Justice League of America vs. Avengers

[redlion2]

You're really going to tell me Green Lantern couldn't handle Spider-Man, Wolverine and Luke Cage? Are you effin' kidding me? That ring has so many capabilities (much more than just blasting energy). He could just catch them all in a bubble and throw them across the planet.

Well...I guess in your version, GL would just scoop em all up in a green bubble and throw them across the planet....but not mine and writers can do these type of stories and determine the outcome anyway they want. Here's something to mull over though. Spider-man is Marvel's flagship character. He's arguably the most popular comic character there is right now. The amount his movies make and merchandise sales would indicate this to be true. There ain't no way any writer for DC or Marvel is going to have him taken out that easily. If they did, I honestly believe their editor would be coming back to them for a re-write. It's the reason why writers can have him irradiated from a red sun and punch the living daylights out of someone like Superman.

Also, you're severely underestimating Vixen. Remember Spider-Man vs Wolverine? The fight Spidey usually wins? Remember the whole 'proporionate strength of a spider' thing? Vixen can copy that easy and avoid Wolverine all day, coming back to hit him either with Spider strength or something like an elephant.

Underestimating Vixen? Nah...I don't think so. Wolverine made his debut in the Incredible Hulk. The little guy held his own against Hulk and Wendigo. Vixen ain't in the Hulk's league....she's not even close. Theoretically, she could mimic Spidey's powers and get in a few shots but Wolvie will get his in too and just one of his shots could be fatal or at least devastating. He's taken Nitro's detonation at ground zero with nothing left but his adamantium skeleton and he still came back for more. He could take anything she could dish out and then some. I'd still take my chances with Wolverine to ace her out in the first few seconds of the fight.

Black Lightning may only generate electricity but he is also a superb hand to hand combatant. He's also rather agile and quick. It won't be an easy fight against Black Lightning (who I think would still lose), but Cage ain't walking away without quite a few scratches.

We both agree on this, I just happen to think it would be easy.

You're also underestimating Arsenal a great deal. He's a great hand to hand combatant and an excellent marksman. He can help out most of his teammates in taking care of his opponents, especially if he packs a few trick arrows with him.

I don't see this guy as much of a threat but that's just me.

 

[Harlekin]

Well...I guess in your version, GL would just scoop em all up in a green bubble and throw them across the planet....but not mine and writers can do these type of stories and determine the outcome anyway they want. Here's something to mull over though. Spider-man is Marvel's flagship character. He's arguably the most popular comic character there is right now. The amount his movies make and merchandise sales would indicate this to be true. There ain't no way any writer for DC or Marvel is going to have him taken out that easily. If they did, I honestly believe their editor would be coming back to them for a re-write. It's the reason why writers can have him irradiated from a red sun and punch the living daylights out of someone like Superman.

Which is completely irrelevant to the fight. We're discussing the fight, not what Marvel Comics or DC Comics would do with the fight, so how any of the big two's writers would be forced to approach it doesn't matter.

So, in the end, it doesn't matter, because Spidey CAN be taken out that easily, and there's no reason (barring the metatextual reasons) why Green Lantern would not take the easiest course of action in this case.

Underestimating Vixen? Nah...I don't think so. Wolverine made his debut in the Incredible Hulk. The little guy held his own against Hulk and Wendigo. Vixen ain't in the Hulk's league....she's not even close. Theoretically, she could mimic Spidey's powers and get in a few shots but Wolvie will get his in too and just one of his shots could be fatal or at least devastating. He's taken Nitro's detonation at ground zero with nothing left but his adamantium skeleton and he still came back for more. He could take anything she could dish out and then some. I'd still take my chances with Wolverine to ace her out in the first few seconds of the fight.

