 6pm. I'm not exagerating here, when I saw them on dvd it was a breath of fresh air, the martial arts were great in the show. Angel was even worse when being cut for Ch4's 6pm slot, one major fight between Angel and Spike was cut down to one kick and a wee bit of 'scuffling' as it resolved.

and as for Angel, as chickflick said, the 1st series is not as strong as the later series(same goes for Buffy's), it still has some great episodes in there, but it really takes off in the second series as the major arcs kick in.
Hey there are a few eps here and there that I can't stand as well, but for the most part I thought they were the first time we had got live action shows that were as good as ongoing comicbooks.

edit: as for the cringe factor sometimes, believe me, I used to get that when i first got into the show, but i went with it, and as I got to know the characters better I chilled out and realised I was being too hard on it, it is an emotional show, so it's easy to cringe sometimes as the emotions are out in full unguarded glory, and of course them being teenagers can play into that too.
But, Whedon had plenty of great one liners, he can write very funny dialoge that feels real.
and the fight scenes in the eps that he actually directed were always of a higher quality, the final battle between Angel and Buffy at the end of s2 being a good example.

 

[baerrtt]

Whedon grew up a Marvel Comics fan like the rest of us but actually took what morally distinguished them from DC's titles in the 60s (the idea of gifted but burdened and marginalised outsiders still doing the right thing no matter what) and let that influence his own work. He gets what makes those characters, THAT universe, resonate folks.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

I just don't trust him. Especially if the news that he is gonna touch up the script is true.

This is the guy who had a Wonder Woman script rejected. This is the guy who had an X-Men script rejected.

****... he wanted to take away Wonder Woman's ability to fly and create a whole new villain for her.

Not good news.

And baerrtt, that's X-Men. X-Men are TOTALLY different to Avengers. And like i said, he had his X-Men script rejected so...

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I personally am delighted at this news, Firefly and Serenity showed the guy can do ensemble's and do them well, not to mention for the budget the action in the movie is stunning.

I only ever got into FF/Serenity, but I got into them like I very rarely have with anything else, so colour me excited.

 

[david icke]

I just don't trust him. Especially if the news that he is gonna touch up the script is true.

This is the guy who had a Wonder Woman script rejected. This is the guy who had an X-Men script rejected.

****... he wanted to take away Wonder Woman's ability to fly and create a whole new villain for her.

Not good news.

And baerrtt, that's X-Men. X-Men are TOTALLY different to Avengers. And like i said, he had his X-Men script rejected so...

He admitted he had trouble finding the character of Wonder Woman, actually admitted this in the press, unlike most writers would have.
No-one has got Wonder Woman down yet on film, everyone is having problems with that character. It wasn't like he chased after the project because he thought he had a vision for the project, it was offered to him and he had a go. edit: The Avengers will already have their characters realised for the screen when he comes at the film anyway. He just has to direct and arrange the pieces.
and there have been a good few X-Men scripts that have not been used, the writer of 'Seven', andrew Walker Smith' wrote a script that was unused. When new filmakers take on the project sometimes they want to do their script/have their own people work on it, like Singer did. That doesn't mean he can't write X-Men for the screen.

and what great villans does Wonder Woman have in her library? I'm not surprised he wanted to make up his own villan for her, and she has not always been able to fly in the books, she worked well without that feature for decades, her ability to fly is relatively recent.
edit: Personally I think it's a better idea for her not to fly in the movies, to make her feel less 'Supergirl', in the comics or cartoons it can work and not be so distinguishable because so many people fly, but a solo movie could totally feel 'female Superman', and mean she does not have her own special flavour onscreen.

 

[DocHoliday]

Knaves, he also had a Batman script rejected. When Whedon is on (Buffy season 5, Firefly Angel season 5), he can hit a Lexicon like few can...but when he is off (Buffy Season 6, Dollhouse) he is catastrophically off.

But that's all on a tv scale. He's had one good movie, let's put that in perspective here. Joe Johnston has had Rocketeer and October Sky and we still have are doubts about him( as we should). I hope for the best and I do hope that Marvel keeps an eye on him. Some of the best things Whedon has done has come from network pressure (making Malcolm Reynolds funnier for example)

 

[kedrell]

Well, pipe up! Save me a google you lazy man. I thought he had only directed Zathura and Made before Iron-Man, so I'll look him up.
But, anyway, c'mon, it still proves nothing, and y'know what, Whedon choosing to make his directorial movie debut with a film that tied up his tv show was a brave decision and one for the fans. I imagine he was fully aware it would probably not connect with the mainsteam audience, not many director's films do anyway. edit: I think it's far more admirable and pertinent that the guy made a lowish budget look far better than many would.

edit: Ok, he did 'ELF' holy crap, lol, I watched that on tv when it was on at Christmas, I don't know if I would be so into highlighting that as an example of why the situation is different, any half decent chump could have directed that movie and made it a hit, it was the Will Ferrell name that got the bums in seats for that generic crap.

