Man raised from dead at my church!

[Hurm...]

Oh I agree with you. I'm not one to jump to "It's GOD'S hand at work, it's a MIRACLE!!!" and assume more likely that it's something more scientific, but I've seen enough to know that it's possible to be beyond explanation.

The very first question I asked the guy who came to me (who can be a bit out there in his faith) is if someone was working on the guy and he said no. Then I saw the Librarian friend of mine said yes... which confirms my suspiscions a bit more. Thing is, neither of them are liars so there's likely a lot of word of mouth. It is a huge church after all, but they should have both been present, and Duane being on the pastorial staff would likely have been right up there... so who knows.

I just can't wait to speak to the two of them in person and figure out the exact details.

I get what you mean. There are certain people that you trust and you know personally that you can rely on when it comes to certain situations, like the one you described. I think I have a similar line of believing people's word, like you.

 

[WildcatNC]

 

[POWdER-man]

Well, it's at one of my old churches. My friend (and youth pastor) Duane texted me and told me about it this morning. Toward the end of service a person fell dead up by the alter and the pastor ran to check on him. He yelled for a doctor and a nurse came up and confirmed that he had no pulse. They called 911 while the pastor asked everyone to pray (and it's a big church) and before anyone got there to start working on him he shot up alive and well.

I just thought this was interesting enough to mention. It'll obviously mean nothing to people who don't know these people or don't believe in God but knowing Duane and the senior pastor of that church I'm excited. I don't know complete details just yet but it's pretty exciting. I might see Duane at a Super Bowl party later tonight so I'll hopefully get better details from him then.

I am assuming the nurse would have been performing CPR on the person while everyone else was praying since she is more than qualified and trained to do so. If she wasn't, than I am more seriously concerned on the fact that no one was doing any chest compressions (let alone anything) and letting this person possibly lay there and die. If she was then I would hold more stock in her help reviving him than anything else.

CPR was conducted using the ABC method (airway, breathes, chest compressions) however that changed to using the CAB method as this is more effective method especially for those who have little to no CPR training. For obvious reasons its most important to keep the heart going than anything else as most people don't do the other two steps correctly enough and are simply wasting precious time. Even if someone didn't have ANY training in CPR, at the very least do chest compressions until the paramedics arrive. However being a nurse she would be more than capable in handling the situation and would have been doing something as I would have a hard time thinking she wouldn't be.

 

[SuperFerret]

I'd imagine she'd be doing everything she can. Prayer doesn't have to take much more than thought.

 

[POWdER-man]

That's what I mean, I imagine she would have been doing everything she could but this statement seems misleading, and leaving out that important kind of information.

He yelled for a doctor and a nurse came up and confirmed that he had no pulse. They called 911 while the pastor asked everyone to pray (and it's a big church) and before anyone got there to start working on him he shot up alive and well.

 

[SuperFerret]

The story we're presented with is hearsay, and considering you have a decent working knowledge of CPCR, you should be as aware as I am that the nurse being able to "confirm that he had no pulse" suggests that she's there to begin working on him.

 

[POWdER-man]

Okay I see that in earlier in the thread that there are conflicting reports on whether someone was working on them or not. More than likely there was but I hate when people (I mean the people there at the church not you JH as I know you are just relaying the info given) leave out key information to support their claims.

I believe in god but I am not religious and although I understand the power of prayer and faith, I can't overlook a medical explanation.

 

[JewishHobbit]

I agree. That's why I was hesitant when Duane left that part out. He's not a liar and I don't think he'd leave it out to make our faith seem stronger through the miracle but it's possible he could have been away a the moment or, as he sometimes does, sits toward the back and didn't get a clear view of what was going on.

He ended up hitting another Super Bowl party I hear so I didn't see him but I'll be sure to talk to the Librarian and see what she has to say about it tomorrow at work.

And on a side note: Go Packers! (or rather... Hah! Steelers! as is my real mentality)

 

[Spider-Who?]

glad the guy is alright.

As for the "miracle v. science" debate...I don't think it matters. People will believe what works for them. The important thing is that the guy is alive and well.

That being said, God's work and scientific explanations are not mutually exclusive, and it bugs me that people think that. If you believe in God, then you also most likely believe that He has His hands in every facet of life; He has control and influence over the smallest detail - the very atoms - of life. He can work within the parameters of our measurable sciences, and he can work outside of them. In other words, it was His will that the nurse was there to help him; His will that her actions were successful. Now, I'm sure many if not most people who witnessed it went home thinking more about God and possibly believing in Him a little more. And the man walked away looking at life differently. An example of God allowing things to happen for the greater good.

Of course, you can also say that you think God doesn't exist, and the guy was just lucky. Its all about perspective.

 

[Saint]

There's always a medical explanation, it just isn't always apparent.

In this case, the explanation is vampires.

 

[JewishHobbit]

glad the guy is alright.

As for the "miracle v. science" debate...I don't think it matters. People will believe what works for them. The important thing is that the guy is alive and well.

That being said, God's work and scientific explanations are not mutually exclusive, and it bugs me that people think that. If you believe in God, then you also most likely believe that He has His hands in every facet of life; He has control and influence over the smallest detail - the very atoms - of life. He can work within the parameters of our measurable sciences, and he can work outside of them. In other words, it was His will that the nurse was there to help him; His will that her actions were successful. Now, I'm sure many if not most people who witnessed it went home thinking more about God and possibly believing in Him a little more. And the man walked away looking at life differently. An example of God allowing things to happen for the greater good.

