Kinect and it's effects on the WORLD.

[Fading]

About pricing, I think Sony and Microsoft are switching positions for this. Sony bundled everything together for the PS3 and launched it for a higher price. With the 360 you had a cheaper, more barebones system making it much more accessible. However Microsoft nickle and dimed you with overprice harddrives, recharge packs since the controllers use batteries, Live, Wi-fi adapters, and so on. A launch PS3 felt like a rip off to many (which the price drop fixed) because not everyone wanted those extra features that drove the price up. However if you did want everything, a 360 was much more expensive.

This time around it looks like a role reversal. Natal/Wave will launch at a higher price point, but virtually be 4 controllers (tho I see 4 player games being a nightmare for it space wise). Where Move will launch much lower, but end up costing more if you want 4 controllers. Now personally, I probably won't be having 4 player Move party sessions. However I'll probably be buying the Move bundle (let's say $80), another Move (let's say $50), and a Navigation (probably around $30). So to get everything I need to be able to use the Move to it's fullest single player wise, and allow a second player I'll roughly be paying Natal/Wave's price. For someone just buying the bundle it will be cheaper, but the more performance you want out of it the more it'll add up.


In the end I think whichever is more expensive will be a more personal question dealing with what you want out of the products.

 

[Solidus]

About pricing, I think Sony and Microsoft are switching positions for this. Sony bundled everything together for the PS3 and launched it for a higher price. With the 360 you had a cheaper, more barebones system making it much more accessible. However Microsoft nickle and dimed you with overprice harddrives, recharge packs since the controllers use batteries, Live, Wi-fi adapters, and so on. A launch PS3 felt like a rip off to many (which the price drop fixed) because not everyone wanted those extra features that drove the price up. However if you did want everything, a 360 was much more expensive.

This time around it looks like a role reversal. Natal/Wave will launch at a higher price point, but virtually be 4 controllers (tho I see 4 player games being a nightmare for it space wise). Where Move will launch much lower, but end up costing more if you want 4 controllers. Now personally, I probably won't be having 4 player Move party sessions. However I'll probably be buying the Move bundle (let's say $80), another Move (let's say $50), and a Navigation (probably around $30). So to get everything I need to be able to use the Move to it's fullest single player wise, and allow a second player I'll roughly be paying Natal/Wave's price. For someone just buying the bundle it will be cheaper, but the more performance you want out of it the more it'll add up.


In the end I think whichever is more expensive will be a more personal question dealing with what you want out of the products.

I agree on many of those points. The thing is though many of the features that were "teased" of the PS3 are now loved. Including free online service. Blu ray is huge now. Sony usually looks more long term. And to me MS has shown again and again they fly by the seat of their pants.

Not saying that is bad, but I still think Sony got very very unnecessary crap mainly from fanboys when it was launched. I'm lucky enough to have all three consoles though, cuz all have great value to me.

As for the Natal stuff you make great points. It's just I don't think many are going to want this. I just foresee so many problems with it. Other objects flying through the room, people walking in and out, people talking to one another and Natal responds to it. To me it just does not seem to jive with video games of today. I just think Natal/Move are trying to move in on other markets but I think Nintendo has claimed most of them pretty tight.

I just really don't see myself getting either of em. If anything yea it may be fun for party games. But living in an apartment while going to college has limited my living space. I just don't think I will be jumping for any of them. I will never say never, but I just have a feeling Sony/MS are gonna miss with it. But I've been wrong before.

 

[Fading]

I agree that Sony did receive more than it's fair share of hate early this gen. Going on the net and admitting you had a PS3 early on almost always was met with a, "Why would you buy a $600 paper weight?", and the "PS3 has no games" argument continued for a long while. I also agree with MS flying by the seat of it's pants. It rushed to the market and had the RROD problems, and threw money at it to fix it, yet even now it still carries that image with cutomers. Now sales for it are sagging quickly, and MS isn't addressing it but instead waiting for E3 hoping devoting an entire press conference to Natal/Wave will solve the problem.



As for Natal, I guess I was just trying to be even handed with that. Didn't want to take my personal feelings in. However I agree, I don't think (and I could be wrong) that it's sales will be stellar past the first couple of million that buy it at launch. I almost hate to say this, but more and more we're seeing that a lot of 360 owners aren't buying anything but FPS, 3rd person shooters, and online games. By that I mean games like Alan Wake have had horrible sales, and even Mass Effect 2 sold less than the first. Meanwhile this year while PS3 exclusives like GOW 3, and Heavy Rain were selling over 1 million, PS3 owners were also buying more multiplat games than the 360 as well (which is a complete turn around considering 360 used to kill the PS3 on multiplat sales). Even Bayonetta which had a vastly superior 360 version sold better on the PS3.

The reason I posted all of that above tho is that it seems anymore that 360 owners aren't buying much out of it's core games. I really don't believe Natal falls into that category. If 360 owners almost refuse to buy casual games, or even great looking 5 year in development games like Alan Wake...I'm not sure they'll buy a $150 device that will probably be casual game heavy. Especially if word of mouth isn't great, or launch titles are crap or scarce. I'm also not a fan of no physical input device. As we saw in the earlier video, it takes 'waggle' to a whole new level. Pulling a trigger to shoot, or jumping and walking forward could be a problem.

