Superman Returns Making the audience care about Superman and the characters in his universe

[retconned]

Well, before I get started with the topic of this thread, Ill be willing to bet that this will end up in the complaint threads, and yes, I know there is one of those, so if you remind me, I'll kill you . But, as a disclaimer, I want to note that this little thread Im starting is actually more of an observation after two viewings, and yes I went back tonight because my little cousin was visting and wanted to see the film. But anyway, it's an observation on my part, but Im approaching it in a slightly negative way, due to my dislike for most of the film, but my undenying love for the character of Superman.

So to be blunt, I think this film did a horrible job of making the audience actually give a damn about the title character, or any character in the film for that matter. Sure, if your a Donner fanboy, or just a Superman lover who was excited to see him on the big screen for the first time in ages, you probably just didn't notice do to said blinding love for Superman or the fact that your bond was established in Donner's film. But, for the people who hadn't seen or didn't really like Superman The Movie, for movie goers who only knew of Superman as a pop culture icon, or for people who, and not to sound preentious, are to smart to be fooled by lack of able writing, this film did not make the emotional bridge that is necessary for a viewer to invest emotion into Superman, Lois, Jason, etc etc.

In a film that deals with a character like Superman, who is the perfect hero power wise and virtually invulnerable, this film needed to be one of two things. Either a balls to the walls popcorn action movie ala POTC2, or a character driven, emotionally stimulating movie, which is what Returns tried, and ultimately failed, to do.

When watching the movie, it felt like the characters were just thrown on screen with no rhyme or reason, and the audience had the story thrown in it's face with no regard to creating a bond between the characters and the audience, so that we know what there feeling or thinking. And I know that alot of Smallville scenes with Clark and Ma Kent were cut out of the film, but judging by the emotionless writing that this film had, I doubt a real connection would have been made there as well, but atleast we would have known what was going through Clark's head. And Lois, don't even get me started on the shallowness that was Lois Lane in the film, and again, I blame that on the writers. On screen, Lois seemed truly void of any and all emotion, which some will try to pass off as bitterness about Superman leaving, but it was shown in a very unmoving or untouching way. The audience should actually feel sorry for Lois Lane while at the same time understanding Superman's decision to elave Earth, but in the end Lois came off as a walking zombie with zero emotional depth. Jason was basically the typical cute kid, nothing more, nothing less. Hell, the character you felt the most for was Richard White, and excuse my french, thats f#cked up. This film didn't give the audience ANY emotional depth on the main characters in this film, no reason to love and feel for them, which is essential when doing a character flick, what this film tried to be.

Not to mention, this film also gave no real reason to hate Lex Luthor, and don't point to the New Krypton mugging of Superman, because he, as I have stated, was giving no depth, therefor making it harder to care for the character.

I think the Vague History, a dumb ass idea by Singer and his wack pack of fools, really hurt the film in this department. No real backstory was provided, and I don't care how well liked Superman The Movie was, the main reason being Christopher Reeve by the way, you cannot expect the majority of the audience to connect with Returns because it bases everything off of a 28 year old film.

I know Im not supposed to talk about Smallville on this board, but it plays into this post, sort of. I believe, I truly do, that the reason there are people out there who want Tom Welling as Superman and want his story continued, it's not because they hate Brandon Routh or that there idiots who don't know anything about the character. Its that they have emotionally invested in his Clark Kent for the last five years. They give a damn about that Clark Kent. It would touch some people more by seeing that Clark Kent become Superman than watching Brandon Routh and saying, who the hell is that guy. Some people have that connection with Welling and they have been given NO REASON to care for Routh's Superman outside of knowing that it's the same guy that Reeve portrayed, and remember, 28 years. Say what you want, but it's the truth.

In closing, very poor job by Singer and the writers with the overall writing and the non-existend emotional depth they gave to the characters. Do I expect to sway everyone to my line of thinking. Hell No. This post will get blown off by half the people here as hater material. Whatever. Doesn't hurt my feelings one bit.

And you probably saying, is this guy as crazy about every film as he is this one. No Im not, with a flick like POTC2, I was expecting popcorn fluff fun, and it delivered. I was happy. But this film should have been more all things considering, and it wasn't, and that lack of emotional connection, plus the lack of action, culminated in the bad box office.

