Born Again Marvel Studios’ Daredevil: Born Again General Discussion Thread

[Sithborg]

Also, trashing parts of the OG Daredevil that some of us might have liked is supposed to make us trust him?

 

[Breogan]

"*Showrunner cites The Sopranos and King Of New York, both critically acclaimed works, as influence on the new show*

Netflix Daredevil fans: SHUT IT ALL DOWN!!! I HATE IT HERE

I'm cautiously optimistic, as we are getting mixed signals,
I thought the Netflix series was one of the better Marvel products out there, and while I would have preferred they hired the Netflix creative team, from what I'v seen and heard so far, after scrapping the first Disney team, the first thing this new team did was reaffirm Karen and Foggy's presence, this seems like a legit direction and take.

Charlie Cox -(https://www.gamesradar.com/entertainment/marvel-tv-shows/daredevil/) - "There was a U-turn after the strike, where we were headed in one direction which was interesting and valid." ....“Marvel looked at the episodes and knew it wasn’t quite working. We shot a whole new pilot and they reorganised what we had filmed to make it feel more like the show we had shot all those years previously."

Charlie Cox - #DaredevilBornAgain: “I think of Karen and Foggy as being the heartbeat of Daredevil without them, nothing that Matt does really has any emotional impact. The humanity and vulnerability that they brought to those characters allows me as Matt to really delve into the darkness.”

Dario Scardapane - "[The footage] had some really strong points, but it wasn't feeling in line with what Daredevil had been established to be.”

Scardapane- “At the very end of the Netflix show, Foggy, Karen and Matt had a dream written out on the back of a napkin. We start with that dream. It’s not a dream that needs too much explanation; three good friends go into business together."

However the new showrunner describing the Netflix show as too "navel gazing" ..."people grousing about their lot in life", when it's the character drive and human drama that also made it worth watching.
If it is now just falling back on violence, with little substance, I will tune-out.
Though I think this describes pretty well what to expect, which is a fare theme for the character.

"The humanity and vulnerability that they brought to those characters allows me as Matt to really delve into the darkness.”

 

[Pennywise]

More grounded than Penguin? Not sure I believe that!

 

[TheVileOne]

The Netflix series was far from perfect and had plenty of flaws. I'm open to seeing if improvements can be made. Sometimes I think people put it on too high of a pedestal.

The first season was like 9/10 for me. Season 2 was like a 7/10 or 7.5 out of 10.0. Season 3 was a 5/10.

 

[Filmfan93]

The Netflix series was far from perfect and had plenty of flaws. I'm open to seeing if improvements can be made. Sometimes I think people put it on too high of a pedestal.

The first season was like 9/10 for me. Season 2 was like a 7/10 or 7.5 out of 10.0. Season 3 was a 5/10.

That's certainly a hot take regarding Season 3.

 

[TheVileOne]

That's certainly a hot take regarding Season 3.

One which I have no problem serving up every day.

 

[DyeLorean]

Netflix's Daredevil was better than any TV show Marvel Studios has put on Disney+ since. And I firmly believe that. It looked and felt like a proper series. It had a showrunner, the episodes and the seasons had a structure, the running time wasn't all over the place like the script for episode 3 looks incomplete so here's 27 minutes of it, 6 of them are credits btw. Characters had depth. It was really good.
Marvel Studios' tv input so far leaves a lot to be desired. Special effects might be great, but the rest? No no.

 

[Lily Adler]

Something tells me Matt and Jen never happened in Born Again.

 

[Breogan]

"https://***********/DDevilUpdates/status/1883886039347118334?ref_src=twsrc^tfw"

Something tells me Matt and Jen never happened in Born Again.

"Something"?
Scardapane - "those other events [in Spider-Man and She-Hulk] happened, but some of them we are not leaning into. His one-night stand with She-Hulk may be one of those things."
Suggesting they are " not leaning into" = just ignoring it.
Which is fine, if it ads nothing to the story and tone they are going for.
Shulk borrowed the character for a more irreverent camp take, this clearly wants to go back to reference the Netflix series, even darker.

 

[Lily Adler]

.


"Something"? He pretty much said so.
"those other events [in Spider-Man and She-Hulk] happened, but some of them we are not leaning into. His one-night stand with She-Hulk may be one of those things."
Suggesting they are " not leaning into" = just ignoring it.
Which is fine, if it ads nothing to the story.

Something tells me you agree.

 

[donuts]

Something tells me Matt and Jen never happened in Born Again.

Does it really matter? It happened in She-Hulk, it won't be adressed in Born Again.

 

[Lily Adler]

Does it really matter? It happened in She-Hulk, it won't be adressed in Born Again.

If you liked She Hulk...

 

[donuts]

If you liked She Hulk...

Well, if you liked She-Hulk, no one will take that episode and Matt and Jennifer hooking up away from you.

 

[Lily Adler]

Well, if you liked She-Hulk, no one will take that episode and Matt and Jennifer hooking up away from you.

 

[donuts]

Healthy mindset!

 

[AndrewGilkison]

Something tells me Matt and Jen never happened in Born Again.

