Mark Millar's Many Thoughts On Superman

[the GRIN Reaper]

Both the Kents and Jor-El and Lara are important to him. The Kents, because they raised and taught him morals which act as his compass. Jor-El and Lara--really the whole civilization of Krypton--will always have a connection to him because they are his people. In fact, discovering his heritage plays a role in him becoming Superman. He sees Krypton as an example of a civilization that achieves the best out of its potential. And if one civilization can do it, then another can.

That's why he does what he does. Superman loves the world so much that he strives for it to be a better place.

Thanks for the refresher, J ...

 

[Cain]

Yeah, but he has no connections to them apart from his genetic heritage. He doesn't know them at all. He was raised by a normal family structure. So it's completely different. Him losing his genetic parents has no effect on him. He doesn't find out till he's 12. It's not like he lost a real set of parents that he had the normal rapport a son has with his mother and father. The Kent family is his real family.

It's not the same as Bruce Wayne who knew and loved his parents for 8 years before seeing them die before his eyes.

I could be mistaken but I think TruerToTheCore was referring to the Kent's who are both dead pre-crisis which is the home to many of the greatest Superman stories ever told. They're not a neccessity once they fulfill their duty raising him and he's an adult. The only Kent that is absolutely neccessary for any Superman as an adult story is Clark.

 

[Crook]

If we were to filter out everything we don't need, we'd be erasing so much of the mythos that it'd just feel very incomplete.

The Kents aren't absolutely necessary, but they do serve a purpose. As do Perry and Jimmy. And (insert another supporting character).

 

[Crook]

If we were to filter out everything we don't need, we'd be erasing so much of the mythos that it'd just feel very incomplete.

The Kents aren't absolutely necessary, but they do serve a purpose. As do Perry and Jimmy. And (insert another supporting character).

 

[Cain]

If we were to filter out everything we don't need, we'd be erasing so much of the mythos that it'd just feel very incomplete.

The Kents aren't absolutely necessary, but they do serve a purpose. As do Perry and Jimmy. And (insert another supporting character).

I think everybody he encounters in Metropolis (not just the Planet staff) is more than enough. I'd rather screen time be spent on those characters than on Ma & Pa Kent visiting Superman in Metropolis or Superman flying back to Smallville. I won't go on a shooting parade either if they were to be kept past the Smallville scenes provided we get an origin but I honestly feel they're some of the most dispensable aspects of the mythology.

But that's the thing about Superman and DC characters in general their flexibility. That they could be reinterpreted in so many different ways and still resonate with the audience. That's the reason I've always been a DC fan.

 

[Doright]

This is from Millarworld itself. (Don't have the link now). Mark Millar's views on Supermaan and how would *FIX* him....

On his connection to Batman: "[Superman and Batman are] both orphans. They absolutely understand each other and know that there's nobody else they can count on as much as they other. PS I know Superman isn't an orphan in this dreadful period he's been under seige (from 1986 until Hitchy and I fix him again), but the true understanding of the character is, like Bambi, he loses his Mum and Dad again. All the iconic heroes do whether it's Superman, Bambi or Batman."

On why Bryan Hitch is his ideal Superman collaborator: "Hitchy's even worse than me. Although he looks much older and has trouble sleeping through the night without a piss, Hitchy is only three weeks younger than me. Thus, we grew up on the same Cary Bates Superman comics aged 6-14. Exactly the same comics. We were also 8 years old when we saw Superman and Hitch, like me, can repeat the entire movie line for line. You should hear our daily phone chats. They're a hymn to Superman. Fixing this mess has been our destiny. It'll happen. Not for a while, but it'll happen."

On Clark Kent: "Clark is a pair of glasses. Superman doesn't need glasses. He puts on the glasses for no practical reason; just to dress up and pretend to be this mid-westwern guy he's not as a means of rubbing shoulders with the people on this planet. Superman would have thought he was human until puberty. Until maybe 12. The easiest way to understand it is to think of Jesus in the temple and the moment where his mother has to tell him the truth. He always knew he was different and alone. This is when it was all explained to him. He could still love his parents, but Clark is him trying to understand what humans are all about. As Elliot Maggin puts it, Clark Kent is a living, breathing work of art."

