Mark Millar's Many Thoughts On Superman

[The Sage]

How can the Kents show him how to be a supergod if they've never experienced what he has? And isn't it much more stronger for the character of Superman to be able to make his own decisions instead of falling back on his parents for advice?

 

[Crook]

I'd say it grounds him by having the sensibility to still welcome guidance from his adoptive parents. I find it very interesting that what is essentially a god could be so down-to-earth, no pun intended.

It's an appeal for the character.

 

[The Guard]

How can the Kents show him how to be a supergod if they've never experienced what he has?

Exactly. It's not an easy situation, but it is one that offers some dramatic potential.

Superman's still going to make his own decisions, we all do most of the time. But the fact that this powerful being still asks his parents and friends for their advice...there's appeal there.

 

[The Sage]

Then let him just ask his friends...

Nah, j/k. I see what you're trying to say.

 

[Crook]

Like who? Lana? There are very few people that could give Superman advice. In either identity.

EDIT: F'n edits...

 

[the GRIN Reaper]

I seriously hope in the re-boot that they keep Pa Kent alive. Reading various Superman comics, I thought the dynamic of Pa Kent's teaching v.s. Clark's alien heritage was one of the strongest character dilemmas. Let's not make him another generic superhero story of having his earth parents die as well.

BTW, what is the proposed characterization of Lex Luthor by Millar? It's not world's dumbest smart guy / real estate investor the way Donner and Singer potrayed him, right?

 

[The Sage]

There isn't one yet. But based on his Red Son, his Lex Luthor would be one of the best ever seen. Businessman, scientist, inventor, genius, egoist all rolled into one.

 

[Cain]

I was born in '83 so you know in terms of comics post-crisis was my introduction. So it's not that I don't like the Kent's being around. However I truly don't see the importance of them being alive once he's an adult that moves to metropolis. From a storytelling perspective it doesn't make any real sense cause they've already taught him all their morals and ideals when he was growing up. Honestly what is there really left to learn? especially for someone with super intellect. Superman being all powerful but without a family is awesome cause the fact that he has everything but yet nothing is very appealing in itself.

Superman being sad that the two people he loved most are not around anymore is relateable in itself. It shows his humane aspect because he could still suffer the pain of losing a loved one despite being seemingly invincible. He's not invulnerable to being emotionally hurt thanks to what the Kent's taught him he knows how to love and value others. That reaction highlights that had he landed in some criminals' doorstep instead that probably wouldn't be the case.

Superman going through the ordeal of losing the Kent's but still getting it together is inspiring in itself because it's not easy to get over losing the only parents you knew and moving on. Plus he manages to honor them by not only keeping Clark Kent who embodies what they represent to him alive and an important part of his life but also going out there and using his powers in a way they'd be proud of.

I think that is just as appealing and strong as keeping them alive. And it doesn't manage to take the risk of potentially bogging the film down with more supporting characters than neccessary when the metropolis cast is strong enough to have around him as it is. It gives Superman an emotional hook and further solidifies his selflessness.

 

[Cain]

BTW: Superman TTA is back http://www.superman.nu/

*bookmarks link* t:

 

[Superman4ever]

Ugh, repost of this! Miller is a Superman idiot and for those who want Miller because you want a Superman movie you're going to be very disappointed!

No to Miller!

This is from Millarworld itself. (Don't have the link now). Mark Millar's views on Supermaan and how would *FIX* him....

On his connection to Batman: "[Superman and Batman are] both orphans. They absolutely understand each other and know that there's nobody else they can count on as much as they other. PS I know Superman isn't an orphan in this dreadful period he's been under seige (from 1986 until Hitchy and I fix him again), but the true understanding of the character is, like Bambi, he loses his Mum and Dad again. All the iconic heroes do whether it's Superman, Bambi or Batman."

On why Bryan Hitch is his ideal Superman collaborator: "Hitchy's even worse than me. Although he looks much older and has trouble sleeping through the night without a piss, Hitchy is only three weeks younger than me. Thus, we grew up on the same Cary Bates Superman comics aged 6-14. Exactly the same comics. We were also 8 years old when we saw Superman and Hitch, like me, can repeat the entire movie line for line. You should hear our daily phone chats. They're a hymn to Superman. Fixing this mess has been our destiny. It'll happen. Not for a while, but it'll happen."

