Marvel Studios will Go Head to Head with Batman vs. Superman

[jmc]

Both studios made errors. Marvel screwed up by not actually announcing anything, and WB screwed up by assuming they would push Marvel out of that release date. Now we've got this ridiculous situation whereby both studios are going to try and bully the other out of that date with there being potential repercussions depending on which studio backs off.

 

[DA_Champion]

Check out something interesting.

io9.com of Gawker, possibly the most popular hollywood-focused science fiction and fantasy blog on the internet, has an article debating the pros and cons of the showdown between BvS and Cap 3.
http://io9.com/who-wins-when-captain-america-goes-up-against-batman-an-1560967481

I browsed through the comments, and ... every single one of the comments is supportive of Marvel, all of them are either neutral to DC/WB or hostile to DC/WB.

I've noticed on that site that if I say anything skeptical of Thor 2 it gets voted down, and anything positive about DC gets voted down as well. The Cuba-like uniformity of the comments indicates that it is not just me.

It's disturbing. I do wonder if Disney pays a 3 or 4 professional trolls to do this all day, as it is known that corporate America frequently does.

 

[Mr. Dent]

lol bruh

 

[mclay18]

Ca:Tws and MoS have very similar climaxes.

I can see where people are coming from, but again like I said, Zod and Bucky's motivations and circumstances are completely different. Did people really think Zod would stop and be remorseful? No, he wasn't brainwashed and would've killed lots more after that family. I can't see how people would see that as a cop-out or something OOC... people aren't getting the mindset of MOS.

Winter Soldier/Bucky was brainwashed, pure and simple. His goals were defined by that, and Steve sought to change that. People seem to forget that in the course of three MS films, Steve is and was a soldier. You see him killing people with his shield, moves or gunplay.

Steve's hands are dirtier than Clark's at this point.

 

[Marvin]

I can see where people are coming from, but again like I said, Zod and Bucky's motivations and circumstances are completely different. Did people really think Zod would stop and be remorseful? No, he wasn't brainwashed and would've killed lots more after that family. I can't see how people would see that as a cop-out or something OOC... people aren't getting the mindset of MOS.

Winter Soldier/Bucky was brainwashed, pure and simple. His goals were defined by that, and Steve sought to change that. People seem to forget that in the course of three MS films, Steve is and was a soldier. You see him killing people with his shield, moves or gunplay.

Steve's hands are dirtier than Clark's at this point.

Zod was 'genetically programmed'(what ever that means) according to some lines of thinking, perhaps the MoS could have pulled a Rogers and [BLACKOUT]talked him out of it, perhaps by way of a citing common memory of friendship from their shared past life and letting zod get run away to contemplate on his own time.[/BLACKOUT] Deep down zod is a hero and superman never gave him the chance. A shame really.

Would have been a great superman moment.

This thread seems like trouble no?

 

[metaphysician]

Steve's hands are dirtier than Clark's at this point.

Like hell they are. Steve has only ever killed people as part of deliberate, justifiable acts of war and defense-of-others. Clark has gotten people killed through incompetence. The latter is *far* worse than the former.

 

[mclay18]

Zod was 'genetically programmed'(what ever that means) according to some lines of thinking, perhaps the MoS could have pulled a Rogers and [BLACKOUT]talked him out of it, perhaps by way of a citing common memory of friendship from their shared past life and letting zod get run away to contemplate on his own time.[/BLACKOUT] Deep down zod is a hero and superman never gave him the chance. A shame really.

Would have been a great superman moment.

You make a good point, however, in terms of MOS, what happened makes sense story-wise too. It leads to Superman establishing his no-kill rule, and it changes him permanently. What irritates me is that some fanboys tend to 'forget' that this event isn't new to the Superman mythos, let alone live-action film (Superman II anyone?).

I'm not arguing that people criticize MOS, because there are valid stuff for people to take MOS to task with. But comparing MOS to CA:TWS is apples vs. oranges. Former is an origin story, the latter is a sequel. You can't really make a good comparison unless you compare MOS with CA:TFA or CA:TWS with BvS.

