Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Marvel's Agents of SHIELD 5x22 "The End" Discussion Thread

[Panacea]

I still don't get why Fitz wasn't on Enoch's list. Him staying behind served no major purpose. Sure once he got to the future Lighthouse, he helped the team get back. What difference would it have made if he was already there with the team in the first place?

Well it wasn't really Enoch's list, it was Robin's list. She told him who he sends to the future so that's who he sent. The question isn't why did he leave Fitz, the question is why would he have sent him?

 

[KevTravels]

Coulson will die but actually in Tahiti this time.

Fitz is still in cryosleep in space. Remember, the whole gang went back in time so Fitz is still in his slumber, somewhere in space. Season 6 will be them trying to find him, probably. Enoch is probably still alive with him too.

Thanks. Seemed to have gone right over my head.

 

[raz1337]

So, we never found out what that third monolith was.

It still bugs me that Yo-Yo just didn't *tell* them what caused the destruction in the first place. Would it have been that difficult when she was talking to herself from the past to say "Talbot is infused with Gravitonium?"

But, let's say there are a few versions of the timeline:

1) Someone other than Talbot causes Earth to go boom, likely Ruby or possibly Quake.

2) Agents are pulled to the future for the first time, then go back. With the knowledge they now have, events shift, but the end result is the same. They still fail. Likely, they save Coulson, but Talbot isn't stopped and causes Earth to go boom. Also, this is their first attempt and failure, which is where Yo-Yo we see in the future loses her arms.

3) They are pulled to the future again, but this time Yo-Yo is there and warns them, so they are more determined to break the loop. This is the team we see in season 5.

Personally, I just really wanted to see the events of the first version of the timeline in more detail, such as what happened, who caused it, etc.

 

[ZIPBAGS]

Saw a TV Guide article about Fitz...seems like the producers are hinting they will get the frozen Fitz back.

 

[Jesse]

This really felt like a series finale and a nice swan song for Coulson and May. I was surprised to read that the show was indeed picked up for a sixth season and am interested in the new status quo moving forward.

 

[just one thing]

The Deke thing is just bad writing. Whether it's a linear timeline or an alternate timeline there's no scenario in which effect would precede cause - and Flitz and Simmons should both know this.

If it's a linear timeline then there'd be no more prophecy, no more Robin sending them to a future that doesn't exist, and the entire events of the season would play out differently with no one having any memory of the Lighthouse.

If it's an alternate timeline then everything would play out as it has, but Deke would still be alive. There's no "cause" to the effect that is his disappearance, because everything that lead to him being born still happened, just in his previous timeline - the one where we saw Flint and Tess alive and well even after the team went back.

For the sake of logical consistency it has to be an alternate timeline, but for that to be true Deke must still be out there too.



Agreed. Daisy came to her senses for a moment and May completely lost hers when she smashed the Odium. I don't care that it all worked out - that was just plain dumb.

robin told her coulson was the key so may was in the same position as yoyo but different side. She closed the option by smashing the odium, same thing yoyo was trying to do by taking the serum.



Coulson agreed with yoyo gave the serum to daisy, loop broken.



they were both right.

 

[Panacea]

robin told her coulson was the key [...]

I thought she just told her that he would bring the pieces together?

 

[just one thing]

I thought she just told her that he would bring the pieces together?

apologies, i was paraphrasing. The point still stands old robin told may that which put her in the same position as yoyo.

 

[chamber-music]

Saving Coulson was the WRONG move...even if it works.

They will win because the script requires that they win. But their decisions are stupid.

I agree. It is selfish and unheroic to put saving Coulson over saving the planet.

 

[karmajack]

Personally, I just really wanted to see the events of the first version of the timeline in more detail, such as what happened, who caused it, etc.

I did too. I was hoping for some ground hog day scenarios. Watching them fail a time or two, then changing something specific to save the day.

 

[Charlatan]

For whatever reason Enoch believed Robin's prophecy and sent folks to the future, the actual events of Graviton absorbing Daisy and splitting the earth came after Enoch's actions

he sent some to the future. before the split. Fitz was in space but not yet frozen iirc. Maybe I need to go re-watch it but he spent a lot of time setting up things he'd need for the future on the Lighthouse later. He trained etc. now that timeline is gone. And unless Simmons is pregnant now it's an even huger paradox that Deke was even born in that timeline.

 

[Random490]

robin told her coulson was the key so may was in the same position as yoyo but different side. She closed the option by smashing the odium, same thing yoyo was trying to do by taking the serum.



Coulson agreed with yoyo gave the serum to daisy, loop broken.



they were both right.

Well I think it was implied that "Coulson putting the pieces together" was a lie. Robin seems apprehensive and felt like May was try trying to keep hope alive and her "daughter" calm while predicting her own death. At least that's how I saw it.

The whole argument was based on whether you should follow your head or your heart. Yoyo was the head while May and Daisy were the heart.

