"Make America Great Again!": The TRUMP Thread!!! - - - - - - - Part 16

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[phillyboy]

What is so bad about this latest SNL sketch that he suddenly feels it's also a conspiracy against him? What about all the ones before?

Because anything in the media post-Billy Bush tapes is a conspiracy against him.

Never mind all the free press he got for 15 months prior- the media is now Evil. I guess we didn't get the memo.

 

[DeadPresident]

What?

So essentially you've got the left and the right, colloquially called liberals and conservatives. Both have positive beliefs they espouse in regard to certain issues. The "general" liberals and conservatives are two benign groups, both of which have been hijacked by the extremist minority within each ideology, popularly referred to as the regressive left and the alt right (although I'd say regressive left/right seems neater).

The alt right is characterized by pro-white/Christian (in the cultural sense)/nativist rhetoric, while the regressive left is characterized by non-white/non-Christian/non-nativist rhetoric. Both have bastardized and usurped the values initially held by their parties. The regressive left around Europe and North America specifically is becoming increasingly popular and increasingly irrational with its anti-Western sentiments, probably built on the back of this narrative that all the world's ills are as a result of European colonialism over the course of the previous X centuries.

So if I refer to the regressive left or regressive right, I'm not describing either the left or right as being regressive, I mean the regressive exponents within both political ideologies.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Because anything in the media post-Billy Bush tapes is a conspiracy against him.

Never mind all the free press he got for 15 months prior- the media is now Evil. I guess we didn't get the memo.

Yep.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

The alt right is dangerous.

They're supported by right wing militias, the klan, neo nazis, neoconfederates, racist bikers, etc

Far more dangerous than any major segment supporting Hillary or Bernie.

Trump gave them a voice and now they're hoping for a violent revolution or race war.

None of this violence would be happening with Kasich/Jeb/Rubio vs Hillary.

 

[InCali]

With the arrest of the "Radical Christian Terrorists" in Kansas, and now the fire bombing of a GOP HQ in North Carolina, this election is not going to end well.

Ugh....I hadn't heard about either of these events and it sickens me. I've said it before and, once more, I'll say it again; ANY time you get a large group of people together, there are most likely going to be some crazies. We hear all about "radical Islamic terrorists", but less often we hear about how self professed "Christians" commit, or plan to commit, atrocities. Let's call these people who maim and kill innocents what they are; @$$#0les who have no place in any society.

 

[DeadPresident]

The alt right is dangerous.

They're supported by right wing militias, the klan, neo nazis, neoconfederates, racist bikers, etc

Far more dangerous than any major segment supporting Hillary or Bernie.

Trump gave them a voice and now they're hoping for a violent revolution or race war.

None of this violence would be happening with Kasich/Jeb/Rubio vs Hillary.

Indeed they are, but you appear to be deliberately ignoring the increasing extremism coming from the radicals in groups like BLM.

It's pertinent to remember the alt-right has been allowed to fester for over a decade, since Bush junior's tenure I'd say. The regressive leftists have only come to the fore in maybe the last 3 or 4 years. Given the same amount of time both groups will hit levels of irrationality and stupidity we haven't seen before. I'd say the primary reason why the alt-right types will outweigh the regressive leftists, though, is by pure numbers.

That said, each action has an equal and opposite reaction, given enough time the extremist left will match the right, it's just a matter of it building up to a head.

 

[Dark Raven]

I do hope SNL make fun of Trump for thinking SNL is part of the rigging. But are they more likely to focus on the 3rd debate since that will be on Wednesday?

 

[DeadPresident]

Ugh....I hadn't heard about either of these events and it sickens me. I've said it before and, once more, I'll say it again; ANY time you get a large group of people together, there are most likely going to be some crazies. We hear all about "radical Islamic terrorists", but less often we hear about how self professed "Christians" commit, or plan to commit, atrocities. Let's call these people who maim and kill innocents what they are; @$$#0les who have no place in any society.

To be fair the Christian terrorists haven't perpetrated hundreds of incidents across the globe over the last 15 years.

Both are morally equivalent but not pragmatically equivalent.

Also, even though people want to pretend it isn't the case, a society will always be more tolerant of domestic terrorism (from an identity group perspective) rather than foreign terrorism. Nation states are built on the premise of in-group/out-group dynamics, for better and worse.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

To be fair the Christian terrorists haven't perpetrated hundreds of incidents across the globe over the last 15 years.