On Clark Kent: "Clark is a pair of glasses. Superman doesn't need glasses. He puts on the glasses for no practical reason; just to dress up and pretend to be this mid-westwern guy he's not as a means of rubbing shoulders with the people on this planet. Superman would have thought he was human until puberty. Until maybe 12. The easiest way to understand it is to think of Jesus in the temple and the moment where his mother has to tell him the truth. He always knew he was different and alone. This is when it was all explained to him. He could still love his parents, but Clark is him trying to understand what humans are all about. As Elliot Maggin puts it, Clark Kent is a living, breathing work of art."

On Lois Lane: "Superman doesn't love Lois. Clark loves Lois and Superman tries HARD to love Lois, but he can't because she's the wrong species. But he tries. Again, Maggin sums it up beautifully. It doesn't have to be complicated... Clark loves Lois, Lois loves Superman, Superman loves Clark [...] Perfect. This is also one of the reasons Superman shouldn't be married to Lois. It's just stupid. It makes no sense and destroys the whole dynamic. Superman is God, Jor-El is the Holy Spirit and Clark Kent is Jesus. The Kents are Mary and Joseph and Lois is Mary Magdelene. She's the NYC girl who's ____ed her way around the city and found nobody who measures up. She's just had it with men and is focusing on her career... then Superman shows up. This is why Margot Kidder was perfect for the role and why Lois should be played by someone around 30 even if Supes is being played by a 25 year old. You'll see what I mean when we fix it."

On the current version of the character: "[Kingdom Come] is close to perfect. Waid gets it. None of the other American writers do, though Loeb comes close. His only weakness is getting caught up in the whole farmboy thing. The farm is where he grew up and knew he was NOTHING LIKE THESE PEOPLE. He affects it for the Clark persona, but that's it. He's as Kryptonian as Jesus is divine. Did Jesus shag Mary Mag? I don't think so. Superman should never shag Lois. It's insane and what happens when artists start touching tyoewriters. Jimmy is the reader-identification figure and the comedy relief. PS I'm saving everything else for the launch. No other ideas from me here, I'm afraid, in case some ____ nicks em."

On mixing metaphors: "No brimstone for Superman. He's interesting enough without it. He sees Earth the way immigrants saw America 100 years ago. He sees a chance for hope and a new life after losing his homeland as a kid. He loves people because he recognizes their great potential and, like Krypton, he wants to encourage them towards the Utopia his father sent him from. Forget Byrne. Read the Bible."

On the previous pitch Millar had made with Grant Morrison, Mark Waid and Tom Peyer: "The pitch we did was very late 90s and all the things I WOULDN'T do if Superman was being revamped now. It was nice, but it was the whole retro 60s thing that Grant's into as opposed to what I'd want to do myself. This thing was pretty good, but would be absolutely wrong for now. It still had Superman married to Lois and all that ____. There was another draft Mark Waid added with Earth getting a mind-wipe to forget that stuff and it had some nice touches, but I'd just start from scratch."

On how close Superman is to humanity: "Humans were apes less than 50 million years ago. Kryptonians are what we'd be like in 20 billion years. I have this all worked out as part of the proposal. In the last two years, I've filled two entire ring-binders with the plan. There's some AMAZING stuff in here. Hitch has also been doing little design doodles for the last five years. It's fate that we met."


This was Millar in an interview from 2004. I found this on newsarama which was originally from MILLARWORLD. It's a wizard interview.

 

[Super Kal]

I actually like some of what he said... especially about him showing Superman seeing earth as the way immigrants saw America 100 years ago... lots of good ideas in that report

 

[Crook]

I like a lot of it. Screw ya'll.

 

[Super Kal]

I'm with ya crook... except the screw part

 

[The Sage]

I like a lot of it. Screw ya'll.

 

[Cain]

I like a lot of it. Screw ya'll.

Absolutely sir I like a lot of it too.

Honestly I don't want to be condescending or elitist but if you honestly look at that and think Millar doesn't get it then you don't get it. Your Superman knowledge more than likely consists only of Byrne comics and everything that they influenced as well as the 90's animated series and the movies.

I like those things too but that's not the only way to tell Superman's story and though I do like them I'm admitedly a pre-crisis dude in terms of preference just like Millar. There are lots of fantastic material from the golden and silver age through bronze age that could be used as an influence for a new film read them and understand them before you start saying the guy doesn't get Supes. Outside of the whole "Superman doesn't want to shag Lois" angle everything there is pretty much dead on in terms of the basics.

 

[TruerToTheCore]

I seriously hope in the re-boot that they keep Pa Kent alive. Reading various Superman comics, I thought the dynamic of Pa Kent's teaching v.s. Clark's alien heritage was one of the strongest character dilemmas. Let's not make him another generic superhero story of having his earth parents die as well.

Well, but Superman lost his parents (as you can see in his first short origin), and all the other superheroes came later. Siegel lost his father, so it may come from this.