It's implied the loop went on for a while and the only thing that changed, from what I can tell, was future Yoyo's message. Robin, like Doctor Manhattan, is a puppet to time she cannot seem to change anything so everything she does is in service to the loop. Future Yoyo says she's been there before and have heard a different message knowing it wouldn't work instead creates a new one, she's the only character that can reliably do that, conscientiously say something different. Still not sure how that ripple effects to Coulson deciding to stow away the serum, maybe hearing Yoyo's message changes the thought process. That originally the serum was still on the plane when he collapsed in the previous loop.

 

[Dark Raven]

The finale was a bit underwhelming. And isn't the Odium meant to make someone crazy? How come it didn't have that effect on Daisy?

I was also hoping we'd see the same scene of Daisy seemingly cracking open the earth but reinterpreting it this time as if we didn't have the full picture. Maybe that footage of her was actually her saving the earth. But they didn't revisit that.

I was also hoping for an ending more in line with Infinity War. How did they have time to create a memorial plaque for Coulson and take him to Tahiti with all that was going on? Suddenly the time doesn't seem to match.

Fitz dying was rather unexpected. Jemma seemed to get over his death pretty quickly though. How much time was supposed to have passed?

 

[Hotwire]

Why did this season not end with the finger snap? Missed opportunity.

 

[SPO2 Dalisay]

The finale was a bit underwhelming. And isn't the Odium meant to make someone crazy? How come it didn't have that effect on Daisy?

I was also hoping we'd see the same scene of Daisy seemingly cracking open the earth but reinterpreting it this time as if we didn't have the full picture. Maybe that footage of her was actually her saving the earth. But they didn't revisit that.

I was also hoping for an ending more in line with Infinity War. How did they have time to create a memorial plaque for Coulson and take him to Tahiti with all that was going on? Suddenly the time doesn't seem to match.

Fitz dying was rather unexpected. Jemma seemed to get over his death pretty quickly though. How much time was supposed to have passed?

It wasn't the odium, Agent May wasted the odium on the floor to prevent the plan of using the centipede with it on Graviton to leave the only option to use the centipede with Jaiying's genetic material on Coulson. Then there was Leopold taking the vial and telling the others they should prepare for the end of the world.So Daisy took the hot shot of centipede when Graviton was in the process of absorbing her.

While the Infinity War timeline has been argued by fans was it days or hours from

Spoiler

New York to the snapture

the Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. timeline goes towards or beyond the higher end of those arguments. For the record I was already arguing days before seeing the concurrent TV episodes

How long it took Jemma to go from Mac given her a death notification to remembering that Enoch had Fitz on the long road to the future? It couldn't have been long at all given the Infinity War is a concurrent event with AoS since Talbot became Graviton.

 

[Heretic]

As many problems as I had with this season and episode...I dont mind the lack of a tie in with Avengers 3. The show won't return until after that ending is undone by the next film...so it makes no sense to end a season on a cliffhanger that would either derail the next season (if it started before Avengers 4 came out) or would be undone before the next season even starts (as it appears to be).

 

[X-Ray]

Glad to hear that final season will pretty much be doing it's own thing apart from the MCU. Really disappointed that other than a name drop that Infinity War had no affect on the season.

I liked that Daisy came to her senses and realized that she sucks as leader.

Hopefully that's truely it for Coulson and May. Honestly, he's the only real connection between this series and the MCU. If they want to move on. He needs to go. As for May. No Coulson, no May. It's that simple.

Coulson will die but actually in Tahiti this time.

Fitz is still in cryosleep in space. Remember, the whole gang went back in time so Fitz is still in his slumber, somewhere in space. Season 6 will be them trying to find him, probably. Enoch is probably still alive with him too.

Oh, forgot about that. No wonder nothing came up while searching if the actor was exiting the series.

 

[Heretic]

When May's leg was seriously injured early in the season, there was a mention that she would never be the same. IN recent episodes, she has fought as if the injury never happened (even...idiotically...not bothering to take a gun to the "lets try to save the Earth" fight). For me, they should have made some sort of mention of...like, due to nerve or muscle damage or whatever, she had to retire.

 

[Dark Raven]

What's supposed to have happened in the original timeline? Did Daisy quake the earth apart? Did Graviton absorb Daisy and quake it apart? Or did Graviton destroy it all on his own? I wish the explained that so that we could see what happened differently this time.

The footage of Daisy before suggested that she was the one who quaked the earth apart. She was the last one seen before that happened. How could no-one have even filmed Graviton, considering he was such a destructive force in Chicago and they were battling him? Why is there no record of him doing that?

 

[Guard82]

That finale was amazing! I can't believe how much emotion and action they put into it. It was quite a thrilling ride.

What's supposed to have happened in the original timeline? Did Daisy quake the earth apart? Did Graviton absorb Daisy and quake it apart? Or did Graviton destroy it all on his own? I wish the explained that so that we could see what happened differently this time.

The footage of Daisy before suggested that she was the one who quaked the earth apart. She was the last one seen before that happened. How could no-one have even filmed Graviton, considering he was such a destructive force in Chicago and they were battling him? Why is there no record of him doing that?

The Kree probably destroyed those records. It was established that in the bad future, the Kree destroyed many of Earth's historical records so that humans would forget about their history and heritage, which made them easier for the Kree to control.