 

[casketmouth]

Well, before I get started with the topic of this thread, Ill be willing to bet that this will end up in the complaint threads, and yes, I know there is one of those, so if you remind me, I'll kill you . But, as a disclaimer, I want to note that this little thread Im starting is actually more of an observation after two viewings, and yes I went back tonight because my little cousin was visting and wanted to see the film. But anyway, it's an observation on my part, but Im approaching it in a slightly negative way, due to my dislike for most of the film, but my undenying love for the character of Superman.

So to be blunt, I think this film did a horrible job of making the audience actually give a damn about the title character, or any character in the film for that matter. Sure, if your a Donner fanboy, or just a Superman lover who was excited to see him on the big screen for the first time in ages, you probably just didn't notice do to said blinding love for Superman or the fact that your bond was established in Donner's film. But, for the people who hadn't seen or didn't really like Superman, for movie goers who only knew of Superman as a pop culture icon, or for people who, and not to sound preentious, are to smart to be fooled by lack of able writing, this film did not make the emotional bridge that is necessary for a viewer to invest emotion into Superman, Lois, Jason, etc etc.

In a film that deals with a character like Superman, who is the perfect hero power wise and virtually invulnerable, this film needed to be one of two things. Either a balls to the walls popcorn action movie ala POTC2, or a character driven, emotionally stimulating movie, which is what Returns tried, and ultimately failed, to do.

When watching the movie, it felt like the characters were just thrown on screen with no rhyme or reason, and the audience had the story thrown in it's face with no regard to creating a bond between the characters and the audience, so that we know what there feeling or thinking. And I know that alot of Smallville scenes with Clark and Ma Kent were cut out of the film, but judging by the emotionless writing that this film had, I doubt a real connection would have been made there as well, but atleast we would have known what was going through Clark's head. And Lois, don't even get me started on the shallowness that was Lois Lane in the film, and again, I blame that on the writers. On screen, Lois seemed truly void of any and all emotion, which some will try to pass off as bitterness about Superman leaving, but it was shown in a very unmoving or untouching way. The audience should actually feel sorry for Lois Lane while at the same time understanding Superman's decision to elave Earth, but in the end Lois came off as a walking zombie with zero emotional depth. Jason was basically the typical cute kid, nothing more, nothing less. Hell, the character you felt the most for was Richard White, and excuse my french, thats f#cked up. This film didn't give the audience ANY emotional depth on the main characters in this film, no reason to love and feel for them, which is essential when doing a character flick, what this film tried to be.

Not to mention, this film also gave no real reason to hate Lex Luthor, and don't point to the New Krypton mugging of Superman, because he, as I have stated, was giving no depth, therefor making it harder to care for the character.

I think the Vague History, a dumb ass idea by Singer and his wack pack of fools, really hurt the film in this department. No real backstory was needed, and I don't care how well liked Superman The Movie was, the main reason being Christopher Reeve by the way, you cannot expect the majority of the audience to connect with Returns because it bases everything off of a 28 year old film.

I know Im not supposed to talk about Smallville on this board, but it plays into this post, sort of. I believe, I truly do, that the reason there are people out there who want Tom Welling as Superman and want his story continued, it's not because they hate Brandon Routh or that there idiots who don't know anything about the character. Its that they have emotionally invested in his Clark Kent for the last five years. They give a damn about that Clark Kent. It would touch some people more by seeing that Clark Kent become Superman than watching Brandon Routh and saying, who the hell is that guy. Some people have that connection with Welling and they have been given NO REASON to care for Routh's Superman outside of knowing that it's the same guy that Reeve portrayed, and remember, 28 years. Say what you want, but it's the truth.

In closing, very poor job by Singer and the writers with the overall writing and the non-existend emotional depth they gave to the characters. Do I expect to sway everyone to my line of thinking. Hell No. This post will get blown off by half the people here as hater material. Whatever. Doesn't hurt my feelings one bit.

And you probably saying, is this guy as crazy about every film as he is this one. No Im not, with a flick like POTC2, I was expecting popcorn fluff fun, and it delivered. I was happy. But this film should have been more all things considering, and it wasn't, and that lack of emotional connection, plus the lack of action, culminated in the bad box office.

amen...to every single syllabol...amen brother!!!!!!!

POTC even made us care about the comic relief guys. hell...I even cared for the craken...lol!!!! wait a minute I cared about the dog and everything, for real lol!!! I even like rachel dawes in BEGINS better than LOIS, now that's bad!!!!!

