Luck vs Skill: Longshot

[ShadowBoxing]

Longshots powers are perhaps the most impossible to quantify since he influences the outcomes of dangerous events in his favor, yet despite his luck is still put in danger. I have been wondering, and it urks me to create this thread...so lets keep it civilized....how he would fair against Batman. Batman is easily the most skilled human I can think of off the top of my head, but DareDevil, Iron Fist and perhaps Cap also work here. You see the problem is the classic belief is that skilled people create their OWN luck, but in the case of Longshot we have a person where skill is not a necassary condition. Would a massive amount of skill overpower Longshot, or is Longshot potentially another mutant who could be raised well above the shoulders of most non metas.

 

[Elijya]

There are several characters who also possess this same 'luck' ability, the other most notable one being Domino, whose powers were always described as "things tend to fall into place for her." It's never appeared to be a consciously activated ability, more like safety net, an aura, or it's set on automatic. Plus, even without those abilities, both Domino and Longshot do appear to possess decent amounts of skill. If their powers were to be taken away, I don't think they would be completely helpless.

I recall an issue of X-Force where the team was on a plane that was going down, when it suddenly leveled off and made a safe crash landing. Perplexed, someone asked if it was Domino's doing, but she said nothing that big has ever been affected by her powers. Then we see Longshot is onboard the plane. Obviously, it was his presense that caused that.

That leads me to believe their 'luck' powers are quantifiable, and Longshot is at the highest end of the spectrum, he can affect large things and events around him. Domino always seems to use it personally, when combating. It's almost like Spider-Sense, if she jumps through the air, she's sure to land, and any bullets fired at her will be instinctively dodged.

That being said, I have seen at least one opponent (Nimrod) analyze Dominos abilities, and cause a chain of events too complex for her luck powers to keep up with, and knock her out. So it is possible to get ahead of the ability, but someone like Longshot would be pretty tough. Hand to hand, I don't think Batman could take him.

There's an old saying: "Tis better to be fortunate than wise."

 

[The Question]

Longshots powers are perhaps the most impossible to quantify since he influences the outcomes of dangerous events in his favor, yet despite his luck is still put in danger. I have been wondering, and it urks me to create this thread...so lets keep it civilized....how he would fair against Batman. Batman is easily the most skilled human I can think of off the top of my head, but DareDevil, Iron Fist and perhaps Cap also work here. You see the problem is the classic belief is that skilled people create their OWN luck, but in the case of Longshot we have a person where skill is not a necassary condition. Would a massive amount of skill overpower Longshot, or is Longshot potentially another mutant who could be raised well above the shoulders of most non metas.

Well, here's the deal with him being put in danger:


A guy is swimming. A shark atacks him. He's bitten, his leg is proken, and he looses alot of blood. But, he's able to get away, and he survives. Now, is he lucky that he survived the atack, or is he unlucky because the shakr atacked him in the first place?


Well, that's how Vaughn explained it in Ultimate X-Men, and it made sense to me.

 

[POWdER-man]

Another character with "luck" powers was Black Cat. Although I am not sure if she still possess them.

Although she didn't have good luck powers she gave other people bad luck....which in turn gave her goo luck, except for anyone she cared for since she couldn't control it...

 

[Harlekin]

Well Longshot's powers were always bound to the innocence of his actions. If he was pure of heart while doing them, carrying noble intentions, things would fall in his favour.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Well Longshot's powers were always bound to the innocence of his actions. If he was pure of heart while doing them, carrying noble intentions, things would fall in his favour.

Would defending himself fall into this category do you think, I mean its not noble in the sense that its for a greater good...but it certainly could be considered a virtue by some.

 

[rjb182]

^ I would think you have to go to an extra level of motive. Defending yourself is pretty neutral on the surface of it, so...

Is he doing it so that he can fight on and continue to protect and serve others?

Or is he doing it just so he won't get his pretty face messed up?

The latter case is certainly understandable, but not really pure or innocent, so I don't think his luck powers would come into play...

 

[The Question]

Another character with "luck" powers was Black Cat. Although I am not sure if she still possess them.

She doesn't. She and Spidey went to Dr. Strange because her powers were hurting people. He changed them to cat powers. She later lost those, and now wears some weird high tech suit that makes her stronger and more agile (the technology for which, interestingly enough, actually does exist).