Unless She-Hulk shows up in Born Again and play any kind of a role, why would the subject come up? I doubt Kingpin is going to ask Matt about it. "Hey Murdock... I heard you hooked up with that green lawyer chick when you went to LA... what was it like?"

 

[donuts]

Racist henchman: "Like 'em green, huh?"

*loathsome laughter ensues, tension rises*

 

[psylockolussus]

I dunno. Sometimes you can see the limits of Disney+ production values. Moon Knight never looked that good to me. I'd say this looks pretty similar to the Netflix show, which didn't exactly have cinematic level production values either. You'd see Daredevil do like maybe one impressive stunt a season because they didn't have a CG effects budget.

Season 2 you do see Daredevil do a Big Swing moment and it's really cool but it only happens once. I hated the one take fight sequence in Season 3 because it just goes on too long, it's way too brightly lit, and it's just Matt in his civilian clothes. I also just found the prison setting rather absurd.

Also after the first season after they narratively establish his radar sense, we never see Radar Sense Vision again, which I never understood. We should see Radar Sense make a return in Born Again. And we should see Daredevil doing more fantastic feats and swinging through the air.



In the comics and animation, Daredevil is the Man Without Fear. He can do things that normal humans can't. His enhanced senses give him abilities and allow him to do feats that regular people cannot. He should be able to jump off of buildings and swing around. The comics always give the sense that Daredevil can run across and swing from buildings with ease because his radar sense and enhanced senses basically make it easy for him, almost like a cheat code.

I want to see Daredevil moving like this and swinging from buildings in a live-action TV series.

Visually, Moon Knight looked pretty good in the first episode. But like the other Mcu shows that looked like they had the production values of a MCU film, it was inconsistent by the follow up episodes. Reminded me of season 1 of Loki. The Falcon and the Winter Soldier looked pretty good. The recent upload from Marvel Studios' YT reminded me how that show could easily pass as a film just by seeing its visuals. I seriously thought it was a clip from Brave New World, until I read the comments section. I liked the visuals of Loki season 2, way more than season 1, and it was consistent up to the last scene of Loki holding the strings of the multiverse.

Its just hard to keep the cinematic look when it comes to these shows, when they are splitting a budget of a MCU film, to a series with double the amount of content compare to a movie. Some things are just going to look cheap. And they are probably not going to spend $200 million again for a mcu show after what happened in the last few years.

 

[DyeLorean]

I often wondered why don't they use the same budget of 6 hours of TV and make a really good 2-hour movie? There's a really really good movie somewhere inside The Falcon and the Winter Soldier. Same with Moon Knight. There's a cool Mummy-style supernatural/horror/adventure in there.
Disney+ really came to f*** everything up.

 

[psylockolussus]

I often wondered why don't they use the same budget of 6 hours of TV and make a really good 2-hour movie? There's a really really good movie somewhere inside The Falcon and the Winter Soldier. Same with Moon Knight. There's a cool Mummy-style supernatural/horror/adventure in there.
Disney+ really came to f*** everything up.

I'm assuming that a series airing new episodes for 6 to 9 weeks, would keep the subscribers longer, than a straight to streaming movie.

 

[Lily Adler]

I often wondered why don't they use the same budget of 6 hours of TV and make a really good 2-hour movie? There's a really really good movie somewhere inside The Falcon and the Winter Soldier. Same with Moon Knight. There's a cool Mummy-style supernatural/horror/adventure in there.
Disney+ really came to f*** everything up.

Marvel saw the Netflix shows and thought, we can do that too...

 

[DyeLorean]

I'm assuming that a series airing new episodes for 6 to 9 weeks, would keep the subscribers longer, than a straight to streaming movie.

See that's what really bothers me.

 

[psylockolussus]

See that's what really bothers me.

Another factor is they might want to save their Marvel feature films hitting the cinemas first. With these shows debuting in Disney+ and the movies debuting in theaters first, there's at least an obvious distinction between the two.

Guardians X-Mas and Werewolf the Night are technically full length movies, but they labeled them as "special presentation" which is weird because they aren't similar to traditional TV "specials".

If it was up to me, the shows would have been 2 hour movies, but obviously business-wise, that won't be good to keeping subscribers and might affect the box office of their theaterical Marvel movies.

 

[DyeLorean]

Another factor is they might want to save their Marvel feature films hitting the cinemas first. With these shows debuting in Disney+ and the movies debuting in theaters first, there's at least an obvious distinction between the two.

Guardians X-Mas and Werewolf the Night are technically full length movies, but they labeled them as "special presentation" which is weird because they aren't similar to traditional TV "specials".

If it was up to me, the shows would have been 2 hour movies, but obviously business-wise, that won't be good to keeping subscribers and might affect the box office of their theaterical Marvel movies.

It's a tricky thing to pull off, I'm aware of that.
I just wish they could've done a proper, full length series. Not a movie chopped in six pieces.
Or make them movies and just call them "Special Presentation", make it different to get people in the streaming service. Or a three-hour mini series. Whatever. But those 20 min+ filler episodes where nothing happens is ridiculous.

 

[psylockolussus]

A tv series imo is just not a good medium for live action Marvel. Limited in action. Budget restraints. The movies are still the bread/butter of Marvel Studios, so these shows aren't gonna get the same care/attention as the movies.