 

[Galactical]

eh i skimmed it...

After some thought, i conclude now that it's a case of a film pretending to be something that it's essentially not. Hulk's story is not shakespearian no matter how Ang Lee tried to artsy it up and make it seem deeper than it is with all the psycho-babble and such. at its core it's a story about an ordinary scientist, with little to no personal issues, saving some guy one day because he's a good person, and getting screwed over with gamma radiation that scars him terribly so he becomes another of Marvel's tortured heros.

This simple nature was Pimped with all sorts of stuff the audience just didn't give a poo about and the movie though I thought it was good didn't click with them. I do see why. Lots of artsyness was added and artificially deep drama to make it seem like friggin gone with the wind, when it's a story about a superhero who's big and green and says stuff like "hulk smash." To take it to that level of seriousness and treat it like some tale that will change our lives seems ridiculous. it really is.

Here we have a superman being treated much the same as the hulk. While it seems deep and artsy and emotional, all that stuff, at its core it's a story about a alien sent to earth, raised by some farmers who decides to put on some unique costume and fight crime. it's not high art or liturature. So when it's treated as such, it becomes wacky how seriously a corny hero like superman is being sold as the next jesus christ. He's corny. The donner movies knew it. We all know it. It's a joke sometimes for lois to point out how corny Superman is, but he is and always should personify the best qualities of all mankind no matter how corny he is. in this movie with its forced drama showing superman as a peeping tom, conflicted and angsty guy grabbing a beer, I didn't feel like I was watching superman anymore. God it feels dirty to say that.

Singer, a story about guy fighting crime with his underwear on the outside is not that serious.

What every character, heck the whole movie, seems to lack (except jimmy and richard i admit) is charm. unfortunately superman's too somber to be charming or funny like he used to be. I didn't think much of him.

Lois, well you know. she's pissed about something most of the time in this... her scene with supes in the hospital was nice though.

The kid? Cuteness can only get you so far little man. you seem braindead most of the time.

Lex? this guy's a bore.

kitty? she's stupid and i don't like her

who else...

well I guess that's the lot. The key players are few in this story, and the ones we're supposed to care for most are the least charismatic.

the Richard guy would have made the better superman now that I think about it.

 

[BatFitz]

Why isn't all of this in the complaints thread yet?

 

[retconned]

Why isn't all of this in the complaints thread yet?

DID YOU NOT READ THE FIRST PARAGRAPH?

 

[Lestat74]

Well, before I get started with the topic of this thread, Ill be willing to bet that this will end up in the complaint threads, and yes, I know there is one of those, so if you remind me, I'll kill you . But, as a disclaimer, I want to note that this little thread Im starting is actually more of an observation after two viewings, and yes I went back tonight because my little cousin was visting and wanted to see the film. But anyway, it's an observation on my part, but Im approaching it in a slightly negative way, due to my dislike for most of the film, but my undenying love for the character of Superman.

So to be blunt, I think this film did a horrible job of making the audience actually give a damn about the title character, or any character in the film for that matter. Sure, if your a Donner fanboy, or just a Superman lover who was excited to see him on the big screen for the first time in ages, you probably just didn't notice do to said blinding love for Superman or the fact that your bond was established in Donner's film. But, for the people who hadn't seen or didn't really like Superman The Movie, for movie goers who only knew of Superman as a pop culture icon, or for people who, and not to sound preentious, are to smart to be fooled by lack of able writing, this film did not make the emotional bridge that is necessary for a viewer to invest emotion into Superman, Lois, Jason, etc etc.

In a film that deals with a character like Superman, who is the perfect hero power wise and virtually invulnerable, this film needed to be one of two things. Either a balls to the walls popcorn action movie ala POTC2, or a character driven, emotionally stimulating movie, which is what Returns tried, and ultimately failed, to do.