Both are morally equivalent but not pragmatically equivalent.

Also, even though people want to pretend it isn't the case, a society will always be more tolerant of domestic terrorism (from an identity group perspective) rather than foreign terrorism. Nation states are built on the premise of in-group/out-group dynamics, for better and worse.

Yes, but since has being Muslim meany you are foreign? Even those who are American citizens are treated differently simply for being Muslim. And we have had plenty of terrorism caused by Christians here. More often then any other group.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Indeed they are, but you appear to be deliberately ignoring the increasing extremism coming from the radicals in groups like BLM.

It's pertinent to remember the alt-right has been allowed to fester for over a decade, since Bush junior's tenure I'd say. The regressive leftists have only come to the fore in maybe the last 3 or 4 years. Given the same amount of time both groups will hit levels of irrationality and stupidity we haven't seen before. I'd say the primary reason why the alt-right types will outweigh the regressive leftists, though, is by pure numbers.

That said, each action has an equal and opposite reaction, given enough time the extremist left will match the right, it's just a matter of it building up to a head.

There's no comparison.

The alt right won the Republican primaries.

There's no way black militants could win the Democrat primaries.

Black militants are far removed from the Democratic Party. They're on the fringes of BLM which is on the fringes of the Democrats.

 

[DeadPresident]

Yes, but since has being Muslim meany you are foreign? Even those who are American citizens are treated differently simply for being Muslim. And we have had plenty of terrorism caused by Christians here. More often then any other group.

Because if people are really honest with one another then they'd admit that "foreign" doesn't actually refer exclusively to race as much as it refers to culture. If we look at isolated cases of the 3rd and 4th generation European Muslims who went to join ISIS then we'd see a concrete case of a French/English/German citizen who was "foreign" in the cultural sense.

That's the primary case people are making in regard to Islam, several of the prominent academics and activists being Muslim themselves; Islam in its current guise is culturally incompatible with the progressive nature of Western society.

The biggest global issue is that various cultures are engaging with one another en masse for the first time, and we're seeing the clear differences and incompatibilities come to the fore. There is no escaping the fact that Islam the way it is right now is simply not going anywhere, it doesn't need a qualitative study to determine the Middle East and Western Europe/North America are water and oil. There are several key Muslim proponents suggesting Islamic reform, and they are enthusiastically being shouted down by white leftists as well as the bulk of the Islamic world.

 

[DeadPresident]

There's no comparison.

The alt right won the Republican primaries.

There's no way black militants could win the Democrat primaries.

Black militants are far removed from the Democratic Party. They're on the fringes of BLM which is on the fringes of the Democrats.

That's a fair assessment. My prediction, perhaps biased, is that after 10 or so years of being on the fringe they'll take over the host too - the same way the alt-right has managed to usurp the Republican party. Unfortunately there are very few liberals speaking out against the ideologically radical section of their own party, the same way there was nobody on the Republican side speaking out against the minority radicals several years ago.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

The alt right is dangerous.

They're supported by right wing militias, the klan, neo nazis, neoconfederates, racist bikers, etc

Far more dangerous than any major segment supporting Hillary or Bernie.

Trump gave them a voice and now they're hoping for a violent revolution or race war.

None of this violence would be happening with Kasich/Jeb/Rubio vs Hillary.

I regret saying anybody would be better than Ted Cruz.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

DeadPrez are you familiar with the horseshoe theory? I read about it on Reddit the other day. Basically, it states that the extreme sides of either party have more in common than with the base of the party. So the extreme on either side would be the ends of either side of the horseshoe that is closer to each other than the curve.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Because if people are really honest with one another then they'd admit that "foreign" doesn't actually refer exclusively to race as much as it refers to culture. If we look at isolated cases of the 3rd and 4th generation European Muslims who went to join ISIS then we'd see a concrete case of a French/English/German citizen who was "foreign" in the cultural sense.

That's the primary case people are making in regard to Islam, several of the prominent academics and activists being Muslim themselves; Islam in its current guise is culturally incompatible with the progressive nature of Western society.