I don't think either will net the casual demographic. Nor do I expect anything more than 10 million total sales for both for their entire lifetime (PS3 has 35 million, and the 360 40 million user base currently). Tho I think the difference is that Microsoft (IMO) is betting the barn so to speak on Natal. To them this is a mid console life kicker which will carry them a few years until the launch of their next console. If it fails, I could see Microsoft bumping the release date for it's next system. The PS3 on the other hand already had a huge sales increase after it's price drop, and can still see another price drop and sales increase. To Sony I think the Move will just end up as another add-on, and not something that HAS to work for the PS3 going forward.

 

[Solidus]

I agree that Sony did receive more than it's fair share of hate early this gen. Going on the net and admitting you had a PS3 early on almost always was met with a, "Why would you buy a $600 paper weight?", and the "PS3 has no games" argument continued for a long while. I also agree with MS flying by the seat of it's pants. It rushed to the market and had the RROD problems, and threw money at it to fix it, yet even now it still carries that image with cutomers. Now sales for it are sagging quickly, and MS isn't addressing it but instead waiting for E3 hoping devoting an entire press conference to Natal/Wave will solve the problem.



As for Natal, I guess I was just trying to be even handed with that. Didn't want to take my personal feelings in. However I agree, I don't think (and I could be wrong) that it's sales will be stellar past the first couple of million that buy it at launch. I almost hate to say this, but more and more we're seeing that a lot of 360 owners aren't buying anything but FPS, 3rd person shooters, and online games. By that I mean games like Alan Wake have had horrible sales, and even Mass Effect 2 sold less than the first. Meanwhile this year while PS3 exclusives like GOW 3, and Heavy Rain were selling over 1 million, PS3 owners were also buying more multiplat games than the 360 as well (which is a complete turn around considering 360 used to kill the PS3 on multiplat sales). Even Bayonetta which had a vastly superior 360 version sold better on the PS3.

The reason I posted all of that above tho is that it seems anymore that 360 owners aren't buying much out of it's core games. I really don't believe Natal falls into that category. If 360 owners almost refuse to buy casual games, or even great looking 5 year in development games like Alan Wake...I'm not sure they'll buy a $150 device that will probably be casual game heavy. Especially if word of mouth isn't great, or launch titles are crap or scarce. I'm also not a fan of no physical input device. As we saw in the earlier video, it takes 'waggle' to a whole new level. Pulling a trigger to shoot, or jumping and walking forward could be a problem.

I don't think either will net the casual demographic. Nor do I expect anything more than 10 million total sales for both for their entire lifetime (PS3 has 35 million, and the 360 40 million user base currently). Tho I think the difference is that Microsoft (IMO) is betting the barn so to speak on Natal. To them this is a mid console life kicker which will carry them a few years until the launch of their next console. If it fails, I could see Microsoft bumping the release date for it's next system. The PS3 on the other hand already had a huge sales increase after it's price drop, and can still see another price drop and sales increase. To Sony I think the Move will just end up as another add-on, and not something that HAS to work for the PS3 going forward.

A wonderful wonderful post. I have owned almost every major console since the NES days, (excluding some Sega, and Atari) yet I will not lie I do care for Sony more than most of them. But all of them have value. The thing is that has confused me as well is how 360 owners now for the majority only buy FPS/Action games. Which to me after a while get old. Especially the way they are making some of them today. But I do find it odd that most 360 gamers (not all) are buying just FPS games. Which is one reason I could never just own a 360 I need variety, and the other two consoles have more of that I believe.

I really have no idea how Natal will do. I'm sure at first it will sell well, because of MS hype and the idea of it. I will not lie they have great advertising. Which was one of the failings of the PS3 at launch. (Best Ad ever is still the "PS9" ad for the PS2. I remember seeing that 10 years ago and it still gives me chills. But anywho, I'm sure at first it will sell well, but I think the majority of the 360 audience won't really utilize it if they do get it. I could see it dropping off in sales pretty quickly.

MS will have a good show I'm sure at E3, but I am iffy about Natal (Move as well).

Natal is a wild card, but I have a feeling long term it won't be that big of a deal. I mean the PSEye and EyeToy never sold that well, and never found a big niche. So I kinda think the same will happen here. And the rumored costs are quite high as well. But I will sit back and wait for it.

But for MS I will be more focused on GoW 3 and Halo Reach then Natal.

 

[Soapy]

New video featuring the production model of Natal/Wave. It also shows the rafting game, River Rush, desrcibed before.

[YT]Jm0KKa6wACQ[/YT]

So much funny avatar material there.LOL.

What...what is this? ...I don't even...I just...there are no words...

 

[Tron Bonne]

Man, that video can't be for 100% real, it has to be the participants just really getting into it or something. Everything just looks far too exaggerated to me.

 

[Soapy]

That lady reminds me of Elaine Benes dancing.