When watching the movie, it felt like the characters were just thrown on screen with no rhyme or reason, and the audience had the story thrown in it's face with no regard to creating a bond between the characters and the audience, so that we know what there feeling or thinking. And I know that alot of Smallville scenes with Clark and Ma Kent were cut out of the film, but judging by the emotionless writing that this film had, I doubt a real connection would have been made there as well, but atleast we would have known what was going through Clark's head. And Lois, don't even get me started on the shallowness that was Lois Lane in the film, and again, I blame that on the writers. On screen, Lois seemed truly void of any and all emotion, which some will try to pass off as bitterness about Superman leaving, but it was shown in a very unmoving or untouching way. The audience should actually feel sorry for Lois Lane while at the same time understanding Superman's decision to elave Earth, but in the end Lois came off as a walking zombie with zero emotional depth. Jason was basically the typical cute kid, nothing more, nothing less. Hell, the character you felt the most for was Richard White, and excuse my french, thats f#cked up. This film didn't give the audience ANY emotional depth on the main characters in this film, no reason to love and feel for them, which is essential when doing a character flick, what this film tried to be.

Not to mention, this film also gave no real reason to hate Lex Luthor, and don't point to the New Krypton mugging of Superman, because he, as I have stated, was giving no depth, therefor making it harder to care for the character.

I think the Vague History, a dumb ass idea by Singer and his wack pack of fools, really hurt the film in this department. No real backstory was provided, and I don't care how well liked Superman The Movie was, the main reason being Christopher Reeve by the way, you cannot expect the majority of the audience to connect with Returns because it bases everything off of a 28 year old film.

I know Im not supposed to talk about Smallville on this board, but it plays into this post, sort of. I believe, I truly do, that the reason there are people out there who want Tom Welling as Superman and want his story continued, it's not because they hate Brandon Routh or that there idiots who don't know anything about the character. Its that they have emotionally invested in his Clark Kent for the last five years. They give a damn about that Clark Kent. It would touch some people more by seeing that Clark Kent become Superman than watching Brandon Routh and saying, who the hell is that guy. Some people have that connection with Welling and they have been given NO REASON to care for Routh's Superman outside of knowing that it's the same guy that Reeve portrayed, and remember, 28 years. Say what you want, but it's the truth.

In closing, very poor job by Singer and the writers with the overall writing and the non-existend emotional depth they gave to the characters. Do I expect to sway everyone to my line of thinking. Hell No. This post will get blown off by half the people here as hater material. Whatever. Doesn't hurt my feelings one bit.

And you probably saying, is this guy as crazy about every film as he is this one. No Im not, with a flick like POTC2, I was expecting popcorn fluff fun, and it delivered. I was happy. But this film should have been more all things considering, and it wasn't, and that lack of emotional connection, plus the lack of action, culminated in the bad box office.

You make your points pretty well, but I have to say that I'm one of those Donner fanboys, so in many ways this movie was tailor made for me ( and poeple of my generation, I was 4 when it came out ) I guess I did connect with Lois in this movie because I projected....I know what it's like to suddenly have the love of your life thrust back into your life after you've moved on. But we all have that certain person we never really move on from. To me, that first love is always idealized in your head, you always mis-remeber them and make them perfect and they never really are. You make them Superman ( well, Supergirl for most of you I imagine ) So in that sense I totally connected.

And Galactical, I respect your opininon, and I realize that when Hulk and Superman were created, no one thought about their psychological underpinnings, they just wanted an entertaining story. But when these stories endure the way they have for decades, they essentially become Mythology, and all Myths should be examined beyond their surface entertainment value.

 

[Octoberist]

my brian (dies)

 

[casketmouth]

You make your points pretty well, but I have to say that I'm one of those Donner fanboys, so in many ways this movie was tailor made for me ( and poeple of my generation, I was 4 when it came out ) I guess I did connect with Lois in this movie because I projected....I know what it's like to suddenly have the love of your life thrust back into your life after you've moved on. But we all have that certain person we never really move on from. To me, that first love is always idealized in your head, you always mis-remeber them and make them perfect and they never really are. You make them Superman ( well, Supergirl for most of you I imagine ) So in that sense I totally connected.

And Galactical, I respect your opininon, and I realize that when Hulk and Superman were created, no one thought about their psychological underpinnings, they just wanted an entertaining story. But when these stories endure the way they have for decades, they essentially become Mythology, and all Myths should be examined beyond their surface entertainment value.

yeah but done properly like Batman begins, not like Singer did SR...Begins had plenty action and you can tell there were no scenes designed just for Batman action. Everything Batman did added to the story and meant a whole lot. Every superman scene was a way to just give him camera time. The guy had no REAL purpose until...wait...he never did.