In the future, Deke and others mentioned that since the Kree wiped out most of Earth's historical records, only bits and pieces of Earth's history survived, with many people remembering the details of history differently. Presumably, humans who lived 90 years in the future had forgotten about Graviton and other details of the Earth's destruction, and only remembered the part about Daisy because of that news footage of her that survived. The Kree had probably forgotten the true record by then as well, because they too seemed to genuinely think Daisy was the sole cause of Earth's destruction.

So basically, the legend of Daisy as the Destroyer of Worlds became so ingrained in everyone's minds 90 years later that humans and Kree alike chose to assume that this was how it had happened, because there were no accurate historical records to contradict the legend.

 

[SPO2 Dalisay]

What's supposed to have happened in the original timeline? Did Daisy quake the earth apart? Did Graviton absorb Daisy and quake it apart? Or did Graviton destroy it all on his own? I wish the explained that so that we could see what happened differently this time.

The footage of Daisy before suggested that she was the one who quaked the earth apart. She was the last one seen before that happened. How could no-one have even filmed Graviton, considering he was such a destructive force in Chicago and they were battling him? Why is there no record of him doing that?

I would go back to the Lighthouse threads and give the same explanation, marketing. Like back in season 1 when Coulson got worried about Scorch, with oh no he choose a name.

Only the comic book reader who was a viewer knew "Graviton" to others he was just a guy with powers in Chicago that no other survivor except the SHIELD agents and maybe a few taken from that site knew about. Daisy, make that Quake, due to her rebel days and Director Mace holding news conferences with her was arguably the world's most known Inhuman. And she had a power set that could arguably expain what happened. Only she and SHEILD knew she was in no way powerful enough to do it so the legend around her as the destroyer of world's grew as oppose to some guy with a goatee and weird clothes.

I would guess that in the time loop before it was broken Daisy went in alone and got absorbed by Talbot not being seen again and while mining for more gravitonium the world cracked. With the boost from the centipede Daisy was able to defeat Talbot and a few days later as Coulson and May went to Taihiti

Spoiler

the armies of Thanos were attacking Wakanda. Understand this story suggest that Infinity War took place over days and not hours

.

 

[Dark Raven]

I wish they arrived at the point of Daisy battling Graviton earlier in the season. They could've shown what happened when it went wrong and the earth was destroyed. Then they could've shown the whole thing happening again (of course fast forwarded through all of the earlier parts) and now how they would have to do something different to change events.

I would've liked to have seen what would've happened if Graviton did crack the earth apart. Would he have died or survived? And if he survived, would he still have considered himself the hero after killing everyone on earth?

And was there some version of events where everything happened as it did in Infinity War only for Talbot to destroy everything and prevent there even being an Avengers 4?

 

[Random490]

I wish they arrived at the point of Daisy battling Graviton earlier in the season. They could've shown what happened when it went wrong and the earth was destroyed. Then they could've shown the whole thing happening again (of course fast forwarded through all of the earlier parts) and now how they would have to do something different to change events.

I would've liked to have seen what would've happened if Graviton did crack the earth apart. Would he have died or survived? And if he survived, would he still have considered himself the hero after killing everyone on earth?

And was there some version of events where everything happened as it did in Infinity War only for Talbot to destroy everything and prevent there even being an Avengers 4?

I thought the final episode was going to have a montage like in the Doctor Who episode "Heaven Sent".

There are only two version of events one in which the Earth is Destroyed and the other where Coulson retires then Avengers 4 happens. The end of Infinity War could still have happened in some fashion, we know that Earth wasn't abandoned overnight.[BLACKOUT] Thanos could have still recovered the mind stone, perform the snap. Since the only survivors are ones who made it to the lighthouse, which would be much less than half of what was left of humanity, it's not inconceivable.[/BLACKOUT] Plus just because everyone else doesn't mention it 70 years later doesn't necessarily mean it didn't happen.

 

[SPO2 Dalisay]

I guess that Thanos being successful, after Graviton won over SHIELD or more precisely caused an accident after Daisy got absorbed by him would be like looking at a car crashing into the remains of a crashed B777 full of hundreds of dead passengers.

The world's survivors would remember the plane crash, in this example Graviton thought to be Quake Destroyer of World's because she was already famous and her power set seemed to fit what happened. And the stories told would forget the car that crashed into the crash, Thanos as the Zephyr and Lighthouse SHIELD Agents got who they could into the Lighthouse lifeboat for humanity when the gravity storms started happening.

Still it is hard to fit a memorial/retirement ceremony and flight to Tahiti into the timeline.

 

[Panacea]

The finale was a bit underwhelming. And isn't the Odium meant to make someone crazy? How come it didn't have that effect on Daisy?

Because she never took the Odium.

Fitz dying was rather unexpected. Jemma seemed to get over his death pretty quickly though. How much time was supposed to have passed?

We don't know how much time passed either here or in Infinity War, though depending on what happens in Avengers Four it might not matter.

Why did this season not end with the finger snap?

Because the writers almost certainly would not have known about it. Although again, it might not end up being part of the final timeline if there's some time travel shenanigans in Avengers Four.