Yeah, but it's already been revealed that the Nitro-case was a special, extraordinary case with circumstances that will be revealed in Wolverine #48:

WOLVERINE #48
Written by MARC GUGGENHEIM
Pencils & Cover by HUMBERTO RAMOS
Epilogue to "Vendetta"
Logan's survived a plane crash, near-decapitation and being burned alive. The question is... HOW? In this special epilogue to the sellout smash Civil War tie-in arc, the answers start to unfold. Think you know everything there is to know about Marvel's most popular mutant? Think again. Logan's newest mystery begins here.

As for Vixen, no, she can't "theoretically" take Spidey's powers, she can. She can take on the properties of any animal in the neighbourhood. Heck, she could take the properties of a bacteria and just duplicate herself endlessly (something Animal Man, who has similar powers, has done before). He may need one real good slice, but it's going to be incredibly hard to land that hit. Also, yeah, he may be able to hold his own against the Hulk, but the next week he gets owned by Spidey. It goes both ways.

 

[redlion2]

Harl... relax... deep breaths... he's a moron.

Party on Harl

Whoah there sport....you don't have to go all hyper on me. I haven't called you an idiot or moron. I mean....if my response to the topic offends you, then just ignore me.

Who would've thought....an actual Marvel fan, posting on a Marvel comics board, in a legitimate thread....would actually choose Marvel characters? That's got to be, well, insane right?

 

[redlion2]

Which is completely irrelevant to the fight. We're discussing the fight, not what Marvel Comics or DC Comics would do with the fight, so how any of the big two's writers would be forced to approach it doesn't matter.

So, in the end, it doesn't matter, because Spidey CAN be taken out that easily, and there's no reason (barring the metatextual reasons) why Green Lantern would not take the easiest course of action in this case.

NO......that is the point. These characters are fantasy and can be written anyway a writer so chooses. There is no universal law somewhere that states unequivocably, Spidey couldn't defeat Green Lantern. At least that was the point I was making before you decided to comment on it. I gave an alternative to the idea that the New Avengers would be defeated so easily.

Yeah, but it's already been revealed that the Nitro-case was a special, extraordinary case with circumstances that will be revealed in Wolverine #48:

That has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that Wolverine has a mutant healing factor and would be able to outlast, outwithstand, and outmuster anything Vixen could dish out.

As for Vixen, no, she can't "theoretically" take Spidey's powers, she can. She can take on the properties of any animal in the neighbourhood. Heck, she could take the properties of a bacteria and just duplicate herself endlessly (something Animal Man, who has similar powers, has done before). He may need one real good slice, but it's going to be incredibly hard to land that hit. Also, yeah, he may be able to hold his own against the Hulk, but the next week he gets owned by Spidey. It goes both ways.

Whether she can or not, makes no difference. She'd still get killed by Wolvie and I've already explained about Spider-man. At least IMO.

 

[Harlekin]

NO......that is the point. These characters are fantasy and can be written anyway a writer so chooses. There is no universal law somewhere that states unequivocably, Spidey couldn't defeat Green Lantern. At least that was the point I was making before you decided to comment on it. I gave an alternative to the idea that the New Avengers would be defeated so easily.

That much is obvious, but you were specifically pointing to the whole 'Marvel would never let Spidey lose' thing which is irrelevant. I'm not attacking you on the fact that you defend the New Avengers (heck, I'm not even attacking you at all, but your argument), but the argument you used in your defense was rather weak, since it's not particularly logical for Spidey to be able to beat GL. As in, a 1/10 chance. He can do it, but probabilities put it in favor of GL, and it is therefore that I responded to your gross underestimating of Green Lantern.

That has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that Wolverine has a mutant healing factor and would be able to outlast, outwithstand, and outmuster anything Vixen could dish out.

Yes, it does, because you specifically cited the Nitro incident. Besides, that, Wolverine has been beaten by lesser foes over the years, and I never said that Vixen would win anyway, I simply cited it as a possibility, since she can do everything Spider-Man can and more, and Spider-Man has beaten Wolverine before. Y'know, there's no universal law anywhere that states that Vixen can't beat Wolverine.

Whether she can or not, makes no difference. She'd still get killed by Wolvie and I've already explained about Spider-man. At least IMO.