 

[Steelsheen]

Millar wants to make Ultimate Superman, that's all this is. He can't write characters that are just noble and decent with a little complexity....every single character he's written, protagonist or not, is an a-hole. They do ****ty things. That's how he writes.

sorry Terry, but i have to disagree with you. of the Superman work that i've read of Miller, none of them are A-holes unless the character was designed to be.

What can the Kents give him advice for? How how would they know how to handle the problems that he goes through?

Losing his parents wouldn't motivate him to become Superman. And tragedy already exists in his formation from Krypton's destruction.

bruce has alfred for advice. peter the aunt. superman should have hes parents.

yeah, DB just about nailed it.

Sage, the Kents arent always about 'your part is done therefore you're no longer needed'. parents/ guardians are there for moral support even if they arent able to give any kind of advice that the seeker can use. their very presence alone gives comfort to the son/ daughter who feels troubled. you may say that that is what Lois and his friends are for, but its a different feeling when it comes to the people that raised them.

This is from Millarworld itself. (Don't have the link now). Mark Millar's views on Supermaan and how would *FIX* him....

On his connection to Batman: "[Superman and Batman are] both orphans. They absolutely understand each other and know that there's nobody else they can count on as much as they other. PS I know Superman isn't an orphan in this dreadful period he's been under seige (from 1986 until Hitchy and I fix him again), but the true understanding of the character is, like Bambi, he loses his Mum and Dad again. All the iconic heroes do whether it's Superman, Bambi or Batman."

On why Bryan Hitch is his ideal Superman collaborator: "Hitchy's even worse than me. Although he looks much older and has trouble sleeping through the night without a piss, Hitchy is only three weeks younger than me. Thus, we grew up on the same Cary Bates Superman comics aged 6-14. Exactly the same comics. We were also 8 years old when we saw Superman and Hitch, like me, can repeat the entire movie line for line. You should hear our daily phone chats. They're a hymn to Superman. Fixing this mess has been our destiny. It'll happen. Not for a while, but it'll happen."

On Clark Kent: "Clark is a pair of glasses. Superman doesn't need glasses. He puts on the glasses for no practical reason; just to dress up and pretend to be this mid-westwern guy he's not as a means of rubbing shoulders with the people on this planet. Superman would have thought he was human until puberty. Until maybe 12. The easiest way to understand it is to think of Jesus in the temple and the moment where his mother has to tell him the truth. He always knew he was different and alone. This is when it was all explained to him. He could still love his parents, but Clark is him trying to understand what humans are all about. As Elliot Maggin puts it, Clark Kent is a living, breathing work of art."

On Lois Lane: "Superman doesn't love Lois. Clark loves Lois and Superman tries HARD to love Lois, but he can't because she's the wrong species. But he tries. Again, Maggin sums it up beautifully. It doesn't have to be complicated... Clark loves Lois, Lois loves Superman, Superman loves Clark [...] Perfect. This is also one of the reasons Superman shouldn't be married to Lois. It's just stupid. It makes no sense and destroys the whole dynamic. Superman is God, Jor-El is the Holy Spirit and Clark Kent is Jesus. The Kents are Mary and Joseph and Lois is Mary Magdelene. She's the NYC girl who's ____ed her way around the city and found nobody who measures up. She's just had it with men and is focusing on her career... then Superman shows up. This is why Margot Kidder was perfect for the role and why Lois should be played by someone around 30 even if Supes is being played by a 25 year old. You'll see what I mean when we fix it."

On the current version of the character: "[Kingdom Come] is close to perfect. Waid gets it. None of the other American writers do, though Loeb comes close. His only weakness is getting caught up in the whole farmboy thing. The farm is where he grew up and knew he was NOTHING LIKE THESE PEOPLE. He affects it for the Clark persona, but that's it. He's as Kryptonian as Jesus is divine. Did Jesus shag Mary Mag? I don't think so. Superman should never shag Lois. It's insane and what happens when artists start touching tyoewriters. Jimmy is the reader-identification figure and the comedy relief. PS I'm saving everything else for the launch. No other ideas from me here, I'm afraid, in case some ____ nicks em."

On mixing metaphors: "No brimstone for Superman. He's interesting enough without it. He sees Earth the way immigrants saw America 100 years ago. He sees a chance for hope and a new life after losing his homeland as a kid. He loves people because he recognizes their great potential and, like Krypton, he wants to encourage them towards the Utopia his father sent him from. Forget Byrne. Read the Bible."