 

[Octoberist]

The whole 'Metopolis Earthquake' scenes were underwhelming and a bit forced. It's a way to show off Superman's powers I guess...but that Daily Planet globe scene could of been cooler if Superman didn't have to hold up that neon billboard sign the scene before.

 

[Galactical]

You make your points pretty well, but I have to say that I'm one of those Donner fanboys, so in many ways this movie was tailor made for me ( and poeple of my generation, I was 4 when it came out ) I guess I did connect with Lois in this movie because I projected....I know what it's like to suddenly have the love of your life thrust back into your life after you've moved on. But we all have that certain person we never really move on from. To me, that first love is always idealized in your head, you always mis-remeber them and make them perfect and they never really are. You make them Superman ( well, Supergirl for most of you I imagine ) So in that sense I totally connected.

And Galactical, I respect your opininon, and I realize that when Hulk and Superman were created, no one thought about their psychological underpinnings, they just wanted an entertaining story. But when these stories endure the way they have for decades, they essentially become Mythology, and all Myths should be examined beyond their surface entertainment value.

Thanks for respecting my opinion. That NEVER HAPPENS most of the time.

I respect yours too though I disagree. It's not mythology. It's not that deep or widely known like the bible. I don't believe there's a college course set up for Superman Mythology even. Decades is nothing compared to hundreds even thousands of years that myths have survived and had entire cultures base on them and which superman probably bases itself but it in itself is as much a myth as mickey mouse. To the fanboy it's probably religious, to the average joe, it's a fun diversion.

 

[SatEL]

You make your points pretty well, but I have to say that I'm one of those Donner fanboys, so in many ways this movie was tailor made for me ( and poeple of my generation, I was 4 when it came out ) I guess I did connect with Lois in this movie because I projected....I know what it's like to suddenly have the love of your life thrust back into your life after you've moved on. But we all have that certain person we never really move on from. To me, that first love is always idealized in your head, you always mis-remeber them and make them perfect and they never really are. You make them Superman ( well, Supergirl for most of you I imagine ) So in that sense I totally connected.

And Galactical, I respect your opininon, and I realize that when Hulk and Superman were created, no one thought about their psychological underpinnings, they just wanted an entertaining story. But when these stories endure the way they have for decades, they essentially become Mythology, and all Myths should be examined beyond their surface entertainment value.

The thing i dont get is this films superman is nothing like the Donner superman it feels completely diffrent from that versions who was more lighter and more emotional stable.

 

[Lestat74]

Thanks for respecting my opinion. That NEVER HAPPENS most of the time.

I respect yours too though I disagree. It's not mythology. It's not that deep or widely known like the bible. I don't believe there's a college course set up for Superman Mythology even. Decades is nothing compared to hundreds even thousands of years that myths have survived and had entire cultures base on them and which superman probably bases itself but it in itself is as much a myth as mickey mouse. To the fanboy it's probably religious, to the average joe, it's a fun diversion.

Well, it's not literally Mythology in the strictest sense...you're right about that. But I know I'm far from the first person to use the term "Modern Mythology" when referring to the classic super heroes. And while I'm not 100% sure, I know I've read about several university courses on Comic Book/Sci-Fi heroes. And I know for sure in England there have been courses on the metaphors of Buffy, so believe me, one on Super Heroes in not that far fetched. When I say "Mythology" I don't mean actual religion, I mean the way Mary Shelley's Frankenstein has become a Myth in the same way Dracula and Werewolves, although it's not based on Folklore at all, it's based on one woman's book but has evolved into it's own Myth with it's own interpretations.

 

[retconned]

You make your points pretty well, but I have to say that I'm one of those Donner fanboys, so in many ways this movie was tailor made for me ( and poeple of my generation, I was 4 when it came out ) I guess I did connect with Lois in this movie because I projected....I know what it's like to suddenly have the love of your life thrust back into your life after you've moved on. But we all have that certain person we never really move on from. To me, that first love is always idealized in your head, you always mis-remeber them and make them perfect and they never really are. You make them Superman ( well, Supergirl for most of you I imagine ) So in that sense I totally connected.

And Galactical, I respect your opininon, and I realize that when Hulk and Superman were created, no one thought about their psychological underpinnings, they just wanted an entertaining story. But when these stories endure the way they have for decades, they essentially become Mythology, and all Myths should be examined beyond their surface entertainment value.