You explained nothing. Spider-Man has beat Wolverine. Vixen can do everything Spidey can and more. It is concievable that she can beat Wolverine, and if you're really going to fight that, you're a hypocrite.

 

[Cyrusbales]

Well if you upgrade thor, to king thor, avengers would rule.

 

[redlion2]

That much is obvious, but you were specifically pointing to the whole 'Marvel would never let Spidey lose' thing which is irrelevant. I'm not attacking you on the fact that you defend the New Avengers (heck, I'm not even attacking you at all, but your argument), but the argument you used in your defense was rather weak, since it's not particularly logical for Spidey to be able to beat GL. As in, a 1/10 chance. He can do it, but probabilities put it in favor of GL, and it is therefore that I responded to your gross underestimating of Green Lantern.

Once again..no. The part about Spidey was only a sidenote. The gist of my point is in the first line....in YOUR VERSION, Spidey would be defeated easily, not my version, which alludes to the notion that writers can present these characters and their conflicts in anyway that they choose.

Yes, it does, because you specifically cited the Nitro incident. Besides, that, Wolverine has been beaten by lesser foes over the years, and I never said that Vixen would win anyway, I simply cited it as a possibility, since she can do everything Spider-Man can and more, and Spider-Man has beaten Wolverine before. Y'know, there's no universal law anywhere that states that Vixen can't beat Wolverine.

No, I think you're missing my point. You treat the Nitro incident as if the specific background details of the story itself is what I'm using to illustrate my idea. That's not what I'm doing. The Nitro incident where Wolverine is blasted down to his skeleton is used to make a dramatic statement about Wolverine's mutant healing factor and how it would come into play in a fight against Vixen. Wolverine's extraordinary healing factor has been demonstrated long before Nitro.

Hey, it's a given that Vixen could possibly defeat Wolverine, as with any of the characters, even the JLA being defeated by the New Avengers, hence my whole point. Vixen just wouldn't be able to defeat Wolverine in......MY VERSION.

You explained nothing. Spider-Man has beat Wolverine. Vixen can do everything Spidey can and more. It is concievable that she can beat Wolverine, and if you're really going to fight that, you're a hypocrite.

Yes, I explained my reasons why I think, personally, one would be hard pressed to find a writer so willing to have Spidey defeated so easily by another character. In a way, you illustrate my point, that Wolvie could hold his own against the Hulk and yet gets "owned " by Spider-man. Even so, you're focusing on the wrong point, which is....not only is there a possibility that Vixen could defeat Wolverine or Green Lantern could defeat Spider-man but, likewise, Spidey could defeat GL and the New Avengers could defeat the JLA. If you're not willing to concede this, then you're the hypocrite.

 

[Sentry2005]

Well if you upgrade thor, to king thor, avengers would rule.

And if I had the looks of Brad Pitt, the awesomeness of Keifer Sutherland and the unbeatable ness of Chuck Norris, heck, i'd be king of the world.

What's the relevence here? I don't, and Thor isn't King Thor any more. Suck it up.

 

[Sentry2005]

Whoah there sport....you don't have to go all hyper on me. I haven't called you an idiot or moron. I mean....if my response to the topic offends you, then just ignore me.

Who would've thought....an actual Marvel fan, posting on a Marvel comics board, in a legitimate thread....would actually choose Marvel characters? That's got to be, well, insane right?

Yeah sorry. But the point is, the DCU has a vastly greater power level than Marvel. In fact, Marvel's Earth is even smaller (as noted in JLA Vs Avengers by the excellent Kurt Busiek).

I'm a MASSIVE Marvel fan. If I had to pick who my favourate comic book characters are, then they would all be (bar two exceptions) Marvel. My point is, even I can see that the JLA out powers the Avengers easily. Its not even a contest. And saying that in a story so and so would do this and so and so can be written to do that... at the end of the day, we're comparing powers in a fight. That's it. And comparing the Avengers to the JLA, JLA wins hands down.