On Lois Lane: "Superman doesn't love Lois. Clark loves Lois and Superman tries HARD to love Lois, but he can't because she's the wrong species. But he tries. Again, Maggin sums it up beautifully. It doesn't have to be complicated... Clark loves Lois, Lois loves Superman, Superman loves Clark [...] Perfect. This is also one of the reasons Superman shouldn't be married to Lois. It's just stupid. It makes no sense and destroys the whole dynamic. Superman is God, Jor-El is the Holy Spirit and Clark Kent is Jesus. The Kents are Mary and Joseph and Lois is Mary Magdelene. She's the NYC girl who's ____ed her way around the city and found nobody who measures up. She's just had it with men and is focusing on her career... then Superman shows up. This is why Margot Kidder was perfect for the role and why Lois should be played by someone around 30 even if Supes is being played by a 25 year old. You'll see what I mean when we fix it."

On the current version of the character: "[Kingdom Come] is close to perfect. Waid gets it. None of the other American writers do, though Loeb comes close. His only weakness is getting caught up in the whole farmboy thing. The farm is where he grew up and knew he was NOTHING LIKE THESE PEOPLE. He affects it for the Clark persona, but that's it. He's as Kryptonian as Jesus is divine. Did Jesus shag Mary Mag? I don't think so. Superman should never shag Lois. It's insane and what happens when artists start touching tyoewriters. Jimmy is the reader-identification figure and the comedy relief. PS I'm saving everything else for the launch. No other ideas from me here, I'm afraid, in case some ____ nicks em."

On mixing metaphors: "No brimstone for Superman. He's interesting enough without it. He sees Earth the way immigrants saw America 100 years ago. He sees a chance for hope and a new life after losing his homeland as a kid. He loves people because he recognizes their great potential and, like Krypton, he wants to encourage them towards the Utopia his father sent him from. Forget Byrne. Read the Bible."

On the previous pitch Millar had made with Grant Morrison, Mark Waid and Tom Peyer: "The pitch we did was very late 90s and all the things I WOULDN'T do if Superman was being revamped now. It was nice, but it was the whole retro 60s thing that Grant's into as opposed to what I'd want to do myself. This thing was pretty good, but would be absolutely wrong for now. It still had Superman married to Lois and all that ____. There was another draft Mark Waid added with Earth getting a mind-wipe to forget that stuff and it had some nice touches, but I'd just start from scratch."

On how close Superman is to humanity: "Humans were apes less than 50 million years ago. Kryptonians are what we'd be like in 20 billion years. I have this all worked out as part of the proposal. In the last two years, I've filled two entire ring-binders with the plan. There's some AMAZING stuff in here. Hitch has also been doing little design doodles for the last five years. It's fate that we met."


This was Millar in an interview from 2004. I found this on newsarama which was originally from MILLARWORLD. It's a wizard interview.

uuggggg. No way.. Not even close. I am sorry but that is just so wrong I don't even know where to begin.

forget all this biology stuff.. We're talking science fiction here. The idea Superman can't be intimate with Lois is such a bunch of crap made up by boys who still think girls have cooties and get grossed out when their hero kisses one. Fact is inter planetary mating has been a common thing in science fiction since... well forever....

but the worst idea is the idea of Superman as this aloft being that sees himself above Humanity and only pretends to be human in order to play some kind of game and keep tabs on his peeps?

People who buy into that just don't get it. What makes Superman so great is not because he is from another planet and has fantastic powers but because of the way he was raised manages to bring the best of humanity out in his personality... He is more than just his powers and his planet of origin. His learning the best of humanity is what makes him Superman and not just another DC hero with powers. It's more important than his ability to bench press ocean liners by far. Even batman commented once in the Batman Superman comments about how ironic it was that the "Alien" was the most human person he knew. (I don't have the exact quote at hand but it was something like that.)

