Mark Millar: Booms and Busts

[Specter313]

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=82502

Very intriguing read.

 

[iloveclones]

I liked how none of the responses seemed to have even read the article, and completely missed or misunderstood what he was saying.

 

[Kool-Aid]

That Millar, such a pessimist....tsk

 

[gildea]

i really hope cassady finishes planetary first...

 

[Lactophiliac]

The next step for the comic book industry will probably see the big 2 (or at least Marvel) abandoning publishing comics monthly. Instead everything will be released as Graphic Novels whenever it gets done. With more and more comic writers and artist working jobs in Hollywood or writing novels and doing comics as side work, and more and more comics being published late or going to bi-monthly (and is some cases STILL being published late) and Marvel not seemingly caring to do anything to stop the trend, this seems to be where they are going to end up.

 

[Caliber]

Damn, it makes sad since I want to write comics and make movies.

 

[Dread]

A very interesting and thought out read. Who thought that the same guy who writes high-school-level power-fantasies like WANTED actually had a keen, rational mind? I just thought he ran on alcohol, porno, and flesh cloned from half the cast of MONTY PYTHON'S FLYING CIRCUS spliced with about every 80's action movie cliche imaginable.

The guy obviously has a brain and it's a shame we don't get to see that a lot in most of his more recent work sans ULTIMATE FANTASTIC FOUR, where he's either in "action movie mode" or "knee-jerk extremist Liberal" mode.

It's hard to believe what he describes won't happen, because as he's said, it's happening now and Hollywood can no longer ignore the talents of people in the comic book industry now that Marvel and DC movies, TV series and DTV's are selling like hotcakes. However, one thing he doesn't take into account is how fickle Hollywood is. Westerns used to be all the rage, too. But they aren't nearly as big now as they were in the 60's-80's. Same with spy thrillers, which popped up by the dozens during the Cold War years and now aren't as spiffy. It would be foolish to believe that comic book movies will always be as lucrative as they have been since the turn of the century and that Hollywood won't eventually tire of them if they can't pull in a half-billion domestic as easily. The underperformance of SUPERMAN RETURNS surely got someone buzzing. The X-MEN franchise has just about peaked and SPIDER-MAN can't last forever. If the comic market can have a boom and bust, why not Hollywood? Their box office sales have been slipping for quite a while.

But despite that, a very well thought out theory about a possible future for the industry from a guy most of us remember for having Ultimate Hulk became a cannibalizing wanna-be rapist. Who knew the guy could get serious?

 

[gildea]

It's hard to believe what he describes won't happen, because as he's said, it's happening now and Hollywood can no longer ignore the talents of people in the comic book industry now that Marvel and DC movies, TV series and DTV's are selling like hotcakes. However, one thing he doesn't take into account is how fickle Hollywood is. Westerns used to be all the rage, too. But they aren't nearly as big now as they were in the 60's-80's. Same with spy thrillers, which popped up by the dozens during the Cold War years and now aren't as spiffy. It would be foolish to believe that comic book movies will always be as lucrative as they have been since the turn of the century and that Hollywood won't eventually tire of them if they can't pull in a half-billion domestic as easily. The underperformance of SUPERMAN RETURNS surely got someone buzzing. The X-MEN franchise has just about peaked and SPIDER-MAN can't last forever. If the comic market can have a boom and bust, why not Hollywood? Their box office sales have been slipping for quite a while.

His main point isn't actually about comic movies though. Its simply about hollywood nicking the talent pool of comics to work on their own not comic related movies which will leave us with artists that aren't quite ready yet. Specifically he's more worried about comics losing the best artists as they can't do both like a writer can.
eg brian hitch is great at cinematic fights but their is no reason that doesn't extend beyond superheroes and into war and action movies.


That said I do think millar is a bit too pessimistic about it.

 

[Dread]

His main point isn't actually about comic movies though. Its simply about hollywood nicking the talent pool of comics to work on their own not comic related movies which will leave us with artists that aren't quite ready yet. Specifically he's more worried about comics losing the best artists as they can't do both like a writer can.
eg brian hitch is great at cinematic fights but their is no reason that doesn't extend beyond superheroes and into war and action movies.


That said I do think millar is a bit too pessimistic about it.

Pessimism is usually more realistic than optimism. But that's just me being Mr. Happy again.

"Plan for the worst, and you'll never be disappointed."

Best to hear mention of it now. I don't think Millar is playing Chicken Little here, I think he has a decent stance on what to watch out for.