 

[mclay18]

Like hell they are. Steve has only ever killed people as part of deliberate, justifiable acts of war and defense-of-others. Clark has gotten people killed through incompetence. The latter is *far* worse than the former.

Did you forget CA:TWS' climax with the Helicarriers crashing into the Potomac and into buildings? I'm pretty sure a good number people died because Fury, Natasha, and co. didn't evacuate the buildings prior to that.

We're really not going to devolve into an argument over the extensive property damage in MOS and CA:TWS, are we?

 

[Lord]

So, you need to kill another person to know that killing is wrong?

 

[The Endless]

Hey at least Supes showed remorse. Batman indirectly killed people whilst spouting off one liners

 

[Marvin]

You make a good point, however, in terms of MOS, what happened makes sense story-wise too. It leads to Superman establishing his no-kill rule, and it changes him permanently. What irritates me is that some fanboys tend to 'forget' that this event isn't new to the Superman mythos, let alone live-action film (Superman II anyone?).

I'm not arguing that people criticize MOS, because there are valid stuff for people to take MOS to task with. But comparing MOS to CA:TWS is apples vs. oranges. Former is an origin story, the latter is a sequel. You can't really make a good comparison unless you compare MOS with CA:TFA or CA:TWS with BvS.

I was being sarcastic in light of that article recently published comparing how cap and supes resolved their villains.

Most comparisons are apples and oranges, as with all the dead villains in Batman's wake. Fans seem to not really care about presented circumstance, more just want what they want.

 

[Marvin]

Like hell they are. Steve has only ever killed people as part of deliberate, justifiable acts of war and defense-of-others. Clark has gotten people killed through incompetence. The latter is *far* worse than the former.

Unreal, this post.

 

[Lord]

Not really, in many instances, Clark's actions have directly put people in danger, Blockbuster Buster even shows some of them.

 

[Raiden]

I can see where people are coming from, but again like I said, Zod and Bucky's motivations and circumstances are completely different. Did people really think Zod would stop and be remorseful? No, he wasn't brainwashed and would've killed lots more after that family. I can't see how people would see that as a cop-out or something OOC... people aren't getting the mindset of MOS.

Winter Soldier/Bucky was brainwashed, pure and simple. His goals were defined by that, and Steve sought to change that. People seem to forget that in the course of three MS films, Steve is and was a soldier. You see him killing people with his shield, moves or gunplay.

Steve's hands are dirtier than Clark's at this point.

Cap is a soldier, and he only kills when necessary on the battlefield and during missions like the hostage rescue in TWS. Do you think soldiers' hands are "dirty" in general?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Not really, in many instances, Clark's actions have directly put people in danger, Blockbuster Buster even shows some of them.

It is scary how people morph this kind of stuff to their view.

 

[Destructus86]

I'm totally going to be seeing both. Probably on that same weekend. But Batman vs Superman isn't really grabbing me yet. It should considering it's freaking Batman vs Superman...maybe it's just because they haven't shown us anything yet. At all.

 

[zeroapoc]

You put too much stock into review scores.

One review, sure. But I find that a site that accumulates a wide variety of critics to pretty much be on the money.

It's funny how people don't want to put stock in reviews when a film they cheer lead for gets negatives ones, but love to point it out when it's positive.

 

[Destructus86]

One review, sure. But I find that a site that accumulates a wide variety of critics to pretty much be on the money.

It's funny how people don't want to put stock in reviews when a film they cheer lead for gets negatives ones, but love to point it out when it's positive.

I never pay attention to professional reviewers. Even when they are grouped up with other professional reviewers.

I do however have a couple more indie reviewers I trust. Den of Geek has never been wrong for me yet.

 

[The Endless]

I had more of a problem with Supes personal retribution on the ******* truck driver than him killing Zod tbh.

 

[Marvin]

Not really, in many instances, Clark's actions have directly put people in danger, Blockbuster Buster even shows some of them.

If you look at his original post it's simply a short sighted comparison.