On the previous pitch Millar had made with Grant Morrison, Mark Waid and Tom Peyer: "The pitch we did was very late 90s and all the things I WOULDN'T do if Superman was being revamped now. It was nice, but it was the whole retro 60s thing that Grant's into as opposed to what I'd want to do myself. This thing was pretty good, but would be absolutely wrong for now. It still had Superman married to Lois and all that ____. There was another draft Mark Waid added with Earth getting a mind-wipe to forget that stuff and it had some nice touches, but I'd just start from scratch."

On how close Superman is to humanity: "Humans were apes less than 50 million years ago. Kryptonians are what we'd be like in 20 billion years. I have this all worked out as part of the proposal. In the last two years, I've filled two entire ring-binders with the plan. There's some AMAZING stuff in here. Hitch has also been doing little design doodles for the last five years. It's fate that we met."


This was Millar in an interview from 2004. I found this on newsarama which was originally from MILLARWORLD. It's a wizard interview.

i actually agree with some of his statements, not everything of course, and again i think there are a several things he saying there that are obviously tongue in cheek. here's my general rule: writers/ artists/ actors/ directors may say what they say in interviews, but look at their work, that is the best gauge of what they know and what they are capable of.

 

[Cain]

sorry Terry, but i have to disagree with you. of the Superman work that i've read of Miller, none of them are A-holes unless the character was designed to be.

Absolutely I keep telling people to just read all his work on the Superman Adventures series and Red Son and they'd see the man does love Superman. That is if they can't judge that based on his comments on the character alone. His work speaks for itself he is a genuine fan cause he's obviously very passionate about Superman and his work on the comics with the character say so.

You could tell he writes comics for a living primarily cause Superman is so important to him. I don't know about anybody else but that's the type of person needed to be on staff for a reboot so he definitely got my support. You need a writer who cares for the character someone who would bring heart to it. People yap about Goyer all the time why can't they give Millar the same chance? I mean think for a minute what if they get Kurtzman & Orci or Akiva Goldsman or something? jesus that ****'d be terrible.

Sage, the Kents arent always about 'your part is done therefore you're no longer needed'. parents/ guardians are there for moral support even if they arent able to give any kind of advice that the seeker can use. their very presence alone gives comfort to the son/ daughter who feels troubled. you may say that that is what Lois and his friends are for, but its a different feeling when it comes to the people that raised them.

I know this was in response to Sage but I have to intervene for a sec with this

Superman going through the ordeal of losing the Kent's but still getting it together is inspiring in itself because it's not easy to get over losing the only parents you knew and moving on. Plus he manages to honor them by not only keeping Clark Kent who embodies what they represent to him alive and an important part of his life but also going out there and using his powers in a way they'd be proud of.

It's that simple there is no need to overthink it because that's what makes Supes so damn great in the eyes of millions of fans. The truth is Superman is not Batman he's not Spider-Man he's not a human being. He creates lifesize robots with superior intellect. He's a damn genius beyond human capacity. Everything the Kent's taught him he processed he spent his entire childhood and teen years with them.

You don't have to keep reminding him that's what Clark Kent represents. He's Supes' link to humanity and he loves that very much. It was the Kent's gift to him they were instrumental in the persona's reation. Clark is a byproduct of the Kent's upbringing & since they helped him come up with it it means the world to him. Every single ideal and principle they instilled on him Clark is the vessel for that.

It's like if you write books for a living & there is one novel you value and cherish the most it is the one you're most proud of. If you're a producer that song that was very personal to you is one of the greatest achievements in your eyes and your favorite. That's Clark Kent to Superman it's what he'd like to be but what he cannot be because he's superhuman.

Clark is all about the Kent's influence on him and a reminder of how good human beings could really be. He uses that identity to not only ground and humble himself but teach the world that too. It stems from his love for humanity it's not a mockery like what Quentin Tarantino thinks.

So he is the important one he is neccessary the Kent's though are dispensable. For the record I like them alive to but seriously you got Lois & Clark, the cartoon from the 90's and Smallville to enjoy them on a more consistent level. Not only that Ma is still alive in the Donnerverse movies. We need something fresh now. A new Superman film needs to present Superman to the world cause they've forgotten how cool he was.

 

[[A]]

I like a lot of it. Screw ya'll.

I like it too. And I agree with you...even the screw part t:

 

[mojo-x]

A new Superman film needs to present Superman to the world cause they've forgotten how cool he was.

What’s cooler then being a emo like stalker and a deadbeat dad?

 

[The Sage]

yeah, DB just about nailed it.

