Kathryn Bigelow’s 'Zero Dark Thirty'

[redhawk23]

FilmCritHulk sums up the type of characterization in this film quite well.

7. ZERO DARK THIRTY

HULK HONESTLY DIDN’T THINK BIGELOW COULD EVER MAKE A SUBTLE MOVIE. THAT SOUNDS REALLY MEAN, BUT IT’S NOT INTENDED TO BE. HER CINEMA HAS OFTEN BEEN A REFLECTION OF MACHO ADRENALINE RUSHES AND THE SILLINESS OF BRAVADO; POINTED IN SOME WAYS AND SURPRISINGLY EMPTY IN OTHERS. HULK ISN’T EVEN THE BIGGEST FAN OF THE HURT LOCKER, A MOVIE OF STUNNING VISCERAL QUALITIES, BUT IT PRACTICALLY BLUDGEONS YOU WITH ITS TEXTUAL POINT FOR THE ENTIRE RUNNING TIME. MEANWHILE, ZERO DARK THIRTY IS THE EXACT OPPOSITE. A CAREFUL AND INTRICATE GEM ABOUT THE NOTIONS OF PATIENCE, LOSS, FORTITUDE AND DISPLACEMENT. IT MAKES ITS DEEPLY PROFOUND POINTS HIDDEN BENEATH THE VENEER OF ACCURACY AND VÉRITÉ, BUT SADLY THIS INCREDIBLE THOUGHTFULNESS ON THE CONCEPT OF TORTURE, MORALITY AND VENGEANCE ARE GLUGGED UP IN THE BLACK AND WHITE DELUGE OF PUBLIC ARGUMENTATION. FOR HULK, THE ENTIRE POINT OF THIS MOVIE IS SUMMED UP IN A SINGLE MOMENT. WHEN JASON CLARKE’S CHARACTER, CLEARLY AND DEEPLY DISTURBED BY THE AMOUNT OF TORTURE HE HAS DONE IN THE NAME OF DEFENDING AMERICA, HAS REACHED HIS BREAKING POINT, HE SHOWS IT IN HIS EYES… AND THEN SIMPLY PAWNS IT OFF IN A BRIEF MOMENT OF TOUGH GUY, HOMOPHOBIC BROISM, SAYING: “I’M TIRED OF SEEING SO MANY NAKED DUDES.” IT IS AN INCREDIBLE MOMENT OF A CHARACTERIZATION, RENDERING THE EXTERNAL WORDS A MERE REFLECTION OF THE TURMOIL WITHIN. EVERYTHING THE FILM HAS TO SAY ABOUT TORTURE AND OUR ROLE IN IT IS RIGHT THERE. BUT SADLY FOR THIS THRILLING AND SMART FILM, SO MUCH SEEMS TO BE MISSED BENEATH THE SURFACE. A SAD REALITY WHICH MAKES THE ULTIMATE POINT OF ZERO DARK THIRTY ALL THE MORE RESONANT, AS THE SAME SURFACE-LEVEL APPROACH TO OUR NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE IS WHY IT TOOK 11 YEARS TO ACTUALLY CATCH BIN LADEN.

 

[redhawk23]

The movie didn't sell to me that it consumed her whole life. She didn't sell to me that it did. Not when you have someone restraining themselves for 2 and half hours.

You know what is the perfect antithesis for this film? "Serpico"

If you haven't seen it, you should. Pacino plays a cop who is constantly seeing the corruption in New York police department, slowly tries to fight it. And you really see the frustration within him, even when he's restraining himself from others view.

This film has that in spades. Frustration with how the search is going, frustration with how slow moving the agency is and frustration with always being treated as naive. Again just because it doesn't resort to shredding the scenery to do it doesn't mean it isn't there.

Also keep in mind that the film shows that the search is literally the only thing Maya has going for her. The closest thing she has to friends are her co-workers and the apparent dead end of her only lead is held with almost as much weight as the death of her closest companion. She was recruited by the CIA straight from highschool and UBL is the only assignment she's ever had. It makes up the entirety of her adult life.

