I'm only going to reply to certain parts because it's a lot to reply to.
Yeahhhhh I know I'm a wordy poster but that's the benefit of forum posts is that I can get my complete thought across. You don't have to reply to any part you don't feel like.
I skipped the Punisher thing because we simply straight up disagree. It might be because I'm an attorney (I talked to a co-worker at the time who has done TV consult work before and she indicated she reached out to the Daredevil team and offered to work for them for free because it was so bad).
Very cool. Fair enough if you thought the punisher trial scenes were not only bad but very bad. I'm just struggling to see how you could watch the white tiger trial and find it an improvement.
So I disagree that there's a need to include everything about what happened during that time.
I don't think I said
everything needs to be included about what happened during that time, did I? What I meant was that the most important story beats needed to be addressed.
It sounds like, from what we've seen, that Nelson and Murdock was doing decently well, that Matt and Karen are just friends, and that Matt found someone to build him suits.
Yeah I'm guessing it's the character we saw in She-Hulk who probably ships the suits to NY.
I'm not sure what other gaps there were that needed to be filled in.
The event I focused on was Kingpin's second incarceration. That absolutely deserved a proper delineation, but it was explained with a line of dialogue which retroactively ruined season 3 and also is just bamboozling. I brought this up in my previous response to you, and I've explained why maybe 3 or 4 times in this thread.
I think you're using the behind the scenes information about what they planned to do as a criticism of what they've shown.
Of course I am. I've said in the thread that I'm not going to cut them slack just because of the creative overhaul. They deserve credit for making the show better than it was going to be, but I think too much credit was given because the end result was still a disappointment anyway.
If anything, my instinct is the opposite. They did try to address your specific concerns in a show that wasn't designed to address your concerns.
Yes, I said as much in the thread too. They either didn't address important story beats, or did a poor job of addressing them.
But I also don't think it's a requirement that go into the details of exactly what you're talking about.
It's weird to use the word "requirement" here because we're talking about a TV show that's an installment of the biggest film franchise in the world by one of if not the biggest movie studio in the world. They aren't "required" to do anything, and their bottom line is to make as much money as possible.
But as a consumer, I'm being critical about the product on the service that I paid for. It's not a question about what's required and what's not, it's only a question of how good or bad this product is compared to how great it used to be.
Same with Kingpin. They do attempt to explain things, they just don't do it to your satisfaction.
Exactly. They either didn't explain things or did a poor job of it. In this case it's the latter.
I also suspect they weren't consciously trying to reboot in No Way Home, so much as keeping their options open.
Is that so? Well if they were halfway there by bringing the actor back, what made them decide to not go all the way initially?
One thing I'll absolutely push back with is Kirsten replacing Marci. A) They're wildly different characters (there's a much stronger argument that Kirsten replaced Karen) and B) Kirsten is a comics character. Introducing new comics characters is a good thing. Same with Heather Glenn. Leroy isn't Turk and I would have been disappointed if they tried that with Turk. Turk isn't someone you feel sorry for his circumstances.
Right in the first episode, Matt & Karen were gossiping about Foggy flirting with Kirsten. Right there just with that tease, I see that as Kirsten replacing Marci because it should have been her at the bar with Foggy, like she's been before. I also mentioned in the thread that their relationship was as strong as it ever was in season 3 and she was a big part of his character arc all throughout the show. I am aware that Kirsten is a comic character and I agree that introducing new comics characters is a good thing, but sidelining or dismissing characters that already exist in an adaptation is a bad thing, and it's a slap in the face to the actress since she's hoped the show would return for a long time.
I don't see her as replacing Karen since Karen is on the show. If you meant that she replaced Karen's role, yeah perhaps she did but she's also a lawyer which Marci was. As I said, the law firm could have continued to be Nelson & Murdock if they brought Marci back and eventually it could have been Nelson McDuffie & Murdock.
I didn't say anything about Heather. I didn't like her character, but that's a whole nother subject.
Turk was
that character in the Netflix show always getting himself into trouble. Having him take Leroy's role would have expanded his role and given the character more depth and dimension. And it would have been a funny irony since Matt crossed paths with him so many times as Daredevil. It would be funny for him since he would know about it and not Turk. FYI, a lot of people don't feel all that sympathetic to Leroy's case anyway.
Not every character has to be there if there isn't a role for them. I'd love to see Sister Maggie appear again, but it's also worth pointing out that she disappeared for decades in the comics. She was first introduced in Born Again. I think she appeared once in Nocenti's run, once in Guardian Devil, and once in Waid's run. I believe that's it.
Season 4 didn't say anything about Sister Maggie disappearing. All we got was a throwaway line about her in episode 5. So I'm inclined to believe that this was another case of the showrunners not caring enough to bring the actress back. And she had a role to take, and that was going to be Matt's mentor.
Matt's Catholicism is absolutely referenced. I believe he prays the rosary at one point. They also have him pass and listen in on a church. It's not a point of emphasis, but it's there. I feel like this would be suggesting that he's out of character because they don't focus on the lawyer stuff in season 3.
I know that his Catholicism was absolutely references and that he prays at one point. I said there wasn't
enough of an emphasis on it. The bolded is the key thing there. And it makes Sister Maggie's absence hurt even more.
So, that's a very vague description, but it's also not particularly relevant.
I would link the full article if I could, but I pulled the only quote I could find on Reddit.
I think it's more important to illustrate how he's portrayed in the show, not how he was described before the show started. He was an investigator and gave Matt some leads. But the biggest thing is the conscience part. He was there as a foil to explore how Matt is dealing with the turmoil of Foggy's death. Mahoney didn't have that role at all.
What??? Brett has known Foggy for even longer than Matt has known him. Him being in the show in place of Cherry would have meant even more emotional impact on his alleged death!
To me, Mahoney's role better resembles Detective Kim. He's a source in the police department that wrestles with that balance of rule of law vs. supporting a vigilante.
Definitely not. Brett Mahoney had a connection with Matt Murdock the lawyer AND Daredevil the superhero. He even gave Daredevil his superhero name. He's had run-ins with both the lawyer side and the superhero side all throughout seasons 1-3, and he even got a promotion from Sargeant to detective because of it.
Kim had zero scenes with Daredevil apart from the very end of season 4 and not at all the connection that Brett had with Daredevil we previously saw.
I would also argue a larger point that would encompass your point about characters "replacing" other characters (particularly secondary characters). If you rely on the same three or four characters, you run the risk of it feeling like a small world. New York City has 8.2 Million people. I'm fine with there being new characters. I don't think that indicates a lack of continuity or is a gap that needs to be explained.
I'm aware of how large NYC is. In fact I'm on the subway on my way there for work as I'm typing this post to you. But I don't think this is relevant at all because we're talking about a fictional TV show with fictional characters. These fictional characters are people with relationships and never did I think it was a small world. I've only ever thought as an audience member that it's weird how season 4 has no mention of characters who showed up in all of the previous ones.