Another thing he didn't mention; writers who attempt to juggle Hollywood and comics. We see it happening now, books being late because writers' day job is with movies or TV and comics are "part time hobby". Look at the year-long hype-fest that was "Brian Singer's non-story on Ultimate X-Men". Yes, they screamed from the heavens how cool it was going to be for almost a year and now have quietly pretended we forgot now that it seems never to be. Marvel usually severely underestimates scheduling realities, so I could easily see them tossing work towards folks who are plenty busy with movies and TV regardless. I mean look at Kevin Smith.

 

[iloveclones]

Honestly, I didn't get the pessimistic tone that most of you seem to be taking out of it. Because, even though Hollywood might be drawing off the cream of the crop, there's always someone who wants to break in the biz. I mean, seriously, are many people around here going to be upset if Brian Bendis leaves for the bright lights of Hollywood, making room at the top for people like Dan Slott. And behind Dan Slott is some guy just waiting to get his break.

My concern with Hollywood is more that Marvel becomes used to the revenue that they get from them, and the merchandising. My only hope is that they do realize that it's cyclical and that money may not be there 5-10 years from now. Marvel having it's own production company may alter that calculation a little, but in that case, I hope that they don't over-extend themselves.

 

[Themanofbat]

Honestly, I didn't get the pessimistic tone that most of you seem to be taking out of it. Because, even though Hollywood might be drawing off the cream of the crop, there's always someone who wants to break in the biz. I mean, seriously, are many people around here going to be upset if Brian Bendis leaves for the bright lights of Hollywood, making room at the top for people like Dan Slott. And behind Dan Slott is some guy just waiting to get his break.

Or a Rob Liefeld, or many of the so-called 90's wonders that eventually showed themselves to be unoriginal crappy creators...

 

[iloveclones]

But Liefeld et al came about and thrived as a result of the rapid expansion of comics. Sort of like when they add a bunch of teams to a league, lots of crappy hockey/baseball/football being played. And a lot of money being made. And in RL's defense, a lot of people seemed to buy his stuff (myself included.)

No doubt that some of the chaff will come along with the wheat. But it's up to discerning collectors to separate them. (If Slott is any indication, sometimes we're not up to the job.) My own personal theory is because people tend to be more focused on what they shouldn't buy, as opposed to things they should (all being subjective of course)

 

[hippy fascist]

If marvel wants continued movie revenue they need to start using more cinematic comic books as basis.

For example

Captain america movie is in the works, how will be possible to make cap live action not look like a massive gay icon.

Books that would work at the moment

Supreme power (The max series not the crap that followed)
Moon knight
Punisher Max
Agents of atlas
A decent daredevil film (possibly based on smith's run)
Powers(one already in the works just no news so far)
Runaways (this could be so cool if done right)

 

[CantThinkOfAName]

Marvel wouldnt get any money on a Powers movie

 

[CantThinkOfAName]

Pessimism is usually more realistic than optimism. But that's just me being Mr. Happy again.

I didnt know conservatives were happy

 

[iloveclones]

If marvel wants continued movie revenue they need to start using more cinematic comic books as basis.

For example

Captain america movie is in the works, how will be possible to make cap live action not look like a massive gay icon.

Books that would work at the moment

Supreme power (The max series not the crap that followed)
Moon knight
Punisher Max
Agents of atlas
A decent daredevil film (possibly based on smith's run)
Powers(one already in the works just no news so far)
Runaways (this could be so cool if done right)

Of all those, I think Runaways could be done, and Daredevil. But I didn't think that much of Smith's run. I would use Bendis' "outing" as the basis of a movie. I think that could be more interesting.

I think Cap could be done right if it were done more as a period WWII movie, with the ending being him blowing up and being discovered in the ice. I have no idea how to make the costume look right, but they've done it with other characters, why not Cap? (And besides, maybe he could wake up in the 70's and join the Village People.)

 

[Wolverazio]

Of all those, I think Runaways could be done, and Daredevil. But I didn't think that much of Smith's run. I would use Bendis' "outing" as the basis of a movie. I think that could be more interesting.

I think Cap could be done right if it were done more as a period WWII movie, with the ending being him blowing up and being discovered in the ice. I have no idea how to make the costume look right, but they've done it with other characters, why not Cap? (And besides, maybe he could wake up in the 70's and join the Village People.)

Giving him something close to the Ultimates look would make him workable. Make it recognizable (as many people in the US know the name Captain America/have seen the costume once or twice) while also making him look like a soldier.

And I don't find it pessimistic at all. After all, how does he end it? "If we follow the graph, 2013 may look bad but 2025 is going to be bigger than ever."

I find it disheartening how many people view dealing with reality as pessimism...

And while it saddens me a bit as a comic fan...it makes me a bit happy as someone who would want to try and break into the biz at some point. After all, I know I can write things at least as "good" as New Avengers...