Sage, the Kents arent always about 'your part is done therefore you're no longer needed'. parents/ guardians are there for moral support even if they arent able to give any kind of advice that the seeker can use. their very presence alone gives comfort to the son/ daughter who feels troubled. you may say that that is what Lois and his friends are for, but its a different feeling when it comes to the people that raised them.
[/FONT]

I know this was in response to Sage but I have to intervene for a sec with this

It's that simple there is no need to overthink it because that's what makes Supes so damn great in the eyes of millions of fans. The truth is Superman is not Batman he's not Spider-Man he's not a human being. He creates lifesize robots with superior intellect. He's a damn genius beyond human capacity. Everything the Kent's taught him he processed he spent his entire childhood and teen years with them.

You don't have to keep reminding him that's what Clark Kent represents. He's Supes' link to humanity and he loves that very much. It was the Kent's gift to him they were instrumental in the persona's reation. Clark is a byproduct of the Kent's upbringing & since they helped him come up with it it means the world to him. Every single ideal and principle they instilled on him Clark is the vessel for that.

It's like if you write books for a living & there is one novel you value and cherish the most it is the one you're most proud of. If you're a producer that song that was very personal to you is one of the greatest achievements in your eyes and your favorite. That's Clark Kent to Superman it's what he'd like to be but what he cannot be because he's superhuman.

Clark is all about the Kent's influence on him and a reminder of how good human beings could really be. He uses that identity to not only ground and humble himself but teach the world that too. It stems from his love for humanity it's not a mockery like what Quentin Tarantino thinks.

So he is the important one he is neccessary the Kent's though are dispensable. For the record I like them alive to but seriously you got Lois & Clark, the cartoon from the 90's and Smallville to enjoy them on a more consistent level. Not only that Ma is still alive in the Donnerverse movies. We need something fresh now. A new Superman film needs to present Superman to the world cause they've forgotten how cool he was.

Well that was easy. t:

 

[the GRIN Reaper]

Well, but Superman lost his parents (as you can see in his first short origin), and all the other superheroes came later. Siegel lost his father, so it may come from this.

Yeah, but he has no connections to them apart from his genetic heritage. He doesn't know them at all. He was raised by a normal family structure. So it's completely different. Him losing his genetic parents has no effect on him. He doesn't find out till he's 12. It's not like he lost a real set of parents that he had the normal rapport a son has with his mother and father. The Kent family is his real family.

It's not the same as Bruce Wayne who knew and loved his parents for 8 years before seeing them die before his eyes.

 

[Crook]

Still, the notion that he's lost his entire family and race is enough of a connection. I mean, if one day you found out you had a long-lost brother or something, would you not seek their companionship despite not knowing them? It's natural to gravitate towards your blood.

 

[The Sage]

Yeah, but he has no connections to them apart from his genetic heritage. He doesn't know them at all. He was raised by a normal family structure. So it's completely different. Him losing his genetic parents has no effect on him. He doesn't find out till he's 12. It's not like he lost a real set of parents that he had the normal rapport a son has with his mother and father. The Kent family is his real family.

It's not the same as Bruce Wayne who knew and loved his parents for 8 years before seeing them die before his eyes.

Both the Kents and Jor-El and Lara are important to him. The Kents, because they raised and taught him morals which act as his compass. Jor-El and Lara--really the whole civilization of Krypton--will always have a connection to him because they are his people. In fact, discovering his heritage plays a role in him becoming Superman. He sees Krypton as an example of a civilization that achieves the best out of its potential. And if one civilization can do it, then another can.

That's why he does what he does. Superman loves the world so much that he strives for it to be a better place.

 

[the GRIN Reaper]

Still, the notion that he's lost his entire family and race is enough of a connection.

I'm not saying discount it. That's what makes the grief for him that he ultimately feels so alienated.

But what I'm arguing is to keep the Kent family around. They are his true guidance. They relate to the human side to him. They are the ones who made him the hero he is ... they instilled the values and morals in Clark Kent. The Kent family is more important back bone for the character of Clark Kent than Marlon Brando, err Jor-El sent youtube videos to the fortress of solitude.

I mean, if one day you found out you had a long-lost brother or something, would you not seek their companionship despite not knowing them? It's natural to gravitate towards your blood.

I'm not diagreeing. But it's like kids who never met their biological father, yet eventually come to the realization that their father who doesn't connect to them by blood neccessarily, are ultimately their true parent. Even though they didn't give birth to them physically.

I'm not arguing any of this, man Crook ... I'm saying it is important for Superman's real parents "the Kents" to play an important part in the story. It makes the structure of this superhero different than most who tragically lost all parental units. The Kents play a very important part in Clark's life. Ultimately more important than the man who sent him on a rocket ship did.