That's a load of BS if ever I heard it. Ferrell was a side character comedy actor prior to Elf. He'd never carried a movie to any real success prior to that. That was the film that really launched him away from just being one of those Saturday Night Live guys. Not only was that film a huge hit but was very well received by critics and is regarded by many as a christmas classic by now. But anyway, you want to spin stuff in Whedon's favor so continue all you want. As far as I'm concerned, this directing choice is a train wreck waiting to happen.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Serenity was a forgettable.

I'd prefer they get an expert at epic action films like Alfonso Cuaron or Doug Liman.

Not sure why they got the buffy guy for the biggest superhero movie in history.

This news freakin blows.

 

[DocHoliday]

David Yates at least has experience with ensemble big budget genre pictures. He understands set pieces. Not sure Whedon does.

 

[kedrell]

I hated Serenity. Lord knows why most critics liked it but then Spidercrap3, Anghulk and Super Singer-Stalker-Snore Man Returns also ended with more critics liking them than hating them, so they can't be used as the sole determining factor on whether a film is good or not. The general audiences said meh and that was if for that film.

 

[kedrell]

Serenity was a forgettable.

I'd prefer they get an expert at epic action films like Alfonso Cuaron or Doug Liman.

Not sure why they got the buffy guy for the biggest superhero movie in history.

This news freakin blows.

It does indeed. Why oh why couldn't we have gotten Matthew Vaughn.

 

[DocHoliday]

It does indeed. Why oh why couldn't we have gotten Matthew Vaughn.

Because he was non-committal with Thor. I think he would have been a good choice too.

 

[kedrell]

I don't think he was non-committal so much as the necessary dominos weren't falling into place in time. So his contract lapsed and he went on to Kick Ass. I don't think he was trying to be a *****e about it. With the X3 situation(I know someone will bring it up), well...who the hell would want to work under Rothman?

 

[david icke]

Knaves, he also had a Batman script rejected. When Whedon is on (Buffy season 5, Firefly Angel season 5), he can hit a Lexicon like few can...but when he is off (Buffy Season 6, Dollhouse) he is catastrophically off.

As far as I have read it was a pitch for the Batman re-boot he had rejected, not a script.
I agree that s5 of Buffy was awesome, but you have to remember he left Buffy with s6 as showrunner to go off and do Firefly. Being showrunner meant he would go over every single script and improve anything he didn't like, this also meant he was less able to write and direct eps himself of course. He only directed one ep of s6, the series highlight 'Once More with Feeling'. s7 of Buffy also suffered as he was not going over every script as well, he should have waited until he was finished with Buffy before doing Firefly imo.
As for Dollhouse, I have only seen the first 8 or 9 eps of s1, the start of the series was awful, but that was due to network interference, the show really started with ep6, and it was a big improvement. whedon even said in the press that the show starts getting good with ep6, when the show was at about ep3, how many creators would be so honest in the press like that? It's the same as the Wonder Woman thing, he openly admitted in the press of having problems with the character, and had to re-write evrything, and this was before he made his final pitch. Rare open honesty in that biz.

I am not saying everything he has done is gold, I don't like Firefly, I thought it was boring, but I liked a couple of eps, the ones that were most lauded, I enjoyed the movie much more than the series, I don't think it is a sci-fi classic, but I enjoyed it, and can understand why the fans of the show regrad it so highly. and those first 5 eps of Dollhouse were awful, but I hear it just got better and better after that.

 

[david icke]

That's a load of BS if ever I heard it. Ferrell was a side character comedy actor prior to Elf. He'd never carried a movie to any real success prior to that. That was the film that really launched him away from just being one of those Saturday Night Live guys. Not only was that film a huge hit but was very well received by critics and is regarded by many as a christmas classic by now. But anyway, you want to spin stuff in Whedon's favor so continue all you want. As far as I'm concerned, this directing choice is a train wreck waiting to happen.

Ok, sorry, I did not mean to sound so harsh, I just did not like the movie much, and feel a lot of less competent directors could have made the same movie. On the other hand, I did like Zathura a lot, that was a fun movie, and the kids went a long way as their brotherly battles felt very real, so it was funny and when it got emotional that worked too.
edit: And I don't think any old director could have got those p[erformances out of the two brothers as well as he did, as well as the laudable effort to make the sfx practical for the most part when so many would have went CG.
Elf was mainly down to Will Ferrell doing his thing I would say, that's why I mean a lot of director's could have made the movie. And personally I would not put it near any kind of Christmas classic status, it's a little early for that I think.

Oh, and btw, I am not 'spinning' in Whedon's favour, I am genuinely debating the merits of his work, as I have said, I have not enjoyed all of his work, but his superhero work has been outstanding.

 

[DocHoliday]

You are right...It was a pitch. I loved firefly....but consequently my favorite episode was the Tim Minear one "Out of Gas". One of my problems with Whedon is he always blames someone else when something he does, doesn't work. Always blames line readings ect. I do like the guy, but I think people who have liked his previous work are giving him a pass on his technical directing skills. He may blow it out of the ball park and believe me I hope he does, I just haven't seen anything to indicate he can handle something so big.