I just wanted to let you know I respect our opinion on this matter, thank you for explaining your stance on the movie like a respectable person.

Although I am a fairly young college kid, I also know what it is like to have your first love basically walk out on you, how you can't let them go no matter how hard you try, and I personally didn't feel this movie showed that properly, but again I respect your opinions and feelings toward the film, ecspecially considering that you grew up with Donner's film, it makes sense that you would find joy in this film.

 

[Lestat74]

I just wanted to let you know I respect our opinion on this matter, thank you for explaining your stance on the movie like a respectable person.
quote]

Thanks. I certainly don't mind someone disagreeing with me on the movie, I even agree on some levels. I mean, you make good arguments for your stance. My problem is that so many who don't like the movie is that their argument is usually something like "I didn't like it because Superman didn't fight Doomsday/Bizarro/Darkseid/whatever" and when they say something like that, it just sends their credibility out an airlock. I am a huge comics/animation fanboy but it seems so many don't understand the difference between live action films and comics. Where a Mxyzptlck appearance makes me smile in the comics, it would certainly make me groan in a movie.

 

[retconned]

I just wanted to let you know I respect our opinion on this matter, thank you for explaining your stance on the movie like a respectable person.
quote]

Thanks. I certainly don't mind someone disagreeing with me on the movie, I even agree on some levels. I mean, you make good arguments for your stance. My problem is that so many who don't like the movie is that their argument is usually something like "I didn't like it because Superman didn't fight Doomsday/Bizarro/Darkseid/whatever" and when they say something like that, it just sends their credibility out an airlock. I am a huge comics/animation fanboy but it seems so many don't understand the difference between live action films and comics. Where a Mxyzptlck appearance makes me smile in the comics, it would certainly make me groan in a movie.

Im right there with you. It's those people that, for the most part, give haters a bad name. It's why people like me have to explain time and time again are reasons for not liking the film. Even if this film had one of those named characters, it still would have been bad because Singer and his writers would have still failed to connect with the audience, imo.

I place the blame for this film on how the script was written and how the story that was told did not connect with the audience.

A film is all about presentation.

 

[Immortalfire]

my brian (dies)

Poor Brian. When's his funeral?

 

[bane]

You people sould be banned from the boards for making new threads every day about "How much i hate SR" or "How much it SUCKS"....You can simply write posts in the already made threads, not make a new ones!

 

[darthbakpao]

pardon my English...

retconned : You said it the best, this is exactly what i think of the movie... shallow and emotionless "drama", i never care about the characters at all

how ironic when the most emotional moment you could get was the opening title with William's theme, not something from the acting or story...

 

[FantasticThing]

Close this redundant thread!

This isn't the place for Smallville discussion. Smallville belongs on the SMALL screen.

And just so you know SR was a "character driven, emotionally stimulating movie" and you have no idea what you're taking about. Face facts.

May your thread die a quick death.

 

[Mr. Socko]

Well, before I get started with the topic of this thread, Ill be willing to bet that this will end up in the complaint threads, and yes, I know there is one of those, so if you remind me, I'll kill you . But, as a disclaimer, I want to note that this little thread Im starting is actually more of an observation after two viewings, and yes I went back tonight because my little cousin was visting and wanted to see the film. But anyway, it's an observation on my part, but Im approaching it in a slightly negative way, due to my dislike for most of the film, but my undenying love for the character of Superman.

So to be blunt, I think this film did a horrible job of making the audience actually give a damn about the title character, or any character in the film for that matter. Sure, if your a Donner fanboy, or just a Superman lover who was excited to see him on the big screen for the first time in ages, you probably just didn't notice do to said blinding love for Superman or the fact that your bond was established in Donner's film. But, for the people who hadn't seen or didn't really like Superman The Movie, for movie goers who only knew of Superman as a pop culture icon, or for people who, and not to sound preentious, are to smart to be fooled by lack of able writing, this film did not make the emotional bridge that is necessary for a viewer to invest emotion into Superman, Lois, Jason, etc etc.

In a film that deals with a character like Superman, who is the perfect hero power wise and virtually invulnerable, this film needed to be one of two things. Either a balls to the walls popcorn action movie ala POTC2, or a character driven, emotionally stimulating movie, which is what Returns tried, and ultimately failed, to do.