Also, it's interesting to note that the kid in the red shirt has no idea what to do.

 

[KALEL114]

It is real. It's a writer for Parade magazine.

http://www.parade.com/news/2010/06/06-how-i-became-an-avatar.html

 

[Tron Bonne]

I know it's real in the sense that they're playing it and stuff, but it seems far too exaggerated the way the adults are playing, like they are trying way too hard or something. Maybe the games just take a lot of effort to play or something.

 

[KALEL114]

Yeah, there was a MS representative there, maybe they asked them to go a bit crazy for the camera. I'm pretty sure they took it a bit too far if that was the case. Lol. Not sure this is the kind of press MS was looking far. I mean the guy even said he smacked his kid on accident while playing.

 

[hippie_hunter]

I agree that Sony did receive more than it's fair share of hate early this gen. Going on the net and admitting you had a PS3 early on almost always was met with a, "Why would you buy a $600 paper weight?", and the "PS3 has no games" argument continued for a long while. I also agree with MS flying by the seat of it's pants. It rushed to the market and had the RROD problems, and threw money at it to fix it, yet even now it still carries that image with cutomers. Now sales for it are sagging quickly, and MS isn't addressing it but instead waiting for E3 hoping devoting an entire press conference to Natal/Wave will solve the problem.



As for Natal, I guess I was just trying to be even handed with that. Didn't want to take my personal feelings in. However I agree, I don't think (and I could be wrong) that it's sales will be stellar past the first couple of million that buy it at launch. I almost hate to say this, but more and more we're seeing that a lot of 360 owners aren't buying anything but FPS, 3rd person shooters, and online games. By that I mean games like Alan Wake have had horrible sales, and even Mass Effect 2 sold less than the first. Meanwhile this year while PS3 exclusives like GOW 3, and Heavy Rain were selling over 1 million, PS3 owners were also buying more multiplat games than the 360 as well (which is a complete turn around considering 360 used to kill the PS3 on multiplat sales). Even Bayonetta which had a vastly superior 360 version sold better on the PS3.

The reason I posted all of that above tho is that it seems anymore that 360 owners aren't buying much out of it's core games. I really don't believe Natal falls into that category. If 360 owners almost refuse to buy casual games, or even great looking 5 year in development games like Alan Wake...I'm not sure they'll buy a $150 device that will probably be casual game heavy. Especially if word of mouth isn't great, or launch titles are crap or scarce. I'm also not a fan of no physical input device. As we saw in the earlier video, it takes 'waggle' to a whole new level. Pulling a trigger to shoot, or jumping and walking forward could be a problem.

I don't think either will net the casual demographic. Nor do I expect anything more than 10 million total sales for both for their entire lifetime (PS3 has 35 million, and the 360 40 million user base currently). Tho I think the difference is that Microsoft (IMO) is betting the barn so to speak on Natal. To them this is a mid console life kicker which will carry them a few years until the launch of their next console. If it fails, I could see Microsoft bumping the release date for it's next system. The PS3 on the other hand already had a huge sales increase after it's price drop, and can still see another price drop and sales increase. To Sony I think the Move will just end up as another add-on, and not something that HAS to work for the PS3 going forward.

I think the biggest problem with Natal is that it so far appears to be incredibly limited. Asides from sports and party games, I really don't see how it's going to be used in regular games like the PlayStation Move will.

 

[KALEL114]

First clear pic of River Rush.

 

[Crook]

Hah, that actually looks pretty cool!

 

[Benstamania]

Our Microsoft rep was in the other day apparently...she didn't really comment on the 149 price when we asked....

 

[KALEL114]

We should know more in about 20 minutes I guess. I think it would be a mistake pricing it that high.

 

[Benstamania]

So do I...wait...what's n 20 minutes? Am I missing something?

 

[KALEL114]

Doh! I got my times mixed up. I was refering to the Natal Event tonight. Pricing and a release date are being announced.

 

[Benstamania]

Oh that's TONIGHT?! Wow, I thought that was Monday.

 

[Dark_Lord]

Yup. 7pm pst. We'll be getting news, but we won't see anything until Tuesday when they'll actually air the event. The main MS conference is tomorrow though.

 

[KALEL114]

CVG is the online site I know that is going to report about it live.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=250741

 

[Dark_Lord]

Check THIS out. Look at the right of the page. There's a flash add that looks like a 360 re-design. What do you think? If it's indeed real. I think it looks nice.

EDIT: Here it is

Comes with a 250GB HDD, built-in WiFi and it's compatible with Kinect. Project Natal's real name?

 

[Donut]

Yup. 7pm pst. We'll be getting news, but we won't see anything until Tuesday when they'll actually air the event. The main MS conference is tomorrow though.

The Natal Event is not going to be live on TV ?

 

[Dark_Lord]

No. Not live. They'll air it on Tuesday.

 

[Donut]

No. Not live. They'll air it on Tuesday.

Well that is stupid since they have to sell it to us the customers & not the press They are probably doing it in case one of their 360s die it is not shown on TV

 

[Flash Facts]

I don't think I like the rumored Kinect name at all.