Lessons

[Jack O'Lantern]

That makes evil a bit too commonplace then,don't you think?

No, I think that evil is very commonplace.

 

[Abaddon]

That sounds a little too simplistic.

 

[Mee]

Paris Hilton making an album.

 

[Kritish]

Raping cats with a chainsaw.

 

[Mee]

Raping cats with a chainsaw.

That's just messy.

 

[Abaddon]

A healthy BUMP

 

[Man-Thing]

What's your defenition Abaddon?

 

[Abaddon]

I don't have one.

 

[War Lord]

The most objective evidence I can think of is whether or an action ultimately contributes to life or takes away from it.

Good ultimately contributes to life and evil takes away from it.

I find this definition works fairly well, almost perfectly.

It even allows for the differential of what might be considered evil actions, but are really good ones overall.

 

[Abaddon]

The most objective evidence I can think of is whether or an action ultimately contributes to life or takes away from it.

Good ultimately contributes to life and evil takes away from it.

I find this definition works fairly well, almost perfectly.

It even allows for the differential of what might be considered evil actions, but are really good ones overall.

I'll have to chew on this one a bit before I decide whether I should agree or not.

 

[War Lord]

I'll have to chew on this one a bit before I decide whether I should agree or not.

I have yet to find a situation where I couldn't differentiate between good or evil or all matter of inbetweens by this definition.

 

[Abaddon]

We shall see!

 

[War Lord]

We shall see!

I'm still kinda young, so take your time and do proper research.

 

[Danalys]

okay i'm changing my definition to all the things that shorten lives. somethings are good or evil depending on the amount tho.

 

[Abaddon]

It actually sounds similar to Danalys' definition,but we'll see how it works out.I'll warm up by throwing a few scenarios at you:

Scenario 1
A family of three goes on a hiking trip. An accident occurs and the three are left dangling helplessly. The mother is closest to reaching safety and begins trying to regain her footing. Her husband a bit further down, is trying to save their child's life putting himself in a worse position. The mother has an oppurtunity to save her husbands life but at the expense of her child.She trust her husband to do what he can to save the child,but her mind is racing and she cannot make a clear decision.The father urges her to try and save their child.She tells him she needs to first gain a better footing or they'll all be killed,but her husband tells her he doesn't have the strength to continue holding his child.The mother chooses to first save herself,and both father and child plummet to their deaths.

Scenario 2
A woman is dying of throat cancer.Her estranged,divorced daughter is being put on the street and she doesnt have the money to support herself or her children.The daughter performs euthanasia so she can collect her mothers inheritance and provide a home and a means of living for herself and her offspring.




Also,does this rule strictly apply to actions or can it apply to people?

 

[Danalys]

i said all things. people are good or evil at times. but it often because of some other evil or missunderstanding.

in your first scenario it is the paniced mind that causes the problem.

in the second not living carefully enough by the mother. unless the societies problems led to the cancer by putting people in dangerous situations.

that's as far as the information can lead you at least.

 

[Man-Thing]

The reason why I think people find it hard to come up with a defenition of evil, that doesn't include a description of evil (as in murdering/stealing ect.) is because our conscience is programmed to the standard of what is good, but not to what is evil. What I mean by that statement is that we can clearly see in nature herself with our conscience that things aren't as they should be. We have tornadoes, cancer, AIDS ect. All of these are evils of nature.

On the other hand, we feel outrage from acts of violence done to innocent people, we despise the thief, and we disassociate ourselves from the dishonest. These are moral evils, and just like evils of nature, we feel with our emotions through the working of the conscience that these things shouldn't be. We have police, militarys and judicial systems to help combat the moral evils, and likewise we have scientist, doctors and meterologist to combat the evils of nature. Still though, through all the efforts of the race of man, we still have these evils in the world, and our conscience constantly reminds us that things are not as they should be.

I'm reminded of something I read once where the author said that we know what evil is, but it is conditonal upon us knowing what is good. For instance, what if someone had a piece of paper, and on that paper there was a line drawn. The person gives you the piece of paper, you look at it, and as you look at it they tell you "this is a straight line"

_/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\__ <------This line is not straight.

But how can someone know that it isn't straight, but by automatically recalling what a straight line is supposed to be like...

___________________________________<------This line is straight.

Just like how you automatically knew that the first line wasn't straight through your recollection of what should be straight, we can usually understand what is evil by knowing that it isn't good through the working of our conscience. Therefore, to understand what is evil it is dependant upon what is good and the manipulation of that which is good to determine infact which is evil.

Evil is dependant upon good to exist, but it is not good- but a manipulation of it. When I say a manipulation of it, I mean that some of the characteristics of what make something good are taken away or even twisted. An example would be planting a garden and eating it's produce. This would be good, whereas if you robbed the person who planted, tilled and harvested the garden this would be evil, because you are avoiding taking into consideration their work and in effect taking away a charateristic of what is good. Thus you have manipulated the standard of which should be good, and made evil.

Therefore Evil is dependant upon Good to exist, but Good isn't dependant upon Evil to exist, because Evil is a manipulaiton of what is Good. This is reminded to us by our conscience because when speaking about good or evil we say things like "shouldn't be", or "should be". Good is perfection, whereas Evil is flawed perfection. I believe that throughout the history of man there has been embedded within his conscience the constant reminder that things are not as they should be, and people do things they shouldn't.