When watching the movie, it felt like the characters were just thrown on screen with no rhyme or reason, and the audience had the story thrown in it's face with no regard to creating a bond between the characters and the audience, so that we know what there feeling or thinking. And I know that alot of Smallville scenes with Clark and Ma Kent were cut out of the film, but judging by the emotionless writing that this film had, I doubt a real connection would have been made there as well, but atleast we would have known what was going through Clark's head. And Lois, don't even get me started on the shallowness that was Lois Lane in the film, and again, I blame that on the writers. On screen, Lois seemed truly void of any and all emotion, which some will try to pass off as bitterness about Superman leaving, but it was shown in a very unmoving or untouching way. The audience should actually feel sorry for Lois Lane while at the same time understanding Superman's decision to elave Earth, but in the end Lois came off as a walking zombie with zero emotional depth. Jason was basically the typical cute kid, nothing more, nothing less. Hell, the character you felt the most for was Richard White, and excuse my french, thats f#cked up. This film didn't give the audience ANY emotional depth on the main characters in this film, no reason to love and feel for them, which is essential when doing a character flick, what this film tried to be.

Not to mention, this film also gave no real reason to hate Lex Luthor, and don't point to the New Krypton mugging of Superman, because he, as I have stated, was giving no depth, therefor making it harder to care for the character.

I think the Vague History, a dumb ass idea by Singer and his wack pack of fools, really hurt the film in this department. No real backstory was provided, and I don't care how well liked Superman The Movie was, the main reason being Christopher Reeve by the way, you cannot expect the majority of the audience to connect with Returns because it bases everything off of a 28 year old film.

I know Im not supposed to talk about Smallville on this board, but it plays into this post, sort of. I believe, I truly do, that the reason there are people out there who want Tom Welling as Superman and want his story continued, it's not because they hate Brandon Routh or that there idiots who don't know anything about the character. Its that they have emotionally invested in his Clark Kent for the last five years. They give a damn about that Clark Kent. It would touch some people more by seeing that Clark Kent become Superman than watching Brandon Routh and saying, who the hell is that guy. Some people have that connection with Welling and they have been given NO REASON to care for Routh's Superman outside of knowing that it's the same guy that Reeve portrayed, and remember, 28 years. Say what you want, but it's the truth.

In closing, very poor job by Singer and the writers with the overall writing and the non-existend emotional depth they gave to the characters. Do I expect to sway everyone to my line of thinking. Hell No. This post will get blown off by half the people here as hater material. Whatever. Doesn't hurt my feelings one bit.

And you probably saying, is this guy as crazy about every film as he is this one. No Im not, with a flick like POTC2, I was expecting popcorn fluff fun, and it delivered. I was happy. But this film should have been more all things considering, and it wasn't, and that lack of emotional connection, plus the lack of action, culminated in the bad box office.

Ret strikes again

I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[SuperDaniel]

I think the real problem of SR is that is too predictable and there`s no climax. WE ALL KNOW SUPERMAN IS GOING TO SAVE THE WORLD AND SOLVE EVERYTHING IN THE END. We all knew Superman was going to save Richard, Lois and Jason in the boat, so the scenes has zero impact. We all knew
Superman was going to save Metropolis so those scenes are just there for the cool factor. We all knew Superman wasn`t going to die. We all knew Jason was Superman`s son. The story simply doesn`t work. Superman in the movie is just the big boy scout who doesn`t fail, who saves everybody.

Singer negleted to show some intelligence. He took out the hero out of the Super in my opinion and foccused too much in the man. There are no great lessons about hope, the ideals of a hero. Its just a romantic story with a stupid villain plot and Superman IS WAY MORE than this. He negleted to show`s society relation to Superman. The theme "Must there be a Superman?" wasnt shown at all. In one scene maybe. Superman`s flight with Lois. But thats not enough.

Now lets take the example of WHY Donner changed the ending of Superman the movie. IN STM originally, if you guys don`t know, Lois wasnt supposed to die. In the end Superman saves everybody, saves lois, arrests Luthor and thats it. So, THERE IS NO REAL CONFLICT!!! There is no Climax.

Lesson number 1 of storytelling( I know this because i took a lot of classes about this). The story has to have a huge point of dramaticity near the end. Something that there is no way back. Everything is going to be wrong.