As for Matthew Vaughn, I know he didn't mean any ill will towards Marvel when leaving...With that said he wanted The Avengers gig, Kick-Ass apparently is pretty damn good too. You'd think Marvel would jump on it, unless they are bitter. Again pure speculation.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

He admitted he had trouble finding the character of Wonder Woman, actually admitted this in the press, unlike most writers would have.
No-one has got Wonder Woman down yet on film, everyone is having problems with that character. It wasn't like he chased after the project because he thought he had a vision for the project, it was offered to him and he had a go. edit: The Avengers will already have their characters realised for the screen when he comes at the film anyway. He just has to direct and arrange the pieces.
and there have been a good few X-Men scripts that have not been used, the writer of 'Seven', andrew Walker Smith' wrote a script that was unused. When new filmakers take on the project sometimes they want to do their script/have their own people work on it, like Singer did. That doesn't mean he can't write X-Men for the screen.

and what great villans does Wonder Woman have in her library? I'm not surprised he wanted to make up his own villan for her, and she has not always been able to fly in the books, she worked well without that feature for decades, her ability to fly is relatively recent.
edit: Personally I think it's a better idea for her not to fly in the movies, to make her feel less 'Supergirl', in the comics or cartoons it can work and not be so distinguishable because so many people fly, but a solo movie could totally feel 'female Superman', and mean she does not have her own special flavour onscreen.

Oh just this guy called Ares who is one of DCs great villains.

 

[kedrell]

No problem man.

I don't consider Buffy or Angel to be superheroes, especially not comic book superheroes. They're vampire & vampire hunter. And I totally agree with Ace about the fight choreography in those shows, the hipster-ness and the cringe-worthy moments. And All I have seen of them is from the DVDs not from TV. My brother's g/f is a Buffy fanatic. She's also a Twilight fanatic and thinks the Batman series peaked in quality with B&R.

 

[david icke]

Oh just this guy called Ares who is one of DCs great villains.

Ok, I only know him from the JL cartoon, and he was good there(if i am remembering the right god).
But, that is only one you have listed, if Whedon was into the idea of using him, you could see why he would want to make up his own villan. With the Batman franchise, if you don't feel you want one villan, there are plenty to choose from , so no excuse in making your own up, with Wonder Woman I can totally understand that, especially coming from someone who has made up his own super-villans in the past, and has come up with some classics, Spike and Drusilla being his best two I would say.

 

[Iron_Stark]

After thinking about it, Whedon is bad choice.

Buffy, Angel and Serenity/Firefly are his best work? Seriously?

 

[david icke]

No problem man.

I don't consider Buffy or Angel to be superheroes, especially not comic book superheroes. They're vampire & vampire hunter. And I totally agree with Ace about the fight choreography in those shows, the hipster-ness and the cringe-worthy moments. And All I have seen of them is from the DVDs not from TV. My brother's g/f is a Buffy fanatic. She's also a Twilight fanatic and thinks the Batman series peaked in quality with B&R.

They also fight numerous other kinds of super-villans, but that is beside the point. Do you consider Blade a superhero? He *only* fights vampires. I consider him a superhero myself.

Ok, you can show up a person's opinion if they think B&R is the peak of the BM series, as it was so universally panned all over the galaxy. But, with Buffy and Whedon, c'mon, it has legions of fans, frickin' professors write papers and books on the psychology of the show, serious papers here, not just funny crap for the sake of being cute.
It just goes to show how well regarded it is for the simple fact that a guy with one flop movie under his belt is being offered the Avengers gig, the biggest superhero ever conceived. You have your personal opion on his work, that's all well and cool, but to try and convince that everyone's positive opinion is somehow wrong or undermined because you know someone who likes it and also loves B&R is a little weak, c'mon.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Ok, I only know him from the JL cartoon, and he was good there(if i am remembering the right god).
But, that is only one you have listed, if Whedon was into the idea of using him, you could see why he would want to make up his own villan. With the Batman franchise, if you don't feel you want one villan, there are plenty to choose from , so no excuse in making your own up, with Wonder Woman I can totally understand that, especially coming from someone who has made up his own super-villans in the past, and has come up with some classics, Spike and Drusilla being his best two I would say.

But that's the problem i have with this choice.

I just KNOW Whedon will try to cram some of his own sensibilities and ideas into the movie. Even if it means stomping over the work Favs and Branagh and Johnston have done before him. It's inevitable. And it's unnacceptable.

 

[david icke]

After thinking about it, Whedon is bad choice.

Buffy, Angel and Serenity/Firefly are his best work? Seriously?

Well, if you had to go away and actually think about whether or not you think he's a good choice or not, and already considered Buffy, Angel, Firefly/Serenity to be bad works, well...maybe you should stop slapping yourself in the head so much after coming to these 'realisations', you may be knocking something loose in there. Best to just play it safe and go with his move: and you can brush your teeth while doing that, so bonus time all round.