 

[Carnotaur3]

Also keep in mind that the film shows that the search is literally the only thing Maya has going for her. The closest thing she has to friends are her co-workers and the apparent dead end of her only lead is held with almost as much weight as the death of her closest companion.

A line of dialogue saying she has no friends and this is all she has isn't enough to latch on to. This is the film's biggest issue. It spells it out to you, but it doesn't show it. We have no idea what kind of impact the job has on her social life because the film never really leaves the events of the movie. Having her come home and turning on the television isn't exactly showing us anything. They could have had someone trying to connect with her and she just shuts them down. Doesn't Pacino's girl in Serpico leave him because he can't get away from fighting corrupt cops? This is the clarity I'm talking about and the writing is not up to snuff.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

60% of the characters and their dialogue felt lifeless and unnatural. There were moments where the subtly was done fantastically, but there were other moments where I found it hard to accept that humans (even with military and government training) would talk or act a certain way. The point is, for me, this film lacked humanity.

 

[redhawk23]

A line of dialogue saying she has no friends and this is all she has isn't enough to latch on to. This is the film's biggest issue. It spells it out to you, but it doesn't show it. We have no idea what kind of impact the job has on her social life because the film never really leaves the events of the movie. Having her come home and turning on the television isn't exactly showing us anything. They could have had someone trying to connect with her and she just shuts them down. Doesn't Pacino's girl in Serpico leave him because he can't get away from fighting corrupt cops? This is the clarity I'm talking about and the writing is not up to snuff.

My point was you were acting like they never presented at all when they were in fact too obvious and literal about it. Then again the scene you mention is literally a scene in which someone is attempting to reach out to her, the other female analyst. They certainly communicate on a friendly basis but even that is still based around the search. The only thing these people show excitement for is meeting with new possible moles and information sources. Maya has relationships with people in this film, but they are all through her job, and several of those people are killed or driven away by their work.

 

[Visceral]

Chastain was the weakest point of the film. She wasn't believeable and everything she did felt ridiculously forced.

"I'm the motherf***er who found this place." Dreadful.

and her rampage on Bradley was laughable. I think it's because she over-enunciates when she speaks. I think she is a great actress, but this was not a good performance. Anytime she had to express anger or frustration, she felt very artificial.

Really the film places her at the center of the manhunt/story or whatever, so if you buy her you buy the film. I personally fell asleep.

Her friendship with the other female operative was reduced to a talk about not having sex with other operatives. Its hardly even a conversation and then the bomb goes off. Then when that friend dies, its so predictable. i think that it might be the sloppiest direction I have ever seen from bigelow.

Though I thought the raid was well shot and life like but it was completely devoid of tension. I think anyone who was tense during this film really needs to go on vacation or something. A big problem with the film is that even though the character of Maya may have been hugely influential part in the search for bin laden, you have a film that doesn't have her in the final act. Therefore, we really have no idea who is in the final scenes of the film.

This script would have been better broken up into three different films. One on the controversy of torture, one on the tenacity and intellectual work ethic of Maya, giving us more time to learn and care about her and maybe see why she obsesses over the manhunt, and finally one on the actual men who trained their asses of to execute bin laden.

 

[redhawk23]

By the way, Jason Clarke was fantastic in this film.

 

[redhawk23]

Really the film places her at the center of the manhunt/story or whatever, so if you buy her you buy the film. I personally fell asleep.

Her friendship with the other female operative was reduced to a talk about not having sex with other operatives. Its hardly even a conversation and then the bomb goes off. Then when that friend dies, its so predictable. i think that it might be the sloppiest direction I have ever seen from bigelow.

Though I thought the raid was well shot and life like but it was completely devoid of tension. I think anyone who was tense during this film really needs to go on vacation or something. A big problem with the film is that even though the character of Maya may have been hugely influential part in the search for bin laden, you have a film that doesn't have her in the final act. Therefore, we really have no idea who is in the final scenes of the film.

This script would have been better broken up into three different films. One on the controversy of torture, one on the tenacity and intellectual work ethic of Maya, giving us more time to learn and care about her and maybe see why she obsesses over the manhunt, and finally one on the actual men who trained their asses of to execute bin laden.