The biggest global issue is that various cultures are engaging with one another en masse for the first time, and we're seeing the clear differences and incompatibilities come to the fore. There is no escaping the fact that Islam the way it is right now is simply not going anywhere, it doesn't need a qualitative study to determine the Middle East and Western Europe/North America are water and oil. There are several key Muslim proponents suggesting Islamic reform, and they are enthusiastically being shouted down by white leftists as well as the bulk of the Islamic world.

This would matter if we didn't have laws that supersede religion. We do. If you are Muslim and can't live by US law, you end up in jail or you leave. It is the same with all religion.

Islamic reform is an odd thing to pitch in the West, because if you are in the West, that is an automatic thing.

 

[DeadPresident]

DeadPrez are you familiar with the horseshoe theory? I read about it on Reddit the other day. Basically, it states that the extreme sides of either party have more in common than with the base of the party. So the extreme on either side would be the ends of either side of the horseshoe that is closer to each other than the curve.

I hadn't heard that specific term before, but it makes complete sense as a metaphor, yeah. Since this election cycle began I felt like the extreme exponents from both parties were essentially two sides of the same coin. Both are equally irrational, and both are merely trying to win ground for their respective identity/demographic groups.

The unfortunate part is the vocal minorities end up setting the agenda and the reasonable middle of the horse shoe is ineffectual because they don't shout over the irrational children dominating the conversation.

It's one of the reasons I don't take anyone's defense of the regressive left or right seriously, they're effectively the exact same thing, you just swap out a few arbitrary identity categories. People should be discrediting both of them, but they aren't (predictably), they just give a pass to whichever side they technically fall into in terms of identities they share with it.

 

[DeadPresident]

This would matter if we didn't have laws that supersede religion. We do. If you are Muslim and can't live by US law, you end up in jail or you leave. It is the same with all religion.

Islamic reform is an odd thing to pitch in the West, because if you are in the West, that is an automatic thing.

Hmm, perhaps in the USA I'd say you're right, yeah, but the rate at which Europe is being cowed into forsaking the defense of the sovereignty of its own culture is somewhat alarming.

The numbers aren't high enough to be a statistical threat in the US yet, but in Europe it's going to become a very relevant topic within the next decade likely. I'd also say Islamic reform would be relevant for the US indirectly, the same way that Catholics generally follow what the Vatican dictates, Muslims all over the world would follow suit if notable Imams and Islamic leaders implemented some kind of reform, or even started having conversations in that direction.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

That's a fair assessment. My prediction, perhaps biased, is that after 10 or so years of being on the fringe they'll take over the host too - the same way the alt-right has managed to usurp the Republican party. Unfortunately there are very few liberals speaking out against the ideologically radical section of their own party, the same way there was nobody on the Republican side speaking out against the minority radicals several years ago.

I doubt it.

Angry white men are a significant part of the republican party.

And most of their rhetoric is geared toward them. It's been that way for many decades.

I'd say most democratic rhetoric is geared to independent women and the working underclass.

Angry black supremacist who want to kill police are at the very bottom of the list.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

DeadPrez are you familiar with the horseshoe theory? I read about it on Reddit the other day. Basically, it states that the extreme sides of either party have more in common than with the base of the party. So the extreme on either side would be the ends of either side of the horseshoe that is closer to each other than the curve.

I definitely see the horseshoe theory applying to the far right vs jihadist.

Patriarchal? Check

Hawkish? Check

Overzealous? Check

Homophobic? Check

Violent? Check

Hateful? Check

Idiotic? Double check

 

[Lighthouse]

Once again, Trump has tweeted something insanely irresponsible about the NC GOP HQ firebombing.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

http://www.cracked.com/article_24393_8-insane-donald-trump-moments-world-totally-forgot.html

This article on Cracked is pretty insane. There is just so much wrong with this guy.

I definitely see the horseshoe theory applying to the far right vs jihadist.

Patriarchal? Check

Hawkish? Check

Overzealous? Check

Homophobic? Check

Violent? Check

Hateful? Check

Idiotic? Double check

Well, Jihadist aren't a political party here in the USA. The horseshoe theory says that extreme conservatives have more in common with the extreme liberals than either have with the core/base of their respective party.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

What is the core base of the Republican party at this point? One of the major problems I see is that the base of the Republican party has become more and more extreme.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

What is the core base of the Republican party at this point? One of the major problems I see is that the base of the Republican party has become more and more extreme.

Yeah I'd argue the Democrat base is center left and the Republican base is far right.