First, one needs to compare whom each hero has killed(murdered rather). I'd say cap takes that challenge by a long long shot.

The second part is a how many people they have consciously put in danger & resulting in said lives being lost. Ignoring the obvious experience discrepancy(caps first day wasn't to hot either). It's not all the different, TWS highway sequence in it's entirety for example, the amount of lives lost in TWS finale and all at the behest of Rogers adamant decision(even fury wanted to go another way). I'd compare this with the lives superman consciously put in harms way during smallville and with no thanks to the military. The stuff that happened in the finale is hard to call given superman's role it's timing or setting.

Cap is a soldier, and he only kills when necessary on the battlefield and during missions like the hostage rescue in TWS. Do you think soldiers' hands are "dirty" in general?

Yes I've heard this rhetoric a few times. Even under the mantle of Hero, Cap being a soldier means he can be a cold blooded killer depending the mission, stakes or day of the week, however that mostly only explains his motivation. As a society we give a pass, moral or otherwise, to gov't sanctioned killing during war(for some reason) or martial operations(cops). Even an atomic detonation under war times...I digress.
That all explains Cap's seamless motivation in committing his ugly work, that however does little to explain why we all of a sudden have a different, even lower, standard for our superheroes given their day jobs.
That is, it appears the difference between an audience member being outraged; at an inspirational hero taking a life simply comes down to whether or not that hero is working for his gov't whilst doing it? So all this talk of superman isn't all that heroic for taking the 'easy' way out and killing(with no choice) and lacking in that inspirational thing heroes do when they choose not to take a life regardless of circumstance...doesn't apply to the 'equally' inspirational hero that is Cap simply because of this detail.

I see that as a double standard and a cop out tbh.
It presumes that if superman is working for his gov't in a similar and official manner than he can run around with an AK, under the 'he's a solider clause'.
It begs one highlights just which gov't body/military operation superman was working with against the homeland threat in MOS. I recall superman explaining his plan to the highest ranking officer on site and getting the nod.
-Was it on a mission? Was it on a battle field? Were there hostages involved? Do super heroes get their hands dirty? Given the outlined standards as listed above it seems we're good to go for sanctioned killing in mos, and if it's sanctioned it's a thumbs up. I don't agree, but that's what the double standard has wrought.

Batman is a working ninja so...
Better yet what if superman was a solider on krypton given their genetic role selection customs....what that make this all a non issue?

I personally think it's a complicated matter fans need to give more time to breaking down.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Everyone, including reviewers, are entitled to their opinion. You clearly don't have to agree, though I do find it strange when people's "belief" in reviews seemed tied to their own affection for a project.

Take the Avengers and TDK. For their respective fanbases, their RT scores represent their quality. Of course these are the same people who when asked about the other film, claim that the RT score doesn't matter.

TDKR has a similar score to TWS. Yet TDKR "sucks", but TWS' score proves its quality.

 

[Lord]

It is scary how people morph this kind of stuff to their view.

What kind of stuff? Lol. Superman crashing into a gas station and exploding it in the middle of the day is what happened, what do you need more? Superman actually directly burning people?

 

[The Endless]

The thing is, there is some objectivity when it comes to films and critiquing them.

But personal preferences will still reign supreme. It's ok to like a badly made film. It's ok to dislike a well made film. Some people don't seem to get that.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I had more of a problem with Supes personal retribution on the ******* truck driver than him killing Zod tbh.

Every time I saw it, that got a great reaction. The punk from Bates Motel deserved it.

 

[The Endless]

Every time I saw it, that got a great reaction. The punk from Bates Motel deserved it.

Oh for sure he deserved it. But the character i've been reading for 20 odd years in the comics isn't too fond of using his powers for personal retribution. I mean that is the whole point of why Superman is such a great hero. He has all this power, but he doesn't give in to those temptations. That's why he's the whole "beacon of hope". Captain America has the same thing going on. I couldn't imagine him doing something like that.

I think it was Figs who pointed out that this is at a time when Clark/Kal is kinda unsure of himself though. So i can forgive it to some extent.