Kingdom Come is mentioned in that article as a story that "get's it" ... Now correct me if I am wrong but wasn't the Superman in that story basically a bitter old man because after the death of those he loved he basically lost his touch with his humanity but in the end figured that out and yada yada yada... maybe I am mistaken and am thinking of a different story but I don't understand how a famed writer like Miller could say the story "gets it" but yet totally misses the point of the very story he's talking about?

Superman can't love Lois? Bull#### The whole point of that love story is that Love can over come anything.. even people from other planets can find it. It's a love story that inspires hope. People want superman to be this brooding loner who's Destin to be alone forever but that was never the idea of the character. He's always had Lois and she has always been destined to be his love. Batman fills the brooding loner roll. Superman is not that. He's Hope personified and he plays that part by his showing the best in humanity, proving even an Alien can find his soul mate, and showing that child that lost everything (his entire race) can find a warm loving home in the arms of a farmer and his wife a million lightyears away.


If those comments of Millers find their way into the movie they might as well call it Bizzaro returns instead of anything else because that ain’t Superman. :|

 

[Steelsheen]

I know this was in response to Sage but I have to intervene for a sec with this

It's that simple there is no need to overthink it because that's what makes Supes so damn great in the eyes of millions of fans. The truth is Superman is not Batman he's not Spider-Man he's not a human being. He creates lifesize robots with superior intellect. He's a damn genius beyond human capacity. Everything the Kent's taught him he processed he spent his entire childhood and teen years with them.

You don't have to keep reminding him that's what Clark Kent represents. He's Supes' link to humanity and he loves that very much. It was the Kent's gift to him they were instrumental in the persona's reation. Clark is a byproduct of the Kent's upbringing & since they helped him come up with it it means the world to him. Every single ideal and principle they instilled on him Clark is the vessel for that.

It's like if you write books for a living & there is one novel you value and cherish the most it is the one you're most proud of. If you're a producer that song that was very personal to you is one of the greatest achievements in your eyes and your favorite. That's Clark Kent to Superman it's what he'd like to be but what he cannot be because he's superhuman.

Clark is all about the Kent's influence on him and a reminder of how good human beings could really be. He uses that identity to not only ground and humble himself but teach the world that too. It stems from his love for humanity it's not a mockery like what Quentin Tarantino thinks.

So he is the important one he is neccessary the Kent's though are dispensable. For the record I like them alive to but seriously you got Lois & Clark, the cartoon from the 90's and Smallville to enjoy them on a more consistent level. Not only that Ma is still alive in the Donnerverse movies. We need something fresh now. A new Superman film needs to present Superman to the world cause they've forgotten how cool he was.

Well that was easy. t:

bah, you're not the only one who can do that Sage
here's mine... err... Crook's

If we were to filter out everything we don't need, we'd be erasing so much of the mythos that it'd just feel very incomplete.

The Kents aren't absolutely necessary, but they do serve a purpose. As do Perry and Jimmy. And (insert another supporting character).

come to think of it, if we do erase everything we dont need, we'd only be left with Superman, Kryptonite, Lex Luthor and hapless victim that needs saving. can we make a decent, moral story with just those 4 elements? i guess if we're talking about cartoons we could.

Yeah, but he has no connections to them apart from his genetic heritage. He doesn't know them at all. He was raised by a normal family structure. So it's completely different. Him losing his genetic parents has no effect on him. He doesn't find out till he's 12. It's not like he lost a real set of parents that he had the normal rapport a son has with his mother and father. The Kent family is his real family.

i remember someone saying something like this: The Kents raised Clark. Jor-El and Lara (via the Fortress of Solitude) raised Superman. it is up to Kal-El to unify these two different natures to become the great man that he eventually becomes.

 

[DrMylesOBoogie]

Mark Millar's take on Superman is as bad as Singers.