 

[Cyrusbales]

And if I had the looks of Brad Pitt, the awesomeness of Keifer Sutherland and the unbeatable ness of Chuck Norris, heck, i'd be king of the world.

What's the relevence here? I don't, and Thor isn't King Thor any more. Suck it up.

Just speculating, And how does one measure awesomeness?

(BTW, if you wanna directly compare characters, the only place where there are stats to compare are top trumps, I can post their stats if you want?)

 

[Sentry2005]

Just speculating, And how does one measure awesomeness?

(BTW, if you wanna directly compare characters, the only place where there are stats to compare are top trumps, I can post their stats if you want?)

You meassure awesomeness by how cool someones television show is

And, it's a nice idea (The trump cards), but it won't work. The game is designed with an internal nucleus of stats... ergo, you can't play Top Trumps Lord of the Rings against Marvel Heroes and expect the stats to be accurate. They're based on the individual line of which said characterr belongs. Which sucks, because it would solve this thread once and for all

 

[Cyrusbales]

You meassure awesomeness by how cool someones television show is

And, it's a nice idea (The trump cards), but it won't work. The game is designed with an internal nucleus of stats... ergo, you can't play Top Trumps Lord of the Rings against Marvel Heroes and expect the stats to be accurate. They're based on the individual line of which said characterr belongs. Which sucks, because it would solve this thread once and for all

I did this before with top trumps(being a sad loser and all), it's interesting what it shows I guess, when you play them off, it's not vastly outweighted, apparently all the comic book hero's are supposed to be able to be used together easily, should I put them up for the sake of it? (i am sad and have nothing else to do! Rather I can't be assed to do it!)

 

[redlion2]

Yeah sorry. But the point is, the DCU has a vastly greater power level than Marvel. In fact, Marvel's Earth is even smaller (as noted in JLA Vs Avengers by the excellent Kurt Busiek).

I'm a MASSIVE Marvel fan. If I had to pick who my favourate comic book characters are, then they would all be (bar two exceptions) Marvel. My point is, even I can see that the JLA out powers the Avengers easily. Its not even a contest. And saying that in a story so and so would do this and so and so can be written to do that... at the end of the day, we're comparing powers in a fight. That's it. And comparing the Avengers to the JLA, JLA wins hands down.

Apology accepted...no hard feelings.

I understand what you're saying but based upon all the stories I've read over the years of all the characters from both companies, I've never bought into that arguement that DC's characters were more powerful than Marvel's.

 

[Harlekin]

Apology accepted...no hard feelings.

I understand what you're saying but based upon all the stories I've read over the years of all the characters from both companies, I've never bought into that arguement that DC's characters were more powerful than Marvel's.

Well, obviously not all of them, but the headliners usually are. The ratio of the uberpowerful and the normal is pretty equal these days between the two companies.

 

[redlion2]

but the headliners usually are

I respect that's your opinion but it's not mine.

 

[Sentry2005]

I did this before with top trumps(being a sad loser and all), it's interesting what it shows I guess, when you play them off, it's not vastly outweighted, apparently all the comic book hero's are supposed to be able to be used together easily, should I put them up for the sake of it? (i am sad and have nothing else to do! Rather I can't be assed to do it!)

You could do, but it won't really show anything That's what I was trying to say... The abilities for each heroe are ranked within their series... i'll use this example; The highest someone can be in a skill is 5.

Spider-Man is 4 in strength, and this reflects his ability within the Marvel Universe.

Darkseid is 5 in strength and this reflects his standing within the DC universe.

Now compare those two results... in reality if you were comparing them on a 1 to 5 scale, Spidey would be a 2, 3 at most. This is the problem with comparing the skills of Top Trumps cards; their power will be shown within terms of their own universe, not with the idea of playing them against each other. You CAN use them against each other in the game, but it's not an accurate reflection.