 

[Vanguard07]

It's better to be lucky than good.

Longshot'd win over bats or cap provided his luck powers were working.
But how can he claim to be acting selflessly when he's still continually hurting those of us with eyes by wearing his damn mullet?

 

[Roughneck]

Shamrock also has luck powers... but her's go bothways. She get's good luck while others she'd fighting can get bad luck.

 

[Dew k. Mosi]

Longshot would win over Bats, because he is not only preternaturally lucky, but he is bred for combat, and agility. The real conflict lies in the fact that Longshot would very likely not fight Bats. He is an innocent, which gives him his powers and, Batman, as the world's greatest detective, would most likely be able to figure out that Longshot is as harmless as a child.

 

[Roughneck]

Plus Batman has the whole Extra finger thing.

 

[rjb182]

Something I just thought of:

Has the mechanism behind Longshot's luck ever been explained? I'm asking because I've never understood how a "probability-altering" power would work... is it possible that what he actually does is instinctively analyze his situation and unconsciously change the outcome with some kind of low-level telepathy/telekenesis?

If so, it wouldn't be luck vs. skill, but conscious skill vs. unconscious skill.

Oh, and also... Batman could be luckier with prep time. He just needs a LOT of four-leaf clovers...

 

[Elijya]

"luck" is something that is purely theoretical and not in the least bit provable in the real world. Where would you even begin looking for it's source? No, in the world of comics, if it says someone has luck or probability powers, you just go with it

 

[The Question]

Actually, the whole "schrodinger's cat" theory might apply here. For those who don't know, the theory states that the universe is made up of an infinite number of possible outcomes to any one situation, and reality is simply the possibilities that we see. Now, theoretically, if Longshot somehow subonsciously tunes into these possibilities that we don't se and chooses the one that helps him the most, then he may be subonsciously altering reality on a small scale. Of course, that's just a theory, and it might be complete bull****.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Actually, the whole "schrodinger's cat" theory might apply here. For those who don't know, the theory states that the universe is made up of an infinite number of possible outcomes to any one situation, and reality is simply the possibilities that we see. Now, theoretically, if Longshot somehow subonsciously tunes into these possibilities that we don't se and chooses the one that helps him the most, then he may be subonsciously altering reality on a small scale. Of course, that's just a theory, and it might be complete bull****.

I like it.

 

[The Question]

That's supposedly how the Scarlet Witch's powers work aswell, except, obviously, on a much larger scale.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Not anymore. She's got your standard reality manipulation now.

The Schroedinger's cat theory is the basis of Arcanna's powers over in Supreme Power. I think she was described as a "quantum sorceress" or something, but her powers aren't magical, she's simply able to manipulate the myriad possible outcomes of a given situation. The scene where she tried to describe the Schroedinger's cat theory to Shape was pretty funny.

 

[The Question]

Not anymore. She's got your standard reality manipulation now.

Yeah. I'm just saying, I'd guess that that's how reality manipulation would work.

 

[Silicon Surfer]

Longshot is also superhumanly strong, fast, and agile. His luck powers were originally not tied to his innocence. His powers gave him good luck when he needed it but caused a balancing amount of bad luck at a later time. He is highly skilled at combat.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

What the hell ever happened with him and Dazzler? They were like the greatest hair metal couple ever, but now they're off in different dimensions doing other stuff with nary a mention of each other.

 

[Elijya]

at one point, Dazzler was pregnant, then we saw the X-Babies a few years later, and Dazzler came to pick them up, and Jean said she didn't sense the baby anymore, which sounded like a laying fo the groundwork for a mystery to be dealt with later that never was

then she appeared in Deadpool and was back to being a pop star, but I don't think any mention of Longshot was made

 

[Elijya]

according to MCP, these are Dazzler's last couple of appearances

X 47
XFOR 60
XFOR 61
LSHOT2 1-BTS
XBR
UX 392
X 112
UX 393
X 113
DPOOL3 67


and these are Longshot's

XFOR 59
XFOR 60
XFOR 61
LSHOT2 1

 

[Vanguard07]

Also Longshot in Exhiles

 

[Elijya]

is he THE Longshot, or an other dimensional Longshot?