 

[MichaelEsquire]

I believe at one point he said he wanted to adapt Birthright which if you look at it is almost a "Begins" like story. It only has a brief moment of Krypton but the way it all comes back to it is pretty well done and I wouldn't mind seeing that visually, especially where Luthor makes the world believe that there's a Kryptonian invasion to make Superman look bad.

 

[DrMylesOBoogie]

Birthright was great idea poorly executed. John Bryne's MOS is better even tho Im not fond of the Last Son of Krypton angle or the emotionless kryptonians.

 

[Showtime]

I think the perfect Superman movie would involve the directors original take heavily using elments from the comics to create his own vision. I don't think a direct inpretation of Birthright is the way to go, certainly some elements should seriously be used. I hate to bring up Nolan again in the Superman forum, but this is how it should be done.

 

[dark_b]

use the best stories and make an adaptation to fit in your movie....in your movie story.

so much history. everything can be used. even from the 80's. lets not focus only on superman from the 90's and 2000

 

[Cain]

forget all this biology stuff.. We're talking science fiction here. The idea Superman can't be intimate with Lois is such a bunch of crap made up by boys who still think girls have cooties and get grossed out when their hero kisses one. Fact is inter planetary mating has been a common thing in science fiction since... well forever....

Yeah that's the one thing I disagree with too.

but the worst idea is the idea of Superman as this aloft being that sees himself above Humanity and only pretends to be human in order to play some kind of game and keep tabs on his peeps?

Where are you getting this from because it's nowhere in what you quoted and are talking against. Sees himself above humanity? "He loves people because he recognizes their great potential" this is straight from Millar's mouth peep that quote box if you don't believe me. The reason he "recognizes their great potential" is because he grew up with people that represent reaching that great potential.

Genuinely good and wholesome American citizens this is where the "American way" that follows "Truth, Justice and the" comes from. He believes in this world and cares a great deal for it he doesn't see himself above it he's honored to be here. He's a proud immigrant. Oh and he does pretend to be human because well he's not.

Clark is his tribute to the Kent's and it is indeed his way of rubbing shoulders with humanity and getting to know the world in a way that he can't when he's himself (Superman). It's not only that but it's also a way for him to get to help the world in a way that he can't do when he's who he is as well which is through journalism. Clark is the son of the selflessness that the Kent's taught him. They were his guides on this world like Joseph and Mary were to Jesus they instilled values in him that's where the religious references come from.

People who buy into that just don't get it.

Sure that's why it was in the comics all the way up to 1986.

He is more than just his powers and his planet of origin.

Again I ask where did Millar ever say otherwise?

People want superman to be this brooding loner who's Destin to be alone forever but that was never the idea of the character.

He doesn't brood often because he's strong enough to always keep his chin up but Superman was created as a loner. How can that never be the idea when he is last son of Krypton? this was the idea for 30 plus years, he's the only one of his kind on earth he could never truly fit in here because he's not human. He wishes there was someone else just like him on earth that he could relate to this is why Supergirl ends up being such an important character.

He's always had Lois and she has always been destined to be his love.

Lois' role is this she's the woman in love with Superman it's no more than that. Superman realizes this and sees an opportunity to actually try to settle with someone like normal people do. Find the Martha to his Jonathan if you will. The thing is he uses Clark to try to do this since that's his link to humanity.

Clark is the closest he could ever get to be what he wishes he was but is not, which is being just like everybody else. However Lois doesn't care about Clark he's just some dude to her this is why she's in love with Superman who is something to her no other guy is. That's the irony that not only is he his own competition, but also the woman he has an interest in would only really love him back if he is who he actually is and not who he pretends to be because a big part of him wishes he was like us.

If those comments of Millers find their way into the movie

Then we could end up with a good movie.

 

[Cain]

I think the perfect Superman movie would involve the directors original take heavily using elments from the comics to create his own vision. I don't think a direct inpretation of Birthright is the way to go.

Absolutely. The point of adaptation is taking the entire history and telling a new cinematic story by combining all the best elements. Notn a direct translation if people want Birthright it's right there sitting on their bookshelf it's not going anywhere.