For example, take Usual suspects and the ending where we discover who is Keyser Soze. Or Forrest Gump when Jenny dies. Or Empire Strikes back when Luke discovers he is the son of DaRTH Vader. Or even Titanic when Jack Dawson saves Roses life and dies. Those are classic examples of great emotional dramas.

Now take Superman the movie. Lois Lane dies in the end. Theres no way back. LOIS IS DEAD!!! Who would ever predict that? Superman saved everybody but the person he most loved. Theres no way out of this? But Superman finds a way! HE IS SUPERMAN. He does the impossible!! He goes back in time(As many of you hate the ending but i don`t), disobeys his father`s words to not interfere, and does it because of Love. Superman becomes human in the end because he has the greatest human emotion. LOVE. He is the human alien.

SR doesn`t have any of this. Its too predictable. Thats why its not a classic.

 

[retconned]

You people sould be banned from the boards for making new threads every day about "How much i hate SR" or "How much it SUCKS"....You can simply write posts in the already made threads, not make a new ones!

If I can recall my original post here, I don't remember making it a I hate SR thread, ass face. I made this thread to point out one of the main reason's that it failed, not to simply say that it sucks. There was no thread on this subject, I made one, deal with it.

Don't post here again until you re-read my original post and you wish to debate on the subject at hand.

 

[retconned]

Close this redundant thread!

This isn't the place for Smallville discussion. Smallville belongs on the SMALL screen.

And just so you know SR was a "character driven, emotionally stimulating movie" and you have no idea what you're taking about. Face facts.

May your thread die a quick death.

First off boy, this isn't really a redundant thread, it's a subject matter on why the film failed, not really a complaint, an honest observation. Read the first paragraph, you hanging strand of sh#t.

Second off, this thread wasn't about Smallville, I simply used it as an example of the subject matter at hand.

Third, you little wanker, I don't have to face any facts, because I provided reason's that say otherwise.

As I told the other wanker, I made this thread for a reason, deal with it. You don't like it, don't come back. Lets hope you die a quick death so that I don't get annoyed with you one dimensional presence ever again.

 

[retconned]

Ret strikes again

I couldn't have said it better myself.

Your damn right, Im through cutting this movie slack. I did for an entire year, Im done with that.

The time for excuses is over

 

[dpm07]

People need to genuinely and truly listen to retconned. He understands Superman. It's obvious by looking at this thread he started. Great job, btw.

How do we make the audience care?

Get rid of Jason. If you are bringing someone in, make it Kara, and wait until the 2d or 3rd film. Do it like STAS where she's a part of the Kent family, but complements it, and doesn't overshadow Clark.

Give Superman a threat that doesn't involve a certain character going for another land scheme. In that vein, stay away from the Donner franchise. It has it's own time, and now it's a different time.

I say don't make Superman so powerful that there's nothing that can challenge him. If he gets hit by something like a big missle, let him feel it. Put defined limits of power on the character. It makes the audience more empathic to the character.

Put in LexCorp Lex, and give him Mercy Greaves. Get rid of Kitty. She serves no purpose besides connecting the camp element to the Donner franchise by the way she acts. It also makes the film more cheesy, and with a superhero film, you want to win the fans over, not bring on the cheese.

Overall, I think a reboot is in order. That would be the best way to cut the ties with the Donner franchise. Let this Superman stand on its own. It's a new day, and a new era. We can go with an origin or an established Superman. The thing that's great about Bond, and it applies to Superman as well, is this: We know who he is, and we don't need an origin to tell us. Superman is considered the most popular cultural icon of the 20th century, and the is the 3rd most recognizable symbol in the world. Bond doesn't do an origin every time we get a new actor, and Superman doesn't need one either.

Make a trilogy that segues into each successive film. Clark's a reporter. Let's see some of that. I don't want to see a super intelligent Clark/Superman, but one who is knowledgeable about his job. Lex is fine for a first film, but give him a henchmen ala Metallo. Segue a second film into Brainiac, and a third one into an invasion by Darkseid and Apokolips. Each film escalates the challenge to Superman, and we see this, and the struggles. Introduce Kara in the second film, but don't have her do anything until a third when Superman needs help against Apokolips and Darkseid. That said, make the focus Darkseid and Superman in a showdown. Here's a twist, Darkseid leaves, but Clark realizes there are others who can conceivably beat him or challenge him significantly. This will really give the audience an empathy toward the character.