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Pessimism is usually more realistic than optimism. But that's just me being Mr. Happy again.

"Plan for the worst, and you'll never be disappointed."

Best to hear mention of it now. I don't think Millar is playing Chicken Little here, I think he has a decent stance on what to watch out for.

Another thing he didn't mention; writers who attempt to juggle Hollywood and comics. We see it happening now, books being late because writers' day job is with movies or TV and comics are "part time hobby". Look at the year-long hype-fest that was "Brian Singer's non-story on Ultimate X-Men". Yes, they screamed from the heavens how cool it was going to be for almost a year and now have quietly pretended we forgot now that it seems never to be. Marvel usually severely underestimates scheduling realities, so I could easily see them tossing work towards folks who are plenty busy with movies and TV regardless. I mean look at Kevin Smith.

Pessimism is similar to realism, but not exactly. Pessimists ALWAYS assume the worst, and tend to be fairly heavy in conspiracies.


"That guy donated one hundred dollars."

"Probably only to get some sex."

Realists tend to rely on statistics more or less. There's a job for this. I used to do it for kicks, being an actuarian. But then again, I work heavily in physics, so my sense of humor isn't all that normal.

 

[Darthphere]

"That guy donated one hundred dollars."

"Probably only to get some sex."

In my case, that was true.

 

[gildea]

...man i paid $250

 

[Xofenroht]

All his interview does is give me hope that in the future when I'm out of college and looking for work as a comics writer they'll be looking for people with things to offer. It gives me some sense of comradery too. My greatest dream about writing comics is to have the same sense of community that the other writers seem to have. Look how much like a band the creative team on "52" looks or how Neil Gaiman was Mark Buckingham's best man at his wedding.

 

[Dread]

I find it disheartening how many people view dealing with reality as pessimism...

And while it saddens me a bit as a comic fan...it makes me a bit happy as someone who would want to try and break into the biz at some point. After all, I know I can write things at least as "good" as New Avengers...

Most people confuse pessimism with realism and so I usually connect the pair in my mind.

It can allow for new oppurtunities for "new creators", but honestly Marvel doesn't usually hire new writers anymore unless they are already fairly successful in novels, TV/movie writing, or comics themselves. Something you really need to invest a lot of time, money, and energy on. I can choose between dropping out of school and doing it or going into a profession, and choose the latter. I mean, in theory one could try to persue comics "as an art on the side", but c'mon. That never happens. No one with a day job gets into comics (at least a day job that isn't menial labor). No one says, "Oh, I worked full time as an accountant (or whatever) and did some indies for 5 years as a spare hobby and then suddenly I got into DC". That doesn't happen.

I learned that part of growing up is to give up on your dreams and revision a life that is more attainable and still is worthwhile and passionate for you. We all do that to some extent, otherwise everyone here would be a ballerina, a cowboy, or an astronaut.

 

[Specter313]

Most people confuse pessimism with realism and so I usually connect the pair in my mind.

It can allow for new oppurtunities for "new creators", but honestly Marvel doesn't usually hire new writers anymore unless they are already fairly successful in novels, TV/movie writing, or comics themselves. Something you really need to invest a lot of time, money, and energy on. I can choose between dropping out of school and doing it or going into a profession, and choose the latter. I mean, in theory one could try to persue comics "as an art on the side", but c'mon. That never happens. No one with a day job gets into comics (at least a day job that isn't menial labor). No one says, "Oh, I worked full time as an accountant (or whatever) and did some indies for 5 years as a spare hobby and then suddenly I got into DC". That doesn't happen.

I think that to try and achieve that, don't automatically try and go for one of the big guys like Marvel, but rather one of the smaller publishers, where you can probably be a lot free-er with you ideas and build up a reputation so that Marvel will want to hire you in the future.

 

[Dread]

I think that to try and achieve that, don't automatically try and go for one of the big guys like Marvel, but rather one of the smaller publishers, where you can probably be a lot free-er with you ideas and build up a reputation so that Marvel will want to hire you in the future.

Nice signature, not sure I noticed it before. RUNAWAYS is indeed worth pitching

Oh, I know, I'm saying you need to start in the trenches with self-published material for most creators. I'm just saying one has to invest a lot of time into that which is very hard if that itself is not your 9 to 5 "day job" after graduating college. Usually jobs that require a BA, Masters or Doctorate take a lot of time. I'm majoring in social work and I know that's going to eat up much time. You really can't be a weekend indie.

 

[CantThinkOfAName]

...man i paid $250

"donated". Its a nice loophole that still works in New Mexico