 

[Cain]

come to think of it, if we do erase everything we dont need, we'd only be left with Superman, Kryptonite, Lex Luthor and hapless victim that needs saving. can we make a decent, moral story with just those 4 elements? i guess if we're talking about cartoons we could.

Well the Kents were dead for over 40 years and it worked out fine. There were actually more interesting and fun stories during that period too. It's about 2 things which is

1) Not emulating adaptations the public already knows.

2) Opening up more screen time for the world beyond Smallville in general.

Within the past 20 years Martha and Jonathan played recurring roles in Smallville, Lois & Clark, Superboy, Superman: The Animated Series and the Justice League spin-off's as well as Martha in Superman Returns. I mean the general public this is all they know. I think that's more than enough it's only fair to show the other side of the mythos too.

Superman becomes boring for a lot of people when you spend too much time with him trying to be human. It works best when there's more Superman than Clark but the Clark that we get is extremely effective. It's why people hail Superman: The Movie, the George Reeves series and the Fleischer cartoons as the best adaptations because they got that the Kent's were dispensible. You can't have Superman without the planet staff, Clark Kent and over the years Bibbo Bibbowski, Maggie Sawyer, Emil Hamilton, John Henry Irons etc.

Once Superman is an adult there is no need for the Kent's the role is done show us metropolis and really make us believe in the movie universe for one. The one mistake all Superman movies after the first made was not show us enough of the supporting characters as well.

 

[Steelsheen]

I think the perfect Superman movie would involve the directors original take heavily using elments from the comics to create his own vision. I don't think a direct inpretation of Birthright is the way to go, certainly some elements should seriously be used. I hate to bring up Nolan again in the Superman forum, but this is how it should be done.

use the best stories and make an adaptation to fit in your movie....in your movie story.

so much history. everything can be used. even from the 80's. lets not focus only on superman from the 90's and 2000

you guys nailed it.

if WB wants a repeat of the success of Nolan's Batman franchise, it isn't about making superheroes dark like Batman, its about using Nolan's formula (as explained excellently above) and adapting that into the Superman or whatever superhero franchise.

WB, are you reading this? we are spoon feeding you the secret of success again! dont wait another 5 years and a billion dollars down the toilet before you consider our suggestions.

 

[[A]]

So.. any news?

 

[dark_b]

you guys nailed it.

if WB wants a repeat of the success of Nolan's Batman franchise, it isn't about making superheroes dark like Batman, its about using Nolan's formula (as explained excellently above) and adapting that into the Superman or whatever superhero franchise.

WB, are you reading this? we are spoon feeding you the secret of success again! dont wait another 5 years and a billion dollars down the toilet before you consider our suggestions.

i am not an superman expert. before BB i didnt know about all the batma n graphic novels. like year one.after that i read it. and i loved it.
so what are the best stores? not birthright again. what else?

for example lex luthor:men of steel. this is something that i would personaly use a lot for lex luthror character..

 

[[A]]

i am not an superman expert. before BB i didnt know about all the batma n graphic novels. like year one.after that i read it. and i loved it.
so what are the best stores? not birthright again. what else?

for example lex luthor:men of steel. this is something that i would personaly use a lot for lex luthror character..

check this thread for good Superman stories (blatant spam)

 

[I Am The Knight]

You know, I'm warming up to Millar, thanks to you guys. I recognize I might have been a little hasty in my dismissal of his ideas I still plan on reading his Superman comics when I can.

 

[[A]]

You know, I'm warming up to Millar, thanks to you guys. I recognize I might have been a little hasty in my dismissal of his ideas I still plan on reading his Superman comics when I can.

We gonna end up wearing Millar shirts!

 

[I Am The Knight]

We gonna end up wearing Millar shirts!

Yee-haw! Hold your horses there, pardner

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Yee-haw! Hold your horses there, pardner

I've been betrayed.

 

[I Am The Knight]

I've been betrayed.

To quote Peter Parker:

"Oh Boy."

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

To quote Peter Parker:

"Oh Boy."

A Spider-Man reference won't get you out of trouble.