Legalized Polygamy?

[Varient]

Arguement here at work when we should be troubleshooting Computers:
WHY exactly is Polygamy an issue? A Lonely Geek here started it becuase he read somewhere that there were millions of lonely single russian women who will never be married because there are not enough men. Personally,.. I've known for decades that worldwide the ratio is roughly seven women per man within each generation with it increasing as you go older. You have to wonder how some women feel knowing that they may never find one man and settle down. The question here is why can't women openly share under the eyes of the law,... my first article is from Canada.

[/QUOTE]De-Criminalizing Sinful Acts
In Canada, being married to more than one person is illegal. It is in fact, a criminal offence. Section 293 of the Criminal Code prohibits “any form of polygamy [or] entering into a conjugal union with more than one person at the same time.” The maximum penalty is five years in prison.

While I am certainly not an advocate for polygamists, I fail to understand why it is considered a crime. Laws are intended to prevent harm to society at large. So, it is not really the "marriage" that bothers us is it? Isn't it the multiple relationships that we find abhorrent? If it is the behavior of the polygamist that troubles us - that being that he is not monogamous, then we'd better get busy and make adultry a crime too.


Seriously, a married man (or woman) is within his legal rights to cheat on his or her spouse, with or without said spouse's knowledge. A man is permitted to have sex with multiple partners, separately or all at one time without legal consequences. He is legally entitled to live "in sin" with as many "partners" as he chooses (assuming they too choose him). Society in general, does not advocate such behavior, but we don't prosecute partakers. Why then do we make it a crime for a person to "marry" multiple partners? What difference does it really make if the persons involved in the activity have gone through a "ceremony"?

Perhaps the harm to society comes in the sense of the legal rights and benefits of spouses. I may be viewing this in a very simplistic view, but why couldn't we simply not recognize the multiple spouses? Let them get "married" in their religious ceremony, but when it comes to the "state" you can only claim one spouse. Let's just get out of the bedrooms of consenting adults. Let's allow people to choose how they want to live without governement intervention, but let's protect the real interest of society by recognizing only one legal spouse per person. Isn't that really simple? Am I missing something?


There are those who will say that polygamous communities, such as Bountiful BC, are not only engaging in polygamy, but they are forcing children to marry older men. In my mind, that is a completely separate issue. Sexual abuse of a child should not be confused with polygamy. A child cannot legally consent to sexual relations with adults - period. There are child protection laws to deal with that situation, and I would support aggressive prosecution of any person, polygamist or not, who sexaully abuses or interferes with any child.

Difficult to prove? Of course it is. As a former child protection social worker, I can tell you that sexual abuse of a child is never easy to prove - even outside of religious cults.

If Bountiful’s leaders, Winston Blackmore and Jim Oler are found guilty and imprisoned, what will the financial cost be to society? Will imprisoning these two men put an end to the practise? I can't imagine that it will.


So there you have it... just some of the reasons that support the notion of de-criminalizing Polygamy.

 

[Majin Boo]

if polygamy is legalized then so should be gay marriage.

 

[Majic Walrus]

Just to play the devil's advocate:

What stops people from marrying thousands of illegals so that they can get citizenship? What stops people from marrying thousands of people just for tax breaks?

Both of those really apply to the USA but they're still practical arguments.

In reality though I don't really support any sort of institutionalized marriage. There's no real reason that marriage should be recognized by the state at all. It's a personal matter and should not be touched by the government.

 

[Varient]

if polygamy is legalized then so should be gay marriage.

Based on the first post: "Laws are intended to prevent harm to society at large."

I ask the question: "Does / Can gay marriage cause harm to society?"
Hard look please,.. no pat "of course" answers because I can SEE how Polygamy can harm society as it currently exists - there would have to be changes.


V.

 

[Majin Boo]

Based on the first post: "Laws are intended to prevent harm to society at large."

I ask the question: "Does / Can gay marriage cause harm to society?"

no .

 

[Varient]

Just to play the devil's advocate:

What stops people from marrying thousands of illegals so that they can get citizenship? What stops people from marrying thousands of people just for tax breaks?

Both of those really apply to the USA but they're still practical arguments.

In reality though I don't really support any sort of institutionalized marriage. There's no real reason that marriage should be recognized by the state at all. It's a personal matter and should not be touched by the government.

Well,.. I suppose there must be some control. One Illegal spouse per citizen but the rest don't matter? One "official spouse" for tax purposes with the rest as legal dependents? I don't know how that would have to be worked out.
Personally,.. if I were stunned by a blunt object and then seriously considered having more than one wife - I would follow the model where #1 wife is in charge of the household with #2 being subordinate to her.

Marriage is fine and dandy (outside of religious reasons) for reserving societal perks that starting families need,....

BUT.

 

[Varient]

no .

Sigh.
Ask for no Pat answer - and get a one word response.

 

[Majin Boo]

Sigh.
Ask for no Pat answer - and get a one word response.

ok .

 

[Varient]

In Russia:
Russia May Legalize Polygamy for “10 Million Lonely Women”

By Hilary White

MOSCOW, January 13, 2006 (LifeSiteNews.com) - The polygamy trend is catching on around the world. In an interview with a Russian radio station, Ramzan Kadyrov, a militia leader and Deputy Prime Minister of the Chechen Republic, said that the depopulation of Chechnya by war justifies legalizing polygamy.