However, I believe that through constantly disregarding your conscience, you will train yourself automatically do this on impulse. This is why I think so many people today do the things that make ourselves say "Things shouldn't be this way".

 

[Abaddon]

i said all things. people are good or evil at times. but it often because of some other evil or missunderstanding.

in your first scenario it is the paniced mind that causes the problem.

in the second not living carefully enough by the mother. unless the societies problems led to the cancer by putting people in dangerous situations.

that's as far as the information can lead you at least.

I actually meant that for Jonty,I was typing up the post when you responded after him.

But while we're on it,in the second scenario there isn't enough evidence to suggest what role the mother had in the daughters life.You'll have to elaborate what you mean by societies problems.

 

[War Lord]

I actually meant that for Jonty,I was typing up the post when you responded after him.

But while we're on it,in the second scenario there isn't enough evidence to suggest what role the mother had in the daughters life.You'll have to elaborate what you mean by societies problems.

I'll be happy to address your hypothetical scenarios later, but I'm busy doing some word processing.

 

[Danalys]

we know they are astranged. that is enough to know that parenting failed at somepoint. is this the mothers fault or her mothers fault or other peoples fault difficult to say. the society is faulty because it doesn't teach how to live effectively enough. if people see the benefits in the good choices through education they will follow it.

 

[Abaddon]

The reason why I think people find it hard to come up with a defenition of evil, that doesn't include a description of evil (as in murdering/stealing ect.) is because our conscience is programmed to the standard of what is good, but not to what is evil. What I mean by that statement is that we can clearly see in nature herself with our conscience that things aren't as they should be. We have tornadoes, cancer, AIDS ect. All of these are evils of nature.

On the other hand, we feel outrage from acts of violence done to innocent people, we despise the thief, and we disassociate ourselves from the dishonest. These are moral evils, and just like evils of nature, we feel with our emotions through the working of the conscience that these things shouldn't be. We have police, militarys and judicial systems to help combat the moral evils, and likewise we have scientist, doctors and meterologist to combat the evils of nature. Still though, through all the efforts of the race of man, we still have these evils in the world, and our conscience constantly reminds us that things are not as they should be.

I'm reminded of something I read once where the author said that we know what evil is, but it is conditonal upon us knowing what is good. For instance, what if someone had a piece of paper, and on that paper there was a line drawn. The person gives you the piece of paper, you look at it, and as you look at it they tell you "this is a straight line"

_/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\__ <------This line is not straight.

But how can someone know that it isn't straight, but by automatically recalling what a straight line is supposed to be like...

___________________________________<------This line is straight.

Just like how you automatically knew that the first line wasn't straight through your recollection of what should be straight, we can usually understand what is evil by knowing that it isn't good through the working of our conscience. Therefore, to understand what is evil it is dependant upon what is good and the manipulation of that which is good to determine infact which is evil.

Evil is dependant upon good to exist, but it is not good- but a manipulation of it. When I say a manipulation of it, I mean that some of the characteristics of what make something good are taken away. An example would be planting a garden and eating it's produce. This would be good, whereas if you robbed the person who planted, tilled and harvested the garden this would be evil, because you are avoiding taking into consideration their work and in effect taking away a charateristic of what is good. Thus you have manipulated the standard of which should be good, and made evil.

Therefore Evil is dependant upon Good to exist, but Good isn't dependant upon Evil to exist, because Evil is a manipulaiton of what is Good. This is reminded to us by our conscience because when speaking about good or evil we say things like "shouldn't be", or "should be". Good is perfection, whereas Evil is flawed perfection. I believe that throughout the history of man there has been embedded within his conscience the constant reminder that things are not as they should be, and people do things they shouldn't.

However, I believe that through constantly disregarding your conscience, you will train yourself automatically do this on impulse. This is why I think so many people today do the things that make ourselves say "Things shouldn't be this way".

Very interesting and well thought out. However I have one question: Do you believe good and evil has an actual presence,or that they are simply functions originating in the human mind?

 

[Man-Thing]

prescence...

I believe in God and the Devil if that's what your asking.

 

[Man-Thing]

The most objective evidence I can think of is whether or an action ultimately contributes to life or takes away from it.

Good ultimately contributes to life and evil takes away from it.

I find this definition works fairly well, almost perfectly.

It even allows for the differential of what might be considered evil actions, but are really good ones overall.

So is God commiting evil when he casts people into the Lake of Fire?

 

[War Lord]

So is God commiting evil when he casts people into the Lake of Fire?

You're talking to a person who doesn't define Hell as a place of eternal suffering. The Bible defines Hell as a place of punishment, not punishing.

Ultimately, the purpose of the Hellfire is to cleanse the Earth of all evil, so no it is not an evil act that God is performing. When He does that final act, the Earth will be cleansed.

 

[Man-Thing]

You're talking to a person who doesn't define Hell as a place of eternal suffering. The Bible defines Hell as a place of punishment, not punishing.

Ultimately, the purpose of the Hellfire is to cleanse the Earth of all evil, so no it is not an evil act that God is performing. When He does that final act, the Earth will be cleansed.

I was pointing out that your definiton doesn't include acts of justice or instances of self-defense.