Of course, you can also say that you think God doesn't exist, and the guy was just lucky. Its all about perspective.

Very true

 

[JewishHobbit]

I'm eager to talk to the Librarian today.

And while playing on Facebook I found out that the guy is the grandfather of a childhood friend of mine. I'm not sure if she goes to that church or not but I sent her a message to ask how he was doing if she got the chance to talk to him about it. I'd like to hear what he has to say about the situation.

 

[dodgers2213]

You can believe what you want. You're wrong, but believe whatever makes you feel better about the situation.

same to you pal

 

[JewishHobbit]

I talked to the Librarian yesterday and she said she was further toward the back and couldn't see what was going on. She said that she heard some conversation over the pastor's microphone, which she heard the 'there's no pulse' and apparently she knew the nurse who went up there but hadn't spoken to her. She also named a doctor who went up there, so that tells me that there were at least professionals looking at the man. She did say that Duane was half way up the church so he'd have a better view of what was going on, so that confuses me a bit as far as why he said no one was working on the man, unless there's a factor I'm missing.

Also, I got a quick response back from the man's granddaughter and she just mentioned that he's doing okay but that he "died twice for 3 minutes" but her message was crappily written so I don't know if he died then came back then died or, more likely, this is the second time he died and stayed under for 3 minutes. Who knows.

Next I get a chance I'll call up Duane and ask him more details but with work today and getting off later it won't be today.

 

[kane9321]

It starts

 

[JewishHobbit]

same to you pal

Hah! Because you OBVIOUSLY know exactly what happened in a church you know nothing about dealing with people you've never met about a situation you obviously weren't there for.

And for the record, all I've claimed is that I doubt it's an act (especially now knowing the family the man belongs to). Whether it was a miraculous healing or a medical one is not for me to say and I've not said it was one or the other. I just thought it'd be interesting discussion.

 

[Darthphere]

I talked to the Librarian yesterday and she said she was further toward the back and couldn't see what was going on. She said that she heard some conversation over the pastor's microphone, which she heard the 'there's no pulse' and apparently she knew the nurse who went up there but hadn't spoken to her. She also named a doctor who went up there, so that tells me that there were at least professionals looking at the man. She did say that Duane was half way up the church so he'd have a better view of what was going on, so that confuses me a bit as far as why he said no one was working on the man, unless there's a factor I'm missing.

Also, I got a quick response back from the man's granddaughter and she just mentioned that he's doing okay but that he "died twice for 3 minutes" but her message was crappily written so I don't know if he died then came back then died or, more likely, this is the second time he died and stayed under for 3 minutes. Who knows.

Next I get a chance I'll call up Duane and ask him more details but with work today and getting off later it won't be today.

I lawled?

 

[rodhulk]

There's always a medical explanation, it just isn't always apparent.

There may always be a medical explanation, but there isn't always a medical fact!

 

[SuperFerret]

What?

 

[Ghostvirus]

There may always be a medical explanation, but there isn't always a medical fact!

There may not be medical fact. But there is zero religious fact. So I usually side with medicine.

 

[Spider-Who?]

And no one should tell you to choose otherwise. But to say there are no “religious facts” is not entirely true. Sure, spirituality, by its nature isn’t something that can be measured and quantified in a science lab. But science’s inability to do so is not evidence for any lack of truth or existence. Personally, I think that the thousands of years (and trillions of people) who believe in the spiritual side of life has some merits. And speaking historically when it comes to “religious facts”…well, that all depends on the religion in question. If history plays a large part in a religion, then archeology and other sciences can present evidence to prove (or disprove) events depicted and honored in said religions. There is more evidence to suggest that historical accounts in the bible are true (or “fact”) then there is evidence that suggests they are false. There are countless books and studies on the matter to look through, and all are intriguing, regardless of one’s faith or lack thereof.

That being said, let’s get back on topic. There is a religion thread to discuss who is “right” and who is “wrong”.

 

[cryptic name]

Well, it's at one of my old churches. My friend (and youth pastor) Duane texted me and told me about it this morning. Toward the end of service a person fell dead up by the alter and the pastor ran to check on him. He yelled for a doctor and a nurse came up and confirmed that he had no pulse. They called 911 while the pastor asked everyone to pray (and it's a big church) and before anyone got there to start working on him he shot up alive and well.

I just thought this was interesting enough to mention. It'll obviously mean nothing to people who don't know these people or don't believe in God but knowing Duane and the senior pastor of that church I'm excited. I don't know complete details just yet but it's pretty exciting. I might see Duane at a Super Bowl party later tonight so I'll hopefully get better details from him then.

wouldn't that be blasphemous and stuff?

 

[bunk]

There may always be a medical explanation, but there isn't always a medical fact!

It wouldn't be a medical explanation if it didn't involve facts.

 

[BillPardy]

Most shocking thing to me is that Jewish Hobbit isn't... jewish.

 

[random_havoc]

There may not be medical fact. But there is zero religious fact. So I usually side with medicine.

holy narrow minded batman!