“(Polygamy) is necessary for Chechnya, because we have war. We have more women than men,” the pro-Moscow Kadyrov told Ekho Moskvy radio. The Muslim Chechen rebels are fighting to gain independence from Russia and are largely of the fundamentalist Wahabist sect.

In response to the suggestion, Vladimir Zhirinovsky, Deputy speaker of the State Duma, said the idea of introducing legal polygamy in Chechnya is “absolutely right,” and proposed to spread it for the whole of Russia.

“We must welcome (this idea) and spread (polygamy) for the whole Russia because we have 10 million lonely women.”

Zhiriniovsky said it is necessary to “allow the registration of the second and the third marriages without dissolving the first one. We will surely introduce such an amendment to the family code and to the Russian Constitution during the parliament’s spring session.”

Many commenters are warning of the effects on women of the “Islamicization” of Europe. Already in some European Union countries, the traditional protections for women and families are being undermined by demands of the growing Muslim population for the adoption of aspects of Islamic “Sharia” law, including polygamy.

In November 2005, Norway’s Directorate of Immigration (UDI) reported that despite its illegality, polygamy is becoming increasingly prevalent in the country. Similar reports are coming from France and the Netherlands has legalized the practice in spite of the recent anti-Muslim backlash in that country.

Today, the Canadian Liberal government revealed that the Canadian federal Justice Department has recommended legalizing polygamy.

 

[Timstuff]

if polygamy is legalized then so should be gay marriage.

A lot of people have said the same thing, only the other way around. If one of them is legalized, it's pretty inevitable that the other will eventually follow, which is part of why there is such fierce opposition to both.

A Lonely Geek here started it becuase he read somewhere that there were millions of lonely single russian women who will never be married because there are not enough men.

Maybe it's time to pay Russia a visit...

 

[Varient]

*Comment*
In regards to the obvious bad reasons why Polygamy is "against the law":
1. Some believe that it reduces women to "property."
2. Some believe that it forces women to compete for the attentions of one man.
3. Some believe it makes for a poor child raising enviroment.
4. Some believe that is a "Musilumication" (Made up word) that is the foot in the door for that faith to take over the world.

I don't agree with any of it because I've seen that it works in other places w/o any of these issues.

 

[Majin Boo]

*Comment*
In regards to the obvious bad reasons why Polygamy is "against the law":
1. Some believe that it reduces women to "property."
2. Some believe that it forces women to compete for the attentions of one man.
3. Some believe it makes for a poor child raising enviroment.
4. Some believe that is a "Musilumication" (Made up word) that is the foot in the door for that faith to take over the world.

I don't agree with any of it because I've seen that it works in other places w/o any of these issues.

4. some mormons practice polygamy

 

[Majic Walrus]

Well,.. I suppose there must be some control. One Illegal spouse per citizen but the rest don't matter? One "official spouse" for tax purposes with the rest as legal dependents? I don't know how that would have to be worked out.
Personally,.. if I were stunned by a blunt object and then seriously considered having more than one wife - I would follow the model where #1 wife is in charge of the household with #2 being subordinate to her.

Marriage is fine and dandy (outside of religious reasons) for reserving societal perks that starting families need,....

BUT.

What is the point in marriage if we're going to limit someone to one "official" wife and then legal dependents? Wouldn't it be just as easy to just live with your husbands and wives and bone like crazy?


I don't think things should be illegal if they do not harm other people but I also don't see reasons for making legal provisions that are useless.

 

[MaskedManJRK]

I really don't see any problem with legalizing same-sex marriage or polyamory (the catch-all term for multiple people being married). Really, as long as everyone can and do properly consent to such a deal, it's really not the government's business how people live their lives.

 

[Varient]

A lot of people have said the same thing, only the other way around. If one of them is legalized, it's pretty inevitable that the other will eventually follow, which is part of why there is such fierce opposition to both.



Maybe it's time to pay Russia a visit...

I'm thinking (Listening to the arguement locally over great take out) that If it were "allowed" that we would have to slap the same restrictions we put onto marriage now.

(Age limits, etc,...)

 

[enterthemadness]

single Russian women, huh?

 

[Varient]

4. some mormons practice polygamy

Truth.
And they are considered bad/evil/aweful abusers of women too.


I don't follow that it would be a bad thing if we did watch out for the pitfalls.

 

[chaseter]

I have seen Big Love. I want that I also want to be Bill Paxton.

 

[bullets]

I'm ok with just one woman nagging me .

 

[The Battousai]

I don't think things should be illegal if they do not harm other people but I also don't see reasons for making legal provisions that are useless.

This

 

[Paradoxium]

I think it will be the betas who will get screwed by polygamy; basically get even less choices. I am with the view the state has no business handing marriage "contracts" and thus dispose of all legal and tax benefits.

 

[Majic Walrus]

This

Thanks.

 

[Aluchak]

I think they should just kill every girl baby so that more boy babies can grow up and it will be equal.
problem solved.

 

[The Battousai]

...

 

[Carcharodon]

Personally,.. I've known for decades that worldwide the ratio is roughly seven women per man within each generation with it increasing as you go older.

Lolwut?