Yep major news stories from 3 years ago are pretty damn predictable.

 

[Carnotaur3]

Her friendship with the other female operative was reduced to a talk about not having sex with other operatives. Its hardly even a conversation and then the bomb goes off. Then when that friend dies, its so predictable. i think that it might be the sloppiest direction I have ever seen from bigelow.

It was a terribly forced scene. I was squirming in my seat with the dialogue and acting. I thought the actress opposite Chastain was worse.

 

[Carnotaur3]

My point was you were acting like they never presented at all when they were in fact too obvious and literal about it.

It's not what they present, it's how they present it.

 

[Visceral]

Yep major news stories from 3 years ago are pretty damn predictable.

true, that was my point. So in order to differentiate between a feature film and a news story the film maker usually makes us care about the people who created those stories.

 

[Carnotaur3]

true, that was my point. So in order to differentiate between a feature film and a news story the film maker usually makes us care about the people who created those stories.

 

[redhawk23]

My point was regardless of what was going on with the characters, I knew what happened at Fort Chapman.


God Lincoln was such a crappy film. I saw Abe getting killed at the end from a mile away.

 

[Visceral]

Yeah, someone else said it was tense.

Is there more to that FilmCrithulk post or does he just leave us guessing at what is beneath the surface?

And how self absorbed does one have to be, to use "VENEER OF ACCURACY AND VÉRITÉ,"? I mean seriously, I don't think I'm that stupid, but then again I would have gone with the dip and Velcro bull, so its anyones guess.

 

[Figs]

God Lincoln was such a crappy film. I saw Abe getting killed at the end from a mile away.

 

[Christopher Nolan]

overrated...one word..

 

[redhawk23]

overrated...one word..

Looks at your screenname

Spoiler

I kid, I kid.

 

[redhawk23]

Yeah, someone else said it was tense.

Is there more to that FilmCrithulk post or does he just leave us guessing at what is beneath the surface?

And how self absorbed does one have to be, to use "VENEER OF ACCURACY AND VÉRITÉ,"? I mean seriously, I don't think I'm that stupid, but then again I would have gone with the dip and Velcro bull, so its anyones guess.

The Hulk quote is from his from his top 10 list. I don't think he's gotten around to writing a full review.

As for his self absorbency, he's an internet blogger who writes 20,000 word essays in all caps. Take that for what you will.

 

[Christopher Nolan]

Looks at your screenname

Spoiler

I kid, I kid.

this movie is overrated and jessica chastain overacted..

 

[redhawk23]

If anything she underacted.

She didn't have much to do for much of the film.

 

[Christopher Nolan]

If anything she underacted.

She didn't have much to do for much of the film.

you're wrong, she for sure overacted. i just dont like it when a director trys to shove something down my throat. and in zero dark thirty you could clearly see that bigelow tried to potray a "powerful" woman that can handle all the pressure and all the men who dont take her seriously. and her doings, for example the days on the door she wrote or the dialogue "I'm the motherf.ucker"...points this out. sorry but she failed. and i also think bigelow is overrated and her success comes because she's a woman and once in a while hollywood likes to give them credit, to show that they are friendly and equal.

 

[redhawk23]

Have you considered that the days writing on the door or the mother Fer line, or the woman generally dealing with being treated as a naive little girl in the Agency actually happened in real life?

Its a true freaking story.



And are you sure her success hasn't come about as the result of working hard in hollywood for over 25 years and putting out films that have struck a chord with more than a few people.

To be quite honest you come off as kind of a sexist asshat.

Please go continue watching Nolan put every woman in a fridge as the starting point of the plot of every single one of his films.

 

[Christopher Nolan]

do you have any proof that it really happend? hollywood is fiction and it woulndt be the first time when a director changes things...it is based on true events doesnt mean everything is true...and im not a sexist asshat, just think shes overrated...

and your nolan reference is weak

 

[Carnotaur3]

She didn't overact. She was playing emotion rather than feeling emotion.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

you're wrong

Saying it doesn't make it so. Read up on objectivity & subjectivity a.k.a. 'the not terribly difficult to understand difference between fact and opinion' and get back to us.