But screw it, go for it. It'll be interesting, as I also have nothing to do... i'm sitting around and waiting for it to be sunday so I can play football

 

[Cyrusbales]

Here's the top trumps stats for the ones I could find in the teams on the first page:

i-intelligence (out of 10)
S=strength (out of 50)
Sp=Speed(out of 20)
A=Agility (out of 30)
F=fighting skills(out of 100)


JLA

Hal jordon(i couldn't find him as GL so i used him as parallax for the stats)
I=4
s=30
sp=11
a=13
f=80

Black canary
I=3
S=15
Sp=4
A=17
F=81


red tornado
I=5
S=35
Sp=12
A=22
F=66

Hawkgirl
I=3
S=27
Sp=7
A=17
F=71

Batman
I=8
S=31
Sp=7
A=17
F=92

Wonder Woman
I=7
S=41
Sp=18
A=19
F=78

Superman
I=7
S=50
Sp=19
A=21
F=87


Avengers

Spidey
I=7
S=36
Sp=11
A=21
F=66

Luke cage
I=3
S=33
Sp=7
A=21
F=61

Iron man
I=6
S=48
Sp=2
A=12
F=85

Cap
I=4
S=29
Sp=6
A=16
F=86

Wolverine
I=5
S=35
Sp=6
A=20
F=95

 

[CanaryFan]

Here's the top trumps stats for the ones I could find in the teams on the first page:

i-intelligence (out of 10)
S=strength (out of 50)
Sp=Speed(out of 20)
A=Agility (out of 30)
F=fighting skills(out of 100)


JLA

Hal jordon(i couldn't find him as GL so i used him as parallax for the stats)
I=4
s=30
sp=11
a=13
f=80

Black canary
I=3
S=15
Sp=4
A=17
F=81


red tornado
I=5
S=35
Sp=12
A=22
F=66

Hawkgirl
I=3
S=27
Sp=7
A=17
F=71

Batman
I=8
S=31
Sp=7
A=17
F=92

Wonder Woman
I=7
S=41
Sp=18
A=19
F=78

Superman
I=7
S=50
Sp=19
A=21
F=87


Avengers

Spidey
I=7
S=36
Sp=11
A=21
F=66

Luke cage
I=3
S=33
Sp=7
A=21
F=61

Iron man
I=6
S=48
Sp=2
A=12
F=85

Cap
I=4
S=29
Sp=6
A=16
F=86

Wolverine
I=5
S=35
Sp=6
A=20
F=95

Those stats are complete BS!

 

[Cyrusbales]

Those stats are complete BS!

i didnt make them, just the messenger, and how is batman stronger than cap?

 

[Harlekin]

I respect that's your opinion but it's not mine.

Uhm, please name oh say, the 7 most popular characters of Marvel, and the 7 most popular characters from DC Comics. Compare their power.

 

[ragingdemon155]

Those stats are so wrong on so many levels.

Spider-man should have been given a 30 in terms of agility and how the heck is he just a point higher then Wolverine? and actually tied with Luke Cage in terms of Agility? Wow.

Spider-man is physically stronger then Luke Cage?

Wolverine is a better fighter then Captain America?

Ahhhh Im not even going to look further.

Those stats are horribly wrong.

 

[Cyrusbales]

Those stats are so wrong on so many levels.

Spider-man should have been given a 30 in terms of agility and how the heck is he just a point higher then Wolverine? and actually tied with Luke Cage in terms of Agility? Wow.

Spider-man is physically stronger then Luke Cage?

Wolverine is a better fighter then Captain America?

Ahhhh Im not even going to look further.

Those stats are horribly wrong.

i just put them up for the sake of it, there's much more wrong with them, but oh well

 

[redlion2]

Uhm, please name oh say, the 7 most popular characters of Marvel, and the 7 most popular characters from DC Comics. Compare their power.

And whose guidelines of comparison would we be using, yours or mine?

 

[Harlekin]

And whose guidelines of comparison would we be using, yours or mine?

Yours. I'd like to see you back your argument up.

 

[Cyrusbales]

We all know superman beats spidey
Cap beats bats
